HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Tortarella Over-Managing the Pipes?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-12-2009, 02:14 PM
  #1
GothamRanger
Registered User
 
GothamRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 1,017
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to GothamRanger
Tortarella Over-Managing the Pipes?

I am a little concerned about the details I am hearing about how head coach John Tortorella [JT] is managing the goal tending situation on the New York Rangers. If some one could shed some light on these comments I would greatly appreciate it:

Resting of Lundqvist -- so JT wants to give more rest to the starting goaltender and have the backup play more games. What exactly is the justification behind this? Is this something that is key to JTs style of coaching? If so what is the argument for this approach vs. another? Lundqvist has never complained of the work he has gotten, and it is my understanding goalies thrive on work and like to play as many games as possible. Of course these can be political statements from a goalie but the fact of the matter is we have been playing Hank 70+ games a year consistently since he's become the starting goaltender and needless to say this split has worked pretty well. He's a top goalie and plays less than his peers (Miller, Brodeur, Kiprusoff). He's used to resting for 12 games a year but this year it seems like he's at least going to be sitting for 16 and if JT finds a backup he is confident in its going to be even more.

What does this gain us in the end of the day?

Backup games -- is it not conventional wisdom to start your backup against teams that are not that good? Doesn't playing your lesser talented goalie against lesser talented opponents increase your chance or winning? Then why does JT start backup Steve Valiquette against teams like Anaheim, San Jose, Calgary then apparently get upset at his performance? I understand Hank was injured for some of those games but shouldn't SV get a pass in that case from the head coach since the mainstay was hurt? MA Fleury played the home-and-home against us both nights but we had to split the games between HL and SV. Wouldn't it have made sense to start SV the night before against Tampa (a game in which Henrik was eventually pulled from) and then let HL battle against MAF in the home and home? Doesn't JT's strategy not only put excessive pressure on your backup goalie but also quite frankly piss off your starter who should always be in a groove?

Steve Valiquette -- what exactly is JT's expectation of Valiquette? He is just a backup goaltender and gets paid like one. He is 2-3 this season playing against arguably the best teams in the league when he should be playing the worst teams in the league. He's .500 goalie and in the end of the day and that's good enough for a backup, especially when he was seeing as little ice-time as he did. Unless there's some clear cut goalie to replace him, I am just finding this decision to waive him perplexing.

3rd/4th string goalies -- ok, so most recently Valiquette was sent down then Johnson was called up. He didn't play any games and then Johnson was sent down and Zaba was called up. Today Johnson was called up again and Zaba was sent down. Phew. This was all for what? To get extra playing time for Johnson? Then what was the point of calling him up in the first place if he wasn't going to play? And, if you sent him down to get in a little more playing time before playing an NHL game, doesn't that reveal your faith in that goalie? Shouldn't you not call up a goalie unless he's ready and able to play a game in the NHL? If he gets too cold too quickly doesn't that mean he's not ready? Is all this fuss better than just letting Valiquette sit on the Rangers bench during this time? Now it looks as if Johnson is penciled in to start Monday against the Russian Red Army ATLANTA THRASHERS and then Lundqvist takes on the New York Islanders one night after the next? Does this make sense?

Feud with Lundqvist
-- I heard somewhere that JT is "not communicating" with Henrik Lundqvist. Is this just a rumor? Does this mean that simply he does not intervene with the starting goalie (as he shouldn't) or that they are now on bad terms (which is unacceptable!)? Please confirm/deny.

As you have read there is a lot that doesn't make sense to me in all of this (but I am not a hockey genius). Since the lockout our goal tending situation had been quiet solid (even 2005/2006 when Lundqvist took over for Weekes the transition was relatively smooth), and as anyone know the teams confidence in the goal tending is tantamount to the overall team's success. I never felt in doubt of our goal tending (whether it be backup or starter) and as many of you probably believe, if it is not broke, don't fix it... especially if you are a head coach intervening with the goaltending department, which JT should view as a sacred blackbox and should yield all suggestions from the goalie coach and the goalies themselves. Now, amongst all the more pressing issues this team has (secondary scoring, defense, toughness), we find JT spending much of his mental resources picking at loose threads on the goal tending front, which if played incorrectly can crater the team's peace of mind.

