I am a little concerned about the details I am hearing about how head coach John Tortorella [JT] is managing the goal tending situation on the New York Rangers. If some one could shed some light on these comments I would greatly appreciate it:
Resting of Lundqvist -- so JT wants to give more rest to the starting goaltender and have the backup play more games. What exactly is the justification behind this? Is this something that is key to JTs style of coaching? If so what is the argument for this approach vs. another? Lundqvist has never complained of the work he has gotten, and it is my understanding goalies thrive on work and like to play as many games as possible. Of course these can be political statements from a goalie but the fact of the matter is we have been playing Hank 70+ games a year consistently since he's become the starting goaltender and needless to say this split has worked pretty well. He's a top goalie and plays less than his peers (Miller, Brodeur, Kiprusoff). He's used to resting for 12 games a year but this year it seems like he's at least going to be sitting for 16 and if JT finds a backup he is confident in its going to be even more.
What does this gain us in the end of the day?
Backup games -- is it not conventional wisdom to start your backup against teams that are not that good? Doesn't playing your lesser talented goalie against lesser talented opponents increase your chance or winning? Then why does JT start backup Steve Valiquette against teams like Anaheim, San Jose, Calgary then apparently get upset at his performance? I understand Hank was injured for some of those games but shouldn't SV get a pass in that case from the head coach since the mainstay was hurt? MA Fleury played the home-and-home against us both nights but we had to split the games between HL and SV. Wouldn't it have made sense to start SV the night before against Tampa (a game in which Henrik was eventually pulled from) and then let HL battle against MAF in the home and home? Doesn't JT's strategy not only put excessive pressure on your backup goalie but also quite frankly piss off your starter who should always be in a groove?
Steve Valiquette -- what exactly is JT's expectation of Valiquette? He is just a backup goaltender and gets paid like one. He is 2-3 this season playing against arguably the best teams in the league when he should be playing the worst teams in the league. He's .500 goalie and in the end of the day and that's good enough for a backup, especially when he was seeing as little ice-time as he did. Unless there's some clear cut goalie to replace him, I am just finding this decision to waive him perplexing.
3rd/4th string goalies -- ok, so most recently Valiquette was sent down then Johnson was called up. He didn't play any games and then Johnson was sent down and Zaba was called up. Today Johnson was called up again and Zaba was sent down. Phew. This was all for what? To get extra playing time for Johnson? Then what was the point of calling him up in the first place if he wasn't going to play? And, if you sent him down to get in a little more playing time before playing an NHL game, doesn't that reveal your faith in that goalie? Shouldn't you not call up a goalie unless he's ready and able to play a game in the NHL? If he gets too cold too quickly doesn't that mean he's not ready? Is all this fuss better than just letting Valiquette sit on the Rangers bench during this time? Now it looks as if Johnson is penciled in to start Monday against the Russian Red Army ATLANTA THRASHERS and then Lundqvist takes on the New York Islanders one night after the next? Does this make sense?
Feud with Lundqvist -- I heard somewhere that JT is "not communicating" with Henrik Lundqvist. Is this just a rumor? Does this mean that simply he does not intervene with the starting goalie (as he shouldn't) or that they are now on bad terms (which is unacceptable!)? Please confirm/deny.
As you have read there is a lot that doesn't make sense to me in all of this (but I am not a hockey genius). Since the lockout our goal tending situation had been quiet solid (even 2005/2006 when Lundqvist took over for Weekes the transition was relatively smooth), and as anyone know the teams confidence in the goal tending is tantamount to the overall team's success. I never felt in doubt of our goal tending (whether it be backup or starter) and as many of you probably believe, if it is not broke, don't fix it... especially if you are a head coach intervening with the goaltending department, which JT should view as a sacred blackbox and should yield all suggestions from the goalie coach and the goalies themselves. Now, amongst all the more pressing issues this team has (secondary scoring, defense, toughness), we find JT spending much of his mental resources picking at loose threads on the goal tending front, which if played incorrectly can crater the team's peace of mind.
JT was quoted as saying that the goal tending situation is "a mess". But from where I am looking, it seems that he is the cause of much of that mess.
They two might not always be on the same terms, but Hank is not having as bad a season as some people are suggesting. His SV% is .916, which is right about what his career average is. I think the only difference is he's had a rough stretch earlier than usual, and thus everyone began panicking.
He also played well under him last season. I think the main problem is every season the team looks completely different than the prior season. As a whole they're just struggling to find an identity.
You also can't blame Tortorella for trying Vally a few times. He was pretty good last season, and it's not Tortorella's fault for having faith in him. Maybe he wanted the team to learn how to win games without relying on Hank all the time. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked.
Feud with Lundqvist -- I heard somewhere that JT is "not communicating" with Henrik Lundqvist. Is this just a rumor? Does this mean that simply he does not intervene with the starting goalie (as he shouldn't) or that they are now on bad terms (which is unacceptable!)? Please confirm/deny.
Except he really hasn't given Henrik a rest at all. The guy still on pace for the same number of games he always plays.
He can't rest Lundqvist he is in desperation mode, he has to turn this club around and get them winning soon. Lundqvist is his only chance he can't play unproven goalies and expect W's.
It isn't overmanaging... it's called "Vally isn't up to the task of starting more games to give Lundqvist more rest in an Olympic year."
Torts said he wanted Vally to start 15-17 games, meaning he would have to face some of the better teams in the league.
This is hardly the first season in which Vally faced good teams... under Renney, he started against the Flyers all the time. Last season he started against Washington and Carolina, both playoff teams.
