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would you trade gomez for rj umburger?

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Old
12-12-2009, 03:30 PM
  #51
smon
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I like the overreactions in this thread, very entertaining.

Gomez has been surpassed on the depth chart by Plekanec. And if