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Old
12-09-2009, 09:34 AM
  #26
BringBackStevens
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
No real factual evidence? Do you expect the Flyers to release a statement saying that Richards and Carter are party animals and Pronger is getting hell for whipping these boys into shape?

It's obvious they are holding back during these interviews. It's obvious to me something is up based on what questions Pronger completely bypasses.

If you disagree with me, whatever. Just watch the interviews and tell me you don't think something is up in the locker room.
I watched the interviews. It looks like things are tight because they aren't winning. So what. That doesn't mean there are inherently deep problems circulating.

And usually, if you form an opinion there is at least some evidence backing it up, and I don't count a hockey player delivering awkward interviews and your wild interpretations of such as any sort of evidence

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12-09-2009, 09:48 AM
  #27
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I'll always respect JR, but in this case, he is probably speculating just like the rest of us. I'd love it if the Flyers brought him back in some capacity. Official media liaison? Player entertainer?

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Old
12-09-2009, 09:49 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
I'll always respect JR, but in this case, he is probably speculating just like the rest of us. I'd love it if the Flyers brought him back in some capacity. Official media liaison? Player entertainer?
I somehow doubt JR is interested in spending that much time in Philly. Sounds like he's got some pretty good digs in PHX.

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Old
12-09-2009, 09:49 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
I watched the interviews. It looks like things are tight because they aren't winning. So what. That doesn't mean there are inherently deep problems circulating.

And usually, if you form an opinion there is at least some evidence backing it up, and I don't count a hockey player delivering awkward interviews and your wild interpretations of such as any sort of evidence
I feel the players make it obvious. Obvious is a term that is subjective. If there was hard evidence, it would be factual. Factual is objective.

I asked if anyone else noticed the same thing. Obviously you don't. Why dont you get off my **** about it after disagreeing with me. I personally do not care what you "count as evidence for my wild interpretations."

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Old
12-09-2009, 09:55 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
I feel the players make it obvious. Obvious is a term that is subjective. If there was hard evidence, it would be factual. Factual is objective.

I asked if anyone else noticed the same thing. Obviously you don't. Why dont you get off my **** about it after disagreeing with me. I personally do not care what you "count as evidence for my wild interpretations."
I'm discussing your opinion on a hockey message board. Don't get in a fit about it

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Old
12-09-2009, 09:57 AM
  #31
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I love JR, but he's an idiot.

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Old
12-09-2009, 10:59 AM
  #32
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Love JR. Not so sure about his statements here. May or may not be true, only way any of us could know would be to be in the locker room. Wolfy, maybe your love affair with OKT can come in handy here and you could find out if there is a rift between players or something.

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Old
12-09-2009, 04:55 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Wolfy, maybe your love affair with OKT can come in handy here and you could find out if there is a rift between players or something.


You know he's not actually friends with the guy though, in spite of his claims otherwise. Or if he is, sucks to be OKT, cuz it'd be creepy as hell to have one of your friends be that obsessed with you.


As for the JR comments...some people are the type of people that like to definitively answer a question when it's asked of them, whether they have any business doing so or not. Rather than give a more logical answer like, "Well, geez it's pretty tough for anyone outside of the organization to really know what's going on," JR is the type of guy that wants to come up with a reason, and then run with it. Diarrhea of the mouth for sure.

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Old
12-09-2009, 07:42 PM
  #34
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the reason they are awkward is because these are the only questions that arent leading... take a good listen to some normal questions given to the players. their all softball.... its the hard questions they freeze up like a deer in headlights over.

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Old
12-09-2009, 07:51 PM
  #35
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About a month ago my buddy saw Hartnell,Asham,Giroux,Carcillo,and Emery at the Mad River downtown, so it's not like it's just Richards,Carter,and Hartnell going out and getting wasted. What do you expect professional sports athletes to do when they live in or around a major city. I seriously think all the locker room turmoil is fabricated crap from the media. You have to blame something when a talented team starts playing horrible. I think they just blew up what Pronger said about Richards not asking him for help, and ran with it.

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Old
12-09-2009, 08:10 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Seriously? I think it's blatantly obvious that there are SERIOUS problems in the locker room, and I suspect the divide is between Pronger and the young guys.

