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What's up with JVR?

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Old
12-11-2009, 12:37 PM
  #1
DUHockey9
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What's up with JVR?

I thought this deserved it's own thread. I've been pointing it out for about 3 games now...but JVR has looked completely lost for probably 7 or 8 games. Yes, the team has been completely lost in that time, but that doesn't mean every player has to be that way (see Briere looking like the only person to care at times).

The kid looks slow and stumbling. When he gets the puck he appears to have no confidence. He dumps it in, chases, throws a weak hit and more often than not ends up on the ice when he engages in a board battle. What happened to the confidence and puck control we saw earlier? Lately it seems as if he's never had posession of the puck for more than 2 seconds.

The kids is struggling big time. Anyone else agree? Or disagree?

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12-11-2009, 12:39 PM
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The entire team has been struggling, his line with Carts and Briere has easily been our best line over the past 10ish games, we've just been snakebitten as far as scoring goals, I don't think anyone was expecting him to keep up the PPG pace, he's doing a good job defensively, once we get the offense going again, the points will start coming.

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12-11-2009, 12:41 PM
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He's a rookie. It was bound to happen. You really didn't think he was going to come in and in his first season score a point per game? That just doesn't happen every year. Yes recently it has, but look over time, dudes don't come into the league and dominate every year the way the Crosbys and Malkins have in recent years. He'll probably wind up with 40-50 points and that will be fine for a rookie and he will no doubt build on that for years to come.

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12-11-2009, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
The entire team has been struggling, his line with Carts and Briere has easily been our best line over the past 10ish games, we've just been snakebitten as far as scoring goals, I don't think anyone was expecting him to keep up the PPG pace, he's doing a good job defensively, once we get the offense going again, the points will start coming.
I'm not even talking about points though. They HAVE been our best line but I think it's been despite JVR. He really has looked that bad to me. He's done literally nothing to contribute. He looks utterly lost.

You can look good without scoring any goals (like Briere has been). You can also look bad while scoring goals (like I believe JVR has even though his line has been our best).

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12-11-2009, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I'm not even talking about points though. They HAVE been our best line but I think it's been despite JVR. He really has looked that bad to me. He's done literally nothing to contribute. He looks utterly lost.

You can look good without scoring any goals (like Briere has been). You can also look bad while scoring goals (like I believe JVR has even though his line has been our best).
You can't have a line playing as well as that line has been doing with one of the guys on it dragging it down, it just doesn't happen.

JVR isn't a flashy player a lot, it's funny how much you are parroting the exact same criticism people had of him at the WJCs (when he set up Wilson for about 8 golden chances and Colin missed all of them). He's a rookie making the jump straight from school to the NHL, it's a pretty big step.

He's holding his own out there and helping to facilitate offense, I'm fine with him.

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12-11-2009, 12:48 PM
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im fine with him too. Hes a kid out of college making the transition and he is going to have his ups and downs.

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12-11-2009, 12:52 PM
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Maybe its the fact that hes playing against bigger, stronger, faster, more physical players at a higher level than he's used to. Lets also not forget he has already played as many games as he is used to in a full season and its only early December.

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12-11-2009, 01:02 PM
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I think you're all kind of missing what I'm saying. If he was setting up a Colin Wilson for 8 glorious chances, I'd see it. I'm not expecting him to be a PPG or anywhere close to it. Last year Giroux wasn't putting up points but looked like he belonged for the most part. JVR has literally done nothing for several games. None of his beatiful passes, confident puck control...nothing.

I'm not hating on the kid, just pointing out that he hasn't done ANY of the great things he was doing to begin the season.

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12-11-2009, 01:05 PM
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He's a rookie.

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12-11-2009, 01:09 PM
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I agree, he's looked pretty bad.

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12-11-2009, 01:11 PM
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I actually do agree also. I noticed it last game. He looks...lost... And its NOT his points, its his playing style. It just seems different then earlier in the season

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12-11-2009, 01:12 PM
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I have to agree. JVR is a very good young player capable of doing good things but just hasn't been doing any of it lately.

I think we're just seeing him come back down to earth. He was on a huge high after making the team and getting out to a good start, and having all the energy. Now we're starting to see the result of a grinding NHL schedule he's not used to, and people getting used to watching out for him.

He has been invisible lately. He hasn't been controlling the puck like he was or setting up anything beautiful. However, I think he'll be fine...I think he was bound to slow down eventually.

The Danny Boy line has been good solely because of Briere. Carts and JVR have had little to do with it.

I think it's just the middle of a team-wide slump, and the grind is catching him. JVR will be fine, he's just got to ride it out. Once the team as a whole starts scoring again, we'll see him get back into the mix.

