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LONDON KNIGHTS vs. U MINNESOTA

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Old
12-15-2004, 06:36 PM
  #51
Papa Smurf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VOB
You would be in great error if you are taking that "impression" from this thread as to the actually quality of players between the NCAA and the CHL. Simply look at the past NHL entry draft lists over the past ten years. The CHL has always had more players drafted than the NCAA. Take a look at the best players in the NHL and you will see far more CHL alums than you will college grads. Take a look at the best players under 30 and you will still see a distinct CHL advantage.
So whats the deal with the whole "Minnesota will crush London, no doubt about it, the Knights don't have a chance!" thing?

Ok so I may be exaggerating that abit, but thats what quite a few people are saying. In different words of course.

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12-15-2004, 07:26 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by willie
You inferred that what he meant was that London had better alumni. (which was not was he was suggesting at all) He was suggesting "leveling the playing field" by allowing London to play graduates who are the same age as the Gophers current players. He was merely pointing out a hypothetical situation in which the game would be more competitive. (though I'm inclined to think London would beat Minnesota in such a situation)
And I was suggesting since Vanek and Ballard left early for the NHL (or AHL this year ) that that argument works on both sides. Therefore I was suggesting to throw it out completely. Now, back to boredom!

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12-15-2004, 07:38 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Kritty
Why does everyone equate age to being better? Just because a player is older it means nothing. Look at Crosby. Most would say he is arguably the top player under 20-21 range and he is only 17 right now. Yes, older players have advantages, but that should not be the sole reason why a team would win.
Yeah, a team of 17 year old Crosby's would skate rings around any NCAA team(lots more teams too).

That's one player though. Most aren't as good.

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12-15-2004, 10:52 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VOB
You would be in great error if you are taking that "impression" from this thread as to the actually quality of players between the NCAA and the CHL. Simply look at the past NHL entry draft lists over the past ten years. The CHL has always had more players drafted than the NCAA. Take a look at the best players in the NHL and you will see far more CHL alums than you will college grads. Take a look at the best players under 30 and you will still see a distinct CHL advantage.
I am not taking anything away from the CHL, cause obviously they produce the most NHL players, but I think looking at draft numbers is a little flawed since most NCAA players don't enter the draft because they would lose eligibilty to play. (Unless they enter before starting college....lots of dumb rules.....)

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12-15-2004, 11:03 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Plager05
That's one player though. Most aren't as good.
Most? Try all.

The kid is best junior aged player in the world.

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12-16-2004, 02:47 AM
  #56
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Two Very different Hockey Leauge's

First of all, its tough to compare these two leauges!! The NCAA has rosters with many players over 20 years old, and up to 24 or older! That in itself can be a huge factor! The CHL has a better chance of producing legitamate prospects because most kids enter the leauge as 16 or 17 year olds and play 70 games a season. These kids usually develop faster because many of the kids that can't make the CHL end up trying to obtain us scholarships. The partial world junior team just beat a CIAU team 6-3. To me this indicates that US college teams are on average stronger because they have less problems beating the CIAU. Its basically the same situation because your throwing a team together at christmas which is no different then having a US college team play them early in the season. Its tougher to get pionts in the college game aswell, an example would be matt pettinger who averaged .42 pionts a game in denver which rose to .74 when he joined the hitmen. He was also a star at the world junior tourny. Matt has also stated that the differnce he noticed was that the 3rd and 4th line players are stronger at college, but the top 2 lines were fairly equal. I'll give the slight advantage to the College teams, but only because they are older.

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12-16-2004, 02:59 AM
  #57
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The Draft means nothing

The draft does not mean much, unless you look at the ratio between being drafted and making the NHL. I'm sure the CHL will have a higher ratio, but calculate it from the last five years and I'm sure that the ratio will narrow. In saying that I would rather choose a kid from the CHL because chances are he has the ability to develop faster. This is based on the fact that they usually enter a very competative leauge at younger age, which is huge when you ask any scout!! How many Nhl stars come from us college verses the CHL would likley support this theory!!