Can anyone else see that? Or is it just me and JR?
I see it too. I've been saying for a while that there is a major problem in the locker room. I've seen those guys around a lot, Phillies games, Eagles games and in the city, and its always the same guys. Pretty much every time I see them its Carter, Richards, Hartnell, and Emery and a lot of times Carcillo. Don't think Hartnell doesnt party because he's married. coughTigerCough. Hartnell constantly has girls hanging all over him and he makes it very knwn that he likes taking pictures with hot girls. By the comments that Pronger made, to me it made it clear thathe feels that there is nothing he cane do until Richards takes control since he is part of the cliche we are talking about. Also Homer coming out in the offseason saying that the partying is something that has to be end. I dont know how many comments you need until you see that these guys are not a "team" that is going to go to war together. Teams can win off of pure talent but when a team will not battle for the guys inside their own locker room you will not win in the long run. If this team was close, there no way they would be in a skid like this. They simply do not care sometimes and when you love every guy on your team you dont take a game off because you dont want to let down those guys you love. I've played on teams that maybe players dont hate each other but certain players seclude themselves from the rest of the team, almost like "we're cooler than you" and that **** does not fly. It kills a team, its killed every team Ive seen it in and this is not different. JR has been around a long time and I trust his opinion much more than a bunch of people on a message board. Players around the league know each other, have friends on other teams and they all know when there are internal issues on another team.

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Old
12-09-2009, 08:30 PM
  #37
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This locker room needs Ray Lewis.

I bet Pronger is feeling very uncomfortable, coming in as a legit HOFer, and being put into the position of having to babysit the young core.

If you see Pronger start to sour on playing in Philly, I'd put money on him standing up for what is right in the locker room, only to get people turning against him for being a pro on and off the ice.

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Old
12-09-2009, 08:39 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clyde Donovan View Post
About a month ago my buddy saw Hartnell,Asham,Giroux,Carcillo,and Emery at the Mad River downtown, so it's not like it's just Richards,Carter,and Hartnell going out and getting wasted.
Anyone who says that drinking is the problem (or even a symptom of the problem) is off the mark.

Most of the agony came from last year's crash landing through the end of the season. They were falling apart, game by game, culminating in the humiliation against the Rangers in game 82.

And, after each disappointment, you could turn on Comcast for a post game where each young star would murmur "One game at a time...", slip on some chancletas, and walk out into the spring night with a dufflebag and a self-satisfied smirk.

As for the problem in this year's stumble, I have no clue. I've watched 1 game and I'm not even sure who's on the roster at this point.

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Old
12-09-2009, 08:41 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
This locker room needs Ray Lewis.

I bet Pronger is feeling very uncomfortable, coming in as a legit HOFer, and being put into the position of having to babysit the young core.

If you see Pronger start to sour on playing in Philly, I'd put money on him standing up for what is right in the locker room, only to get people turning against him for being a pro on and off the ice.
This.

Also, this would never happen if Brian Dawkins was here.

Just saying.

Regards,
Rick

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Old
12-09-2009, 10:28 PM
  #40
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JR should un-retire, sign a deal with us, and then he can experience the locker room first hand.

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Old
12-10-2009, 09:22 AM
  #41
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Pronger's no angel either. On past teams (I heard especially on Edmonton) he was a party animal, would tear up the tail on road trips. IF he's not partying right now, it's because he doesn't have a group to go out with, but he is not above the whole scene.

I love Pronger and think he's a pro, but don't think he's above going out getting smashed and wheeling.

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Old
12-10-2009, 09:35 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersCup08 View Post
Pronger's no angel either. On past teams (I heard especially on Edmonton) he was a party animal, would tear up the tail on road trips. IF he's not partying right now, it's because he doesn't have a group to go out with, but he is not above the whole scene.

I love Pronger and think he's a pro, but don't think he's above going out getting smashed and wheeling.
Everybody likes to party. Everyone does party. That is not the problem on this team (or any other, for that matter). I don't know for sure because I don't really pay attention to other team's off ice happenings, but I would bet lots of money that there are a group of "party animals" on every team in the league. A lot of the guys in the league are at an age (21-26) where partying is what they are going to do whether they are pro hockey players or not. As long as they aren't skipping practice or games because of it, who cares? Mike Richards partying on a Friday night when he has a game at seven o'clock the next night is not an issue. If the game was at seven in the morning, that might be a problem, but he's a grown man and going out the night before a game is not going to affect his play.

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Old
12-10-2009, 10:47 AM
  #43
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It's quite the situation in Philadelphia. With that being said, these are young men who are millionaires, fairly good looking, single and living in a large city. I'd be more worried if they weren't going out and were just staying indoors.

What's also clear is that there seems to be a disconnect again in the locker room. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out, especially in recent interviews. You can see the look of frustration setting in on guys like Pronger and Laperriere and that guys like Richards and Carter seem to be kind of nonchalant about things.

I'm also getting the impression that maybe, just maybe, Richards is beginning to feel the pressure of being captain in Philadelphia and that there's a bit of a struggle to decide whether to give up the C or not. If he gives it up, will he be viewed as a failure or quitter?

I also think that maybe this is a situation where management and the coaching staff should get onboard and maybe make the decision for Mike. If he doesn't have the C on his shirt, maybe he becomes a better player (if that's possible) and he can focus solely on the game.

One thing is for certain though. This hockey franchise seems to play it's best hockey when there's some sort of turmoil going on. Maybe they just need a good controversy to get everyone back on the same page. It's happened before in the past and worked.