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12-11-2009, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
He's a rookie.
So is Bartulis, Kalinski, Nodl, Laliberte. Giroux was last year. Just because you're a rookie doesn't mean you disappear. I would certainly expect rookies to go through point scoring slumps, but you can still look like you belong. JVR has not of late.

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12-11-2009, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
So is Bartulis, Kalinski, Nodl, Laliberte. Giroux was last year. Just because you're a rookie doesn't mean you disappear. I would certainly expect rookies to go through point scoring slumps, but you can still look like you belong. JVR has not of late.
Bartulis has done what? Played 12 minutes per night? Wow. Kalinski, Nodl, and Laliberte have done what? Played 3 games on the 4th line? Oh **** wow.

The funny thing is that if you go back to the prospect thread last year, I predicted this exact thing would happen. I drew the Carter comparison and said that because neither guy throws their body around, they're going to get bashed if they're not on pace for 40-goal seasons.

The funniest thing is that after his hot start, most people predicted that JVR would finish with 50-60 points, now he's on pace for 54 and he's still getting slammed even though he's +6 playing on a line where one of his linemates is -7.

It's sad how predictable this fanbase is sometimes.

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12-11-2009, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
So is Bartulis, Kalinski, Nodl, Laliberte. Giroux was last year. Just because you're a rookie doesn't mean you disappear. I would certainly expect rookies to go through point scoring slumps, but you can still look like you belong. JVR has not of late.
All those players spent some time playing semi-pro though, JVR made the leap in one giant step. Between the nagging injuries, the change in competition and more games played...JVR was bound to slow down.

The pace he was on was ridiculous, he'll be just fine. I'm not worried to much.

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12-11-2009, 01:24 PM
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JVR is 2nd in scoring. 5 pts behind Tavares.

What do you mean what is wrong with him?

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12-11-2009, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
So is Bartulis, Kalinski, Nodl, Laliberte. Giroux was last year. Just because you're a rookie doesn't mean you disappear. I would certainly expect rookies to go through point scoring slumps, but you can still look like you belong. JVR has not of late.
LMFAO@ comparing Kalinski and Nodl to JVR

I mean really. what the hell. Were you in the draft Kyle Turris camp back in 07?
I wonder where he is right now? Oh yeah averging less then half a point a game in the AHL.
btw Nodl still ****ing sucks.

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12-11-2009, 01:28 PM
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I reckon once Gagne returns it'll be 18/17/48/19/12/28 on the top two lines and JVR will sink to a more appropriate third line role.

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12-11-2009, 01:32 PM
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I wouldnt have a problem with JVR on the 3rd line.
Hopefully Gagne gets back healthy and stays there, I would think if we are still struggling offensively with Gagne back I would think there may be a trade.

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12-11-2009, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Bartulis has done what? Played 12 minutes per night? Wow. Kalinski, Nodl, and Laliberte have done what? Played 3 games on the 4th line? Oh **** wow.

The funny thing is that if you go back to the prospect thread last year, I predicted this exact thing would happen. I drew the Carter comparison and said that because neither guy throws their body around, they're going to get bashed if they're not on pace for 40-goal seasons.

The funniest thing is that after his hot start, most people predicted that JVR would finish with 50-60 points, now he's on pace for 54 and he's still getting slammed even though he's +6 playing on a line where one of his linemates is -7.

It's sad how predictable this fanbase is sometimes.
Yea so? JVR is playing 13 a night. All I'm saying is AS OF LATE guys like Bartulis and others LOOK LIKE they belong. He is contributing. JVR has looked lost.

Don't lump me in with a fanbase and call me predictable. I don't believe I've ever made such a prediction about JVR putting up 50 or 60 points.

THIS ISN'T ABOUT POINTS! To expect him to play the way he started for an entire year is utterly absurd. He simply isn't doing the other important things he did before. Making beautiful passes, controlling the puck, simply looking confident.

What I'm talking about is not quantifiable in the slightest bit! You can tell when a player is struggling by HOW they are playing. Ryan Parent, often times when he has the puck looks like a scared puppy, makes a rash decision, fumbles the puck or just ices it. At times he has lapses in confidence and overthinks or makes a rash decision. This cannot be quantified. At other times, Parent looks fine. JVR at the beginning of the year looked like he 100% belonged. He looked completely confident in himself. He controlled the puck as if he knew he could make a play. I'm saying he is not doing that now. In fact I'd be surprised if the puck was on his stick for a total of more than 30 seconds in each of his last games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
All those players spent some time playing semi-pro though, JVR made the leap in one giant step. Between the nagging injuries, the change in competition and more games played...JVR was bound to slow down.