JT was quoted as saying that the goal tending situation is "a mess". But from where I am looking, it seems that he is the cause of much of that mess.

GothamRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2009, 02:19 PM
  #2
Dr. Ogrodnick
Registered User
 
Dr. Ogrodnick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,529
vCash: 661
It's an Olympic year, and Henrik is starting for Sweden. Seems obvious that giving Lundqvist more games off should be a priority.

Dr. Ogrodnick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2009, 02:22 PM
  #3
realitystrikes*
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 351
vCash: 500
Except he really hasn't given Henrik a rest at all. The guy still on pace for the same number of games he always plays.

realitystrikes* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2009, 02:24 PM
  #4
GothamRanger
Registered User
 
GothamRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 1,017
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to GothamRanger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Ogrodnick View Post
It's an Olympic year, and Henrik is starting for Sweden. Seems obvious that giving Lundqvist more games off should be a priority.
It doesn't appear that that's how other teams are managing their Olympic goalies.

GothamRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2009, 02:26 PM
  #5
Dr. Ogrodnick
Registered User
 
Dr. Ogrodnick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,529
vCash: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordStanleysMug View Post
Except he really hasn't given Henrik a rest at all. The guy still on pace for the same number of games he always plays.
I would imagine that has more to do with Valli crapping the bed than anything else.

Dr. Ogrodnick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2009, 02:27 PM
  #6
ThirdEye
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 11,666
vCash: 500
They two might not always be on the same terms, but Hank is not having as bad a season as some people are suggesting. His SV% is .916, which is right about what his career average is. I think the only difference is he's had a rough stretch earlier than usual, and thus everyone began panicking.

He also played well under him last season. I think the main problem is every season the team looks completely different than the prior season. As a whole they're just struggling to find an identity.

You also can't blame Tortorella for trying Vally a few times. He was pretty good last season, and it's not Tortorella's fault for having faith in him. Maybe he wanted the team to learn how to win games without relying on Hank all the time. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked.

ThirdEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2009, 02:29 PM
  #7
FLYLine24
The Mac Truck
 
FLYLine24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 29,184
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GothamRanger View Post

Feud with Lundqvist
-- I heard somewhere that JT is "not communicating" with Henrik Lundqvist. Is this just a rumor? Does this mean that simply he does not intervene with the starting goalie (as he shouldn't) or that they are now on bad terms (which is unacceptable!)? Please confirm/deny.


s.
Yes that was complete BS started by someone here.

FLYLine24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2009, 02:30 PM
  #8
Dr. Ogrodnick
Registered User
 
Dr. Ogrodnick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,529
vCash: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by GothamRanger View Post
It doesn't appear that that's how other teams are managing their Olympic goalies.
Miller and Luongo have played less games, Nabakov, Broduer and Kiprusoff have played more. Seems like Lundqvist is right in the middle of the spread.

Dr. Ogrodnick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2009, 02:35 PM
  #9
GothamRanger
Registered User
 
GothamRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 1,017
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to GothamRanger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Ogrodnick View Post
Miller and Luongo have played less games, Nabakov, Broduer and Kiprusoff have played more. Seems like Lundqvist is right in the middle of the spread.
Is that counting the games Lundqvist was injured for? I dunno if that even matters ...

GothamRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2009, 02:35 PM
  #10
Barbara Underhill
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuke
 
Barbara Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montana
Country: United States
Posts: 13,129
vCash: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordStanleysMug View Post
Except he really hasn't given Henrik a rest at all. The guy still on pace for the same number of games he always plays.
He can't rest Lundqvist he is in desperation mode, he has to turn this club around and get them winning soon. Lundqvist is his only chance he can't play unproven goalies and expect W's.

Barbara Underhill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2009, 03:15 PM
  #11
OverTheCap
Registered User
 
OverTheCap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,632
vCash: 500
It isn't overmanaging... it's called "Vally isn't up to the task of starting more games to give Lundqvist more rest in an Olympic year."

