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King can't save flat Rangers

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Old
12-10-2009, 09:26 AM
  #26
BroadwayBlues
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
He's got more talent than Renney had last season.
True but it just looks like one of those years where the Callahan's Higgins Kotalik's Staal's Avery's... of the worlds are having bad years.
And then you have players like Lisin who just aren't that good imo. Team is filled with a bunch of 3rd liners.

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12-10-2009, 09:27 AM
  #27
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With the effort Hank displayed last night, it sickens me to see three blackhawks in the crease hammering away for the tying goal, and no body pays the price? How is it that nobody take offense to that and buries one of those guys, nothing.
Honestly, are you really stunned that Boyle and Gilroy were just overwhelmed by Hossa, Kane and Toews? We all wanted to see these rookies get this experience, and this is the way it's going to go some nights. Now, you take the tape, sit them down and tell them what they're doing wrong.

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12-10-2009, 09:27 AM
  #28
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Why is this so hard? Drury Redden and Rozy= $18 mill in cap space. You can't compete when everyone else uses that space for players that can actually play...

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12-10-2009, 09:32 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
Yeah and we know where Renney ended up. Plus Renney at least had a couple more Vets playing D.

Either way this team is built like a pile of feces. We need a proper rebuild. We have some good young talent. We have two stars on our team. A very promising young defenseman, and hopefully some good players in pipeline. We need to get rid of all the excess garbage and go from there. Tank this year, get a top 3 pick, get rid of Captain Cash, Blowzital, and Dredden, and go from there.

Yeah.

This is actually a very young team. They're just not a very talented young team.
They don't need to bad for years to become good cause the farm is pretty good. Just one really bad year.
Imagine Hall and Gaborik on the same line next year.

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12-10-2009, 09:33 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Honestly, are you really stunned that Boyle and Gilroy were just overwhelmed by Hossa, Kane and Toews? We all wanted to see these rookies get this experience, and this is the way it's going to go some nights. Now, you take the tape, sit them down and tell them what they're doing wrong.
You can be overwhelmed by their talent, but all it takes is a little passion and fire to prevent them from attacking and getting so many whacks on henrik for that tying goal. You can't teach passion!

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12-10-2009, 09:35 AM
  #31
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Yep, I could deal with one bad year if it means many good years to come.

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12-10-2009, 09:35 AM
  #32
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Trade Hank for Kovalchuk. lol

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12-10-2009, 09:35 AM
  #33
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Does Torts really have more talent though? That's arguable, and even then, Renney didn't have 4 rookies playing for the team. Talented as they may be, that's still 4 more rookies than Renney had playing for him

But who cares about Renney anyway? He was fired and he's not coming back to here. Can't people criticize Tortorella without mentioning Renney all the time? Renney is not Mike Babcock, he wouldn't have saved this team either

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12-10-2009, 09:35 AM
  #34
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There was an interesting quote from Lundqvist three games ago in which he said he was going to put all his focus on his job and stop worrying about the Rangers' lack of offense and defensive breakdowns.

At least for these three games he's maintained his focus and looked like an elite goalie again.

We'd be nuts to trade him.

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12-10-2009, 09:36 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by pwoz View Post
Trade Hank for Kovalchuk. lol
Is that really your solution? Hank is arguably the most valuable player on this team. He isn't going anywhere.

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Old
12-10-2009, 09:38 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss2leetch View Post
You can be overwhelmed by their talent, but all it takes is a little passion and fire to prevent them from attacking and getting so many whacks on henrik for that tying goal.
I don't really doubt THEIR passion. One the one hand, I'm questioning if these are the players I want killing a penalty with 6:00 to go in a 1-0 game against a dynamic PP. On the other, I'm questioning if the instructions to he PK'ers are to clean house in the crease, because I haven't seen anyone in a blueshirt do it this season, rookie or veteran.

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12-10-2009, 09:38 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
Does Torts really have more talent though? That's arguable, and even then, Renney didn't have 4 rookies playing for the team. Talented as they may be, that's still 4 more rookies than Renney had playing for him

But who cares about Renney anyway? He was fired and he's not coming back to here. Can't people criticize Tortorella without mentioning Renney all the time? Renney is not Mike Babcock, he wouldn't have saved this team either
I don't care if they're rookies they're more talented and better than the players Renney had last season.

And Renney will stop being mentioned when people will start admitting that the problems were bigger than Renney. All we heard was Renney was holding back talent with his system. Seemingly replacing Renney would solve those problems. And it hasn't.

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12-10-2009, 09:40 AM
  #38
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People tend to forget that this team wouldn't have made the playoffs last year had Renney still been coach. Renney wasn't superman, I'll tell you that much. However, it is true that the problems weren't all Renney's. Yes this is true. However, Renney's success largely rested on Jagr & Lundqvist. Once Jagr was gone, Renney's doom was imminent. Renney's system was good for a player like Jagr, because he was the kind who would like to slow the game down and do his thing. With a player like Gaborik, I'm not sure he would have fit into such as a system as well.

I mean we can say that Gaborik & Prospal > Gomez & Zherdev
However, after that, there really isn't much of a difference. More experience on defense last year. Plus the secondary scoring was actually a bit better last year. Callahan in a contract year, Dubinsky in a contract year, Antripov played well for us (contract year). Drury didn't suck as much.

To me the teams are virtually the same and it's like they're back to where they left off when Renney was fired even with a different coach and mostly different roster.