The pace he was on was ridiculous, he'll be just fine. I'm not worried to much.
Great point Opus. Thanks for a giving some thought to what I'm trying to point out. It certainly will be more difficult for JVR.

And I'm not saying that this struggle he is going through isn't ok. Because it is. As you said, it's gonna be a tough transition for him. I'm merely stating that he is in fact struggling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
JVR is 2nd in scoring. 5 pts behind Tavares.

What do you mean what is wrong with him?
Again, this has nothing to do with point totals.

Does anyone read what I write or am I just really bad at explaining what I mean?

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12-11-2009, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
LMFAO@ comparing Kalinski and Nodl to JVR

I mean really. what the hell. Were you in the draft Kyle Turris camp back in 07?
I wonder where he is right now? Oh yeah averging less then half a point a game in the AHL.
btw Nodl still ****ing sucks.
Ugh...again. I'm not comparing them as players. That would be silly. I'm simply stating that those players are also rookies and even when not putting up points find a way to contribute. I don't feel JVR has been doing so of late.

And sadly, I will admit I was on the Turris bandwagon. I've admitted this everytime his name comes up haha. I was way wrong.

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12-11-2009, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
I reckon once Gagne returns it'll be 18/17/48/19/12/28 on the top two lines and JVR will sink to a more appropriate third line role.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
I wouldnt have a problem with JVR on the 3rd line.
Hopefully Gagne gets back healthy and stays there, I would think if we are still struggling offensively with Gagne back I would think there may be a trade.
I would agree. You've got to consider though, as has come up in other threads, they may want to ease Gagne in a bit on the 3rd line. So we'll see.

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12-11-2009, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Great point Opus. Thanks for a giving some thought to what I'm trying to point out. It certainly will be more difficult for JVR.

And I'm not saying that this struggle he is going through isn't ok. Because it is. As you said, it's gonna be a tough transition for him. I'm merely stating that he is in fact struggling.
I don't think he's struggling though.

19 points in 26 games is VERY good. I don't think it's very realistic to expect PPG production in his rookie year.

I know it's not about point totals, but still...he's been very good.

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12-11-2009, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Yea so? JVR is playing 13 a night. All I'm saying is AS OF LATE guys like Bartulis and others LOOK LIKE they belong. He is contributing. JVR has looked lost.

Don't lump me in with a fanbase and call me predictable. I don't believe I've ever made such a prediction about JVR putting up 50 or 60 points.

THIS ISN'T ABOUT POINTS! To expect him to play the way he started for an entire year is utterly absurd. He simply isn't doing the other important things he did before. Making beautiful passes, controlling the puck, simply looking confident.

What I'm talking about is not quantifiable in the slightest bit! You can tell when a player is struggling by HOW they are playing. Ryan Parent, often times when he has the puck looks like a scared puppy, makes a rash decision, fumbles the puck or just ices it. At times he has lapses in confidence and overthinks or makes a rash decision. This cannot be quantified. At other times, Parent looks fine. JVR at the beginning of the year looked like he 100% belonged. He looked completely confident in himself. He controlled the puck as if he knew he could make a play. I'm saying he is not doing that now. In fact I'd be surprised if the puck was on his stick for a total of more than 30 seconds in each of his last games.
No offense, but what the **** are you talking about? Has the fact that our coach wants us to dump the puck penetrated your brain? I mean, do you realize that JVR is following Laviolette's instructions to dump the puck into the zone and use the forecheck to maintain offensive zone posssession? Do you realize that JVR's line is by far the best one at doing this on the team?

This team isn't going to be about flash any more, it's going to be about hard work and learning how to get of our defensive zone without making an attempted home run pass every time.

I don't even see what you are talking about at all to be honest with you, JVR has remained solid defensively, has bought into the coach's instructions, and is part of the best line on the team. Do you understand that hockey is a team game? You seem to be implying that Carter's line is essentially playing 4 on 5, how do you explain then that it's the best line on the team?

Just mind-boggling.

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12-11-2009, 01:41 PM
  #25
DUHockey9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
I don't think he's struggling though.

19 points in 26 games is VERY good. I don't think it's very realistic to expect PPG production in his rookie year.

I know it's not about point totals, but still...he's been very good.
Fair enough.

If we're gonna talk points (Note: this is the first and only time I've discussed points in my entire argument) he has only had 1 in his last 10. So he was 18 pts in 16 games. Now he is 19 in 26.

And as stated before, a lack of points is completely acceptable if I still saw him doing the things I saw him doing earlier. I don't believe he ist still doing those things (see playing with the same confidence), which was my reasoning behind starting this thread.

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