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12-16-2004, 03:54 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeSuisReine
I am not taking anything away from the CHL, cause obviously they produce the most NHL players, but I think looking at draft numbers is a little flawed since most NCAA players don't enter the draft because they would lose eligibilty to play. (Unless they enter before starting college....lots of dumb rules.....)

NCAA bound players were not allowed to opt into the draft at the age of 18 but were drafted as 19 year olds instead. That rule was abolished two years ago and last year 18 year old players in the NCAA were also allowed to opt in.

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12-16-2004, 04:32 AM
  #59
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Why are people bringing the draft into question. No doubt CHL has more players then the NCAA drafted. We aren't debating which league has the best prospects. NHL teams would be crazy to draft equally talented player from the NCAA that is 22 compared to 18, the 18 year old 99 times out of 100 has more potential. That doesn't mean the 2nd round pick from the OHL is as good as the 22 year old undrafted college player. Thats my point. Age, maturity and size play a much bigger role then many people would think. A NCAA team no doubt has a bunch of 21 and 22 year olds that are more developed then the 17 year olds that the CHL would have. This is why a top college team would kill any CHL team.

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12-16-2004, 02:26 PM
  #60
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Have you seen that game!

What game? Ya exactly they haven't played eachother and likely never will, so we can't say dogS??t about who would kill who, althought I think your belief Would be accurate if they did!! We will never be able to say LOOK 7-1, heres are evidence? how else can you gage it!! You have to factor in what you can, so it is all about these intangibles. The Draft doesn't help you gage the current difference between the two leauges. IT doesn't have much to do with anything once you step on the Ice. Its just perception about an Individual, how often are they accurate???

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12-16-2004, 04:48 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
Why are people bringing the draft into question. No doubt CHL has more players then the NCAA drafted. We aren't debating which league has the best prospects. NHL teams would be crazy to draft equally talented player from the NCAA that is 22 compared to 18, the 18 year old 99 times out of 100 has more potential. That doesn't mean the 2nd round pick from the OHL is as good as the 22 year old undrafted college player. Thats my point. Age, maturity and size play a much bigger role then many people would think. A NCAA team no doubt has a bunch of 21 and 22 year olds that are more developed then the 17 year olds that the CHL would have. This is why a top college team would kill any CHL team.

You are right, its not a certainty that a 2nd round pick from the OHL will be a better player than an undrafted 22 year old NCAA player but the odds are that he will be a better player and many professional scouts reputations are on the line betting that very fact.

If you do not wish to compare the number of drafted players (which the CHL has a decided advantage) than compare the top talent in the NHL. How many CHL players were on Canada's world cup team compared to how many NCAA players were on the U.S.'s. Who won? Look at the young talent in the NHL (say players under 28), how many from the CHL compared to the NCAA? I think you will find the CHL with another clear advantage.

This is ample proof to dismiss the suggestions that the NCAA as a whole contains more talent than the CHL.

As to who would win between the Knights and the Gophs is another matter entirely but don't let the age thing fool you.

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12-16-2004, 07:11 PM
  #62
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Your Bang On

I agree, and mentioned the same thing in a previous post. These younger guys just develop faster and I'm sure the numbers would show this, just didn't want to take the time to prove what is so obvious.

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12-17-2004, 12:47 AM
  #63
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London

CHL is more toughness and London's team is in great Shape, they would outwork Minny in a hearbeat. To talented

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12-17-2004, 01:30 AM
  #64
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Interesting statement!

Obviously just an opion without much consideration to the cold hard facts, not saying I know who would win, but you cannot make a bold prediction like that without considering that they have yet to play eachother. All you can say is I THINK ? would win, with a little back up, but hey bias is welcome here if thats what you bring.