Vally has regressed since 2007-08 and couldn't handle playing some of the better teams in the league, something he would have to do this season for Lundqvist to get more rest.
Some people are trying to read between the lines for some sort of "goalie feud" or "overmanaging" when it doesn't even exist.
Hey Fly the only complete B.S. is you making that statement. It was reported by Zips and Brooks in 2 major ny papers they communicate through the goalie coach and don't speak. It was also reported by Mitch Beck a Wolfpack beat writer. You should not make comments like that without researching. And When i do spend time with Players and want to post info you say no then when i post facts it is B.S. ? This is the most one sided fan site on the net you mods force people to post your way or no way. I make a torts post and it get deleted because there are 2 many Torts posts. Now there are new ones daily? This is becoming a joke
Hey Fly the only complete B.S. is yo making that statement. It was reports by Zips and Brooks in 2 major ny papers they communicate through the goalie coach and don't speak. It was also reported by Mitch Beck a Wolfpack beat writer. You should not make comments like that without researching. And When i do spend time with Players and want to post info you say no then when i post facts it is B.S. ? This is the most one sided fan site on the net you mods force people to post your way or no way. I make a torts post and it get deleted because there are 2 many Torts posts. Now there are new ones daily? This is becoming a joke
Not really directed at you Dagoon but can anyone post those links that Dagoon is talking about? I'd like to read them and see for myself if there's any validity to it.
I would imagine that has more to do with Valli crapping the bed than anything else.
Thats bs though. Is there any reason Henrik is not starting against San Jose, Anaheim, Pittsburgh, and Calgary? Those are/were at the time of the games, all top teams in the league. I don't know whether its the coaching or Lundqvist, or both, but it has seemed that through out his career, a lot of his days off come against the better teams in the league. He needs to be in there against top caliber teams, and its crap to throw the backup under the bus for not getting the job done against teams that Lundqvist likely would have struggled against as well had he played.
Hey Fly the only complete B.S. is you making that statement. It was reported by Zips and Brooks in 2 major ny papers they communicate through the goalie coach and don't speak. It was also reported by Mitch Beck a Wolfpack beat writer. You should not make comments like that without researching. And When i do spend time with Players and want to post info you say no then when i post facts it is B.S. ? This is the most one sided fan site on the net you mods force people to post your way or no way. I make a torts post and it get deleted because there are 2 many Torts posts. Now there are new ones daily? This is becoming a joke
Well firstly there has been nothing by any of those reporters that said "Lundqvist and Torts do not like each other" or "Lundqvist and Torts are in a feud" or anything alone those lines, so i'd like you to back up what your misinterpreting. "Lundqvist and Torts did not communicate after the loss" does not mean they are in a fued by the slightest and is pure speculation.
Thats bs though. Is there any reason Henrik is not starting against San Jose, Anaheim, Pittsburgh, and Calgary? Those are/were at the time of the games, all top teams in the league. I don't know whether its the coaching or Lundqvist, or both, but it has seemed that through out his career, a lot of his days off come against the better teams in the league. He needs to be in there against top caliber teams, and its crap to throw the backup under the bus for not getting the job done against teams that Lundqvist likely would have struggled against as well had he played.
really good point... It did seem the past few years when Valley did play he would play against the great teams on the road.. Not even home games also.... I thought that seemed unusual..
Thats bs though. Is there any reason Henrik is not starting against San Jose, Anaheim, Pittsburgh, and Calgary? Those are/were at the time of the games, all top teams in the league. I don't know whether its the coaching or Lundqvist, or both, but it has seemed that through out his career, a lot of his days off come against the better teams in the league. He needs to be in there against top caliber teams, and its crap to throw the backup under the bus for not getting the job done against teams that Lundqvist likely would have struggled against as well had he played.
All of those save Pittsburgh are western conference teams. Often times teams will start the backups for out of conference games, as a loss does not help a team that they are directly competing with in the standings. As for the Pitt game, that to me is the only questionable start, as Vali should have gotten the game in Tampa the night before.
All of those save Pittsburgh are western conference teams. Often times teams will start the backups for out of conference games, as a loss does not help a team that they are directly competing with in the standings. As for the Pitt game, that to me is the only questionable start, as Vali should have gotten the game in Tampa the night before.
Thats true, but I've always kind of noticed this trend, especially when Henrik isn't playing well. He's publicly mentioned he takes a great deal of pride in his stats, so I would not be shocked if this had something to do with it.
It's an Olympic year, and Henrik is starting for Sweden. Seems obvious that giving Lundqvist more games off should be a priority.
This
And it's clear Vali just did not give this team a chance to win all that often in net. Yeah, he's a backup, but his last few performances have been horrible, and he's been god awful in Hartford. We probably have to go out and get someone, or hope that Zaba can step up to the plate (because I'm sure they want Johnson to be getting enough playing time to develop)
I don't know why Heinny only got one shift in the 3rd. I'm starting to think this is his way of telling Sather get me some damn NHL players, fix your mess. He sure doesn't seem fond of the players coming up from Hartford thats for sure.
Not really directed at you Dagoon but can anyone post those links that Dagoon is talking about? I'd like to read them and see for myself if there's any validity to it.
They actually have to exist in order to post them.
I am sorry we are playing the pipe system. Herd a lot of it from the Boston Bruins. First line scores the others tighten the pipes. Drury became a pipe tuner. We should have at least two lines that can score. There is no room in the salary cap and we are playing the pipe system?