Torts said he wanted Vally to start 15-17 games, meaning he would have to face some of the better teams in the league.

This is hardly the first season in which Vally faced good teams... under Renney, he started against the Flyers all the time. Last season he started against Washington and Carolina, both playoff teams.

Vally has regressed since 2007-08 and couldn't handle playing some of the better teams in the league, something he would have to do this season for Lundqvist to get more rest.

Some people are trying to read between the lines for some sort of "goalie feud" or "overmanaging" when it doesn't even exist.

OverTheCap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2009, 03:46 PM
  #12
Dagoon44
Registered User
 
Dagoon44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,913
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Dagoon44 Send a message via Yahoo to Dagoon44
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
Yes that was complete BS started by someone here.
Hey Fly the only complete B.S. is you making that statement. It was reported by Zips and Brooks in 2 major ny papers they communicate through the goalie coach and don't speak. It was also reported by Mitch Beck a Wolfpack beat writer. You should not make comments like that without researching. And When i do spend time with Players and want to post info you say no then when i post facts it is B.S. ? This is the most one sided fan site on the net you mods force people to post your way or no way. I make a torts post and it get deleted because there are 2 many Torts posts. Now there are new ones daily? This is becoming a joke


Last edited by Dagoon44: 12-12-2009 at 03:56 PM.
Dagoon44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2009, 03:51 PM
  #13
Emptyvoid
Registered User
 
Emptyvoid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,369
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Hey Fly the only complete B.S. is yo making that statement. It was reports by Zips and Brooks in 2 major ny papers they communicate through the goalie coach and don't speak. It was also reported by Mitch Beck a Wolfpack beat writer. You should not make comments like that without researching. And When i do spend time with Players and want to post info you say no then when i post facts it is B.S. ? This is the most one sided fan site on the net you mods force people to post your way or no way. I make a torts post and it get deleted because there are 2 many Torts posts. Now there are new ones daily? This is becoming a joke
Not really directed at you Dagoon but can anyone post those links that Dagoon is talking about? I'd like to read them and see for myself if there's any validity to it.

Emptyvoid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2009, 04:00 PM
  #14
pwoz
Registered User
 
pwoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,494
vCash: 500
I fear a repeat of 05/06... well, not a playoff birth, but Hank getting migraines and breaking down.

pwoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2009, 04:29 PM
  #15
realitystrikes*
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 351
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Ogrodnick View Post
I would imagine that has more to do with Valli crapping the bed than anything else.
Thats bs though. Is there any reason Henrik is not starting against San Jose, Anaheim, Pittsburgh, and Calgary? Those are/were at the time of the games, all top teams in the league. I don't know whether its the coaching or Lundqvist, or both, but it has seemed that through out his career, a lot of his days off come against the better teams in the league. He needs to be in there against top caliber teams, and its crap to throw the backup under the bus for not getting the job done against teams that Lundqvist likely would have struggled against as well had he played.

realitystrikes* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2009, 04:42 PM
  #16
FLYLine24
The Mac Truck
 
FLYLine24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 29,184
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Hey Fly the only complete B.S. is you making that statement. It was reported by Zips and Brooks in 2 major ny papers they communicate through the goalie coach and don't speak. It was also reported by Mitch Beck a Wolfpack beat writer. You should not make comments like that without researching. And When i do spend time with Players and want to post info you say no then when i post facts it is B.S. ? This is the most one sided fan site on the net you mods force people to post your way or no way. I make a torts post and it get deleted because there are 2 many Torts posts. Now there are new ones daily? This is becoming a joke
Well firstly there has been nothing by any of those reporters that said "Lundqvist and Torts do not like each other" or "Lundqvist and Torts are in a feud" or anything alone those lines, so i'd like you to back up what your misinterpreting. "Lundqvist and Torts did not communicate after the loss" does not mean they are in a fued by the slightest and is pure speculation.

And second, I wasn't referring to you.