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12-17-2004, 01:45 AM
  #65
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fORGOT TO MENTION!

look at Greg Barber or Riley Nelsons stats from Hockeydb.com. Then take into consideration that in college hockey you only play 40 games! My piont is that us college hockey is one of the hardest leauges to produce pionts in! Why? Because every game means twice as much considering you play half a season, if anyone would outwork the other team, US college teams would definatly outwork a CHL Team. Not saying that Chl are not tough, but tough in a different way. Chl Teams usually have bigger teams, but definatly not physically stronger teams because of the age factor and the emphasis on strenth training in college. Playing half the amount of games gives College teams that much more time to work out. Question? Have you ever scrimaged against 17&18 year olds then played against men?

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12-17-2004, 02:18 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckerdomi
CHL is more toughness and London's team is in great Shape, they would outwork Minny in a hearbeat. To talented



we don't believe you you need more people

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12-17-2004, 04:45 PM
  #67
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Minnesota wouldn't even have to bring their sticks. They'd win by about 100, maybe 90ish if whoever the Knight's goalie is made about 200 saves.

I mean, really, do we have to have this retarded conversation again?


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Old
12-18-2004, 01:33 PM
  #68
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[QUOTE=Juan]
Your recounting of the NTDP's past is completely disingenuous. The tournament in Erie was played during the time period when the OHL teams each had their best 5-8 players at NHL training camps, either as draft picks or as free agent invites. The OHL stopped playing those games when it clued into the fact that it was in competition with the NTDP to recruit the best U.S. players.
QUOTE]

Does anyone have the scores from this tournament? Also, I remember there was supposed to be some "Molson American Challenge" back in around 99-2000, featuring the Texas Tornado (NAHL), Under-18's and a couple of OHL squads. Anyone know if this tourney took place?

Thanks everyone. I find these discussions fascinating...

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12-19-2004, 11:09 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
So a team like North Dakota who has:

Zajac
Stafford
Murray
Smaby
Schneider
Porter
Massen
Jones
Greene

All these players were drafted to the NHL.....plus they are much older then the potential draft picks playing for London. North Dakota isn't even the best team in the country.
Ahh.. I love someone who knows something about UND.. haha, very young this year. Not off to a very good start, lost to the US Team today. Oh well, inexperienced. I've met all of those guys BTW. Including Parise!

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Old
12-19-2004, 11:54 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkymoses
Minnesota wouldn't even have to bring their sticks. They'd win by about 100, maybe 90ish if whoever the Knight's goalie is made about 200 saves.

I mean, really, do we have to have this retarded conversation again?

That's probably true, too. Haha.

The US top college teams would just dismantle a CHL team.

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Old
12-21-2004, 03:02 PM
  #71
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what's to think about?

I remember a time where the usa ntdp U-18 team use to play a bunch of the ohl teams and if i remember correctly the scores were like 7-1 in favor of the USA boys. I think for a single ohl team, or chl team for that matter, to be placed against the USA U-18 is a joke, think about what college would be like. Now if you want to make an all star team of every chl team you may find a game if the chl team doesn't beat the **** out of each other first. Just my opinion. Seriously though the USA U-18 use to pound the ohl teams if u can find a place to look at those stats i'd love to be proven wrong but i'm afraid I can't be.

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12-21-2004, 03:41 PM
  #72
Juan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masked man
I remember a time where the usa ntdp U-18 team use to play a bunch of the ohl teams and if i remember correctly the scores were like 7-1 in favor of the USA boys. I think for a single ohl team, or chl team for that matter, to be placed against the USA U-18 is a joke, think about what college would be like. Now if you want to make an all star team of every chl team you may find a game if the chl team doesn't beat the **** out of each other first. Just my opinion. Seriously though the USA U-18 use to pound the ohl teams if u can find a place to look at those stats i'd love to be proven wrong but i'm afraid I can't be.
You might want to read the rest of a thread so that you don't post something that was already argued and dismissed a week ago.

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