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Old
12-10-2009, 11:00 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Everybody likes to party. Everyone does party. That is not the problem on this team (or any other, for that matter). I don't know for sure because I don't really pay attention to other team's off ice happenings, but I would bet lots of money that there are a group of "party animals" on every team in the league. A lot of the guys in the league are at an age (21-26) where partying is what they are going to do whether they are pro hockey players or not. As long as they aren't skipping practice or games because of it, who cares? Mike Richards partying on a Friday night when he has a game at seven o'clock the next night is not an issue. If the game was at seven in the morning, that might be a problem, but he's a grown man and going out the night before a game is not going to affect his play.
Everyone's different, but when I go out the night before a game, I don't play nearly as well. Granted, when I drink I don't enjoy having two beers, I usually get sloshed.

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Old
12-10-2009, 11:21 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Everyone's different, but when I go out the night before a game, I don't play nearly as well. Granted, when I drink I don't enjoy having two beers, I usually get sloshed.
It all depends on the amount of time you have to prepare for a game the next day. I don't know how an NHL players schedule works, but I would assume Mike Richards (just using him as an example) could sleep until 1 in the afternoon if he felt like it on game day if there were no morning skates or anything like that. I have been known to get pretty tanked and I can usually sleep it off and be fine by noonish. But like you said, everyone is different. Mike Richards (again, just an example) might be able to do that whereas Matt Carle (just an example) might be still terribly hungover the next night and play like crap. Judging by the way the team plays, I wouldn't put too much stock in the partying being an issue. When they start missing games or throwing up on the ice because of it, then it is a problem. Until then, look elsewhere to find what ails this team.

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Old
12-10-2009, 11:50 AM
  #46
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i hate to say it but it goes back to upshall and to a lesser extent lupul and umburger. i think to a large part richards is an idealist. he plays hard because he knows and likes the guys on his team they look to him because hes the type of guy who cares about his teammates and they respect him because hes sincere about it. in the cynical and jaded business of sports sincerity isnt something you see often. so here you have a captain who legitimately cares about the guys he plays with and then half of the core group changes.

in comes a group of older veterans and while he could easily stick upshall or loops on grenade jumper duty if they fell into the coaches doghouse these new guys arent even interested in going out. so while hes waiting to try and figure these things out how to handle the new players and how to get the veterans to buy in the goalies gets hurt and teh coach gets canned.

i think basicly richie was feeling insecure and unsure about how to get the new team to love him and pronger came to him and said well just need to listen worry about love later. instead of trying to make the new team the old team just go out and play and let the vets follow your lead.

100% supposition from my previous time watching the team and a certain amount of experience with organisational dynamics take it for what its worth

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Old
12-10-2009, 12:07 PM
  #47
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Maybe its not just Pronger trying to ride the younger players, maybe Laperriere has come in and has been asked to try and keep the young kids from the "partying scene".
I dont have a problem with guys drinking, but as they say when its time to go to work, its time to go to work. If getting wrecked the night before or after hockey games starts to affect your physcial and mental preperation for the game its time for a change.
anyone who thinks there could not be friction or division in the Flyers lockerroom over any issue including partying is naive

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Old
12-10-2009, 12:25 PM
  #48
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Maybe its not just Pronger trying to ride the younger players, maybe Laperriere has come in and has been asked to try and keep the young kids from the "partying scene".
I dont have a problem with guys drinking, but as they say when its time to go to work, its time to go to work. If getting wrecked the night before or after hockey games starts to affect your physcial and mental preperation for the game its time for a change.
anyone who thinks there could not be friction or division in the Flyers lockerroom over any issue including partying is naive
the only time ive seen a reasonable case for that was last year against calgary and the fact they wanted to have one last night out with thier friend and teammate more than they wanted to win a non confernance non division game right after the deadline to me says good things about who this team is.

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Old
12-11-2009, 06:29 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
This locker room needs Ray Lewis.

I bet Pronger is feeling very uncomfortable, coming in as a legit HOFer, and being put into the position of having to babysit the young core.

If you see Pronger start to sour on playing in Philly, I'd put money on him standing up for what is right in the locker room, only to get people turning against him for being a pro on and off the ice.
While Pronger is an outstanding hockey player he is somewhat of a ****** of a person. He has had more than his fair share of off ice issues, so I would think he would be the last one anyone listens too about that kind of stuff.

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Old
12-11-2009, 06:47 AM
  #50
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Locker room turmoil or not, there's nothing a team all on the same page can't cure.

I have no problems with partying and drinking. I have huge issues with a divided locker room.

If these rumors are true, though I really suspect that they're not with the media's tendency to blow things way out of proportion, then it's just a bigger testament to the lack of control Stevens had over the locker room.

This is why Laviolette was brought in. Let things run their course, and let JR speculate all he wants.

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