FLYLine24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2009, 04:43 PM
  #17
msv957
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,047
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordStanleysMug View Post
Thats bs though. Is there any reason Henrik is not starting against San Jose, Anaheim, Pittsburgh, and Calgary? Those are/were at the time of the games, all top teams in the league. I don't know whether its the coaching or Lundqvist, or both, but it has seemed that through out his career, a lot of his days off come against the better teams in the league. He needs to be in there against top caliber teams, and its crap to throw the backup under the bus for not getting the job done against teams that Lundqvist likely would have struggled against as well had he played.
really good point... It did seem the past few years when Valley did play he would play against the great teams on the road.. Not even home games also.... I thought that seemed unusual..

msv957 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2009, 04:55 PM
  #18
Dr. Ogrodnick
Registered User
 
Dr. Ogrodnick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,529
vCash: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordStanleysMug View Post
Thats bs though. Is there any reason Henrik is not starting against San Jose, Anaheim, Pittsburgh, and Calgary? Those are/were at the time of the games, all top teams in the league. I don't know whether its the coaching or Lundqvist, or both, but it has seemed that through out his career, a lot of his days off come against the better teams in the league. He needs to be in there against top caliber teams, and its crap to throw the backup under the bus for not getting the job done against teams that Lundqvist likely would have struggled against as well had he played.
All of those save Pittsburgh are western conference teams. Often times teams will start the backups for out of conference games, as a loss does not help a team that they are directly competing with in the standings. As for the Pitt game, that to me is the only questionable start, as Vali should have gotten the game in Tampa the night before.

Dr. Ogrodnick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2009, 05:07 PM
  #19
SomebodySaveKreider
Registered User
 
SomebodySaveKreider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 2,517
vCash: 500
The backup goaltender is actually something that I think Torts is right about.

Keep in mind, I'm not liking what I'm seeing from the Rangers so far, but this is a valid concern.

SomebodySaveKreider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2009, 05:24 PM
  #20
realitystrikes*
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 351
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Ogrodnick View Post
All of those save Pittsburgh are western conference teams. Often times teams will start the backups for out of conference games, as a loss does not help a team that they are directly competing with in the standings. As for the Pitt game, that to me is the only questionable start, as Vali should have gotten the game in Tampa the night before.
Thats true, but I've always kind of noticed this trend, especially when Henrik isn't playing well. He's publicly mentioned he takes a great deal of pride in his stats, so I would not be shocked if this had something to do with it.

realitystrikes* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2009, 06:55 PM
  #21
RangerFan10
Registered User
 
RangerFan10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Long Island/Plattsbu
Country: United States
Posts: 5,327
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to RangerFan10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Ogrodnick View Post
It's an Olympic year, and Henrik is starting for Sweden. Seems obvious that giving Lundqvist more games off should be a priority.
This

And it's clear Vali just did not give this team a chance to win all that often in net. Yeah, he's a backup, but his last few performances have been horrible, and he's been god awful in Hartford. We probably have to go out and get someone, or hope that Zaba can step up to the plate (because I'm sure they want Johnson to be getting enough playing time to develop)

RangerFan10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2009, 01:58 AM
  #22
Radek27
Registered User
 
Radek27's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,149
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Radek27
I don't know why Heinny only got one shift in the 3rd. I'm starting to think this is his way of telling Sather get me some damn NHL players, fix your mess. He sure doesn't seem fond of the players coming up from Hartford thats for sure.

Radek27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2009, 09:19 AM
  #23
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,811
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianRangersFan View Post
Not really directed at you Dagoon but can anyone post those links that Dagoon is talking about? I'd like to read them and see for myself if there's any validity to it.
They actually have to exist in order to post them.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2009, 11:51 AM
  #24
Loffen
Wen Kroy
 
Loffen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Soft euro
Posts: 17,192
vCash: 500
Starting Vally against San Jose and Pittsburgh still dosen't make any sense... What the **** was the coach thinking?

Loffen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2009, 12:39 PM
  #25
AXN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,451
vCash: 500
I am sorry we are playing the pipe system. Herd a lot of it from the Boston Bruins. First line scores the others tighten the pipes. Drury became a pipe tuner. We should have at least two lines that can score. There is no room in the salary cap and we are playing the pipe system?

AXN is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:07 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.