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12-10-2009, 09:43 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Honestly, are you really stunned that Boyle and Gilroy were just overwhelmed by Hossa, Kane and Toews? We all wanted to see these rookies get this experience, and this is the way it's going to go some nights. Now, you take the tape, sit them down and tell them what they're doing wrong.
How about our 6.5 million Norris paid defensemen, Waste Redden.

At least Gilroy and Boyle were trying. He was standing behind the net just looking.

Until Sather is removed entirely from this organization...the Rangers will be bottom dwellers and bottom feeders.

I would lose 60 games a year if this team was all kids...but we have garbage veterans who have no heart.

Dont blame the kids for what is happening.

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Old
12-10-2009, 09:43 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
People tend to forget that this team wouldn't have made the playoffs last year had Renney still been coach. Renney wasn't superman, I'll tell you that much.
We don't know that. Right now, this team isn't going to make the playoffs with Torts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
I mean we can say that Gaborik & Prospal > Gomez & Zherdev
We can say it? No, it is it. Gaborik alone makes the difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
To me the teams are virtually the same and it's like they're back to where they left off when Renney was fired even with a different coach and mostly different roster.
If they are virtually the same, then last year wasn't Renney's fault. And Torts isn't doing a good job.

We at least saw what Renney could do with Hank and one elite forward.

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Old
12-10-2009, 09:44 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't care if they're rookies they're more talented and better than the players Renney had last season.

And Renney will stop being mentioned when people will start admitting that the problems were bigger than Renney. All we heard was Renney was holding back talent with his system. Seemingly replacing Renney would solve those problems. And it hasn't.
Completely agree.

I thought firing Renney was the right move, because I feel as though we went as far as we could with him at the helm, however, the real culprit is Glen Sather.

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12-10-2009, 09:46 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't care if they're rookies they're more talented and better than the players Renney had last season.

And Renney will stop being mentioned when people will start admitting that the problems were bigger than Renney. All we heard was Renney was holding back talent with his system. Seemingly replacing Renney would solve those problems. And it hasn't.
Keeping Renney wouldn't have solved the problems either

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12-10-2009, 09:48 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
We don't know that. Right now, this team isn't going to make the playoffs with Torts.



We can say it? No, it is it. Gaborik alone makes the difference.



If they are virtually the same, then last year wasn't Renney's fault. And Torts isn't doing a good job.

We at least saw what Renney could do with Hank and one elite forward.
Last year's team quit on Renney. Whether that's "his fault" or not is not for me to say as I wasn't in the locker room. However, that's enough to remove the coach.

Whether Tortorella was the right man for the job remains to be seen, however, he was the right man at the time to give the team a swift kick in the nuts to make the playoffs. I personally would have preferred Laviolette, but I was satisfied with Tortorella at the time.

I agree, that at this point Tortorella is not doing a good job with what he has. We shouldn't be THIS bad.

I think that the main issue lays on Sather, but unfortunately we're stuck with Mr. GM For Life for a while.

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12-10-2009, 09:48 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
Keeping Renney wouldn't have solved the problems either
Maybe not. I'll go with the guy who made the playoffs every season since the lockout and who still had a team that was a playoff team when he was dismissed.

The fact is, this team is playing a lot like a Renney team just without the winning part.

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12-10-2009, 09:49 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
Last year's team quit on Renney.
Has Torts ever had this team?

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12-10-2009, 09:51 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Maybe not. I'll go with the guy who made the playoffs every season since the lockout and who still had a team that was a playoff team when he was dismissed.

The fact is, this team is playing a lot like a Renney team just without the winning part.
That team was in a free fall last year.

Completely disingenuous to say they would've made the playoffs.

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12-10-2009, 09:52 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Has Torts ever had this team?
Maybe from February 25, 2009 to April 24, 2009 and then the beginning of this season until about 3/4 through October. Otherwise I question whether he "has" this team as well.

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12-10-2009, 09:53 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by BayAreaRanger View Post
That team was in a free fall last year.

Completely disingenuous to say they would've made the playoffs.
We have no way to know. If that was a free fall, what are we in now?

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12-10-2009, 09:53 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
People tend to forget that this team wouldn't have made the playoffs last year had Renney still been coach. Renney wasn't superman, I'll tell you that much. However, it is true that the problems weren't all Renney's. Yes this is true. However, Renney's success largely rested on Jagr & Lundqvist. Once Jagr was gone, Renney's doom was imminent. Renney's system was good for a player like Jagr, because he was the kind who would like to slow the game down and do his thing. With a player like Gaborik, I'm not sure he would have fit into such as a system as well.

I mean we can say that Gaborik & Prospal > Gomez & Zherdev
However, after that, there really isn't much of a difference. More experience on defense last year. Plus the secondary scoring was actually a bit better last year. Callahan in a contract year, Dubinsky in a contract year, Antripov played well for us (contract year). Drury didn't suck as much.

To me the teams are virtually the same and it's like they're back to where they left off when Renney was fired even with a different coach and mostly different roster.
The only constant seems to be bad GM, no real plan to put a complete team together. We do have some nice young talent. But different coaches and plugging a few new players here and there won't give us the team "we" are seeking.

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Old
12-10-2009, 09:55 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
We have no way to know. If that was a free fall, what are we in now?
Same S***, Different Year.

As I said, Tortorella was the right man to give the team a kick in the pants to make the playoffs. However, it seems that his magic has worn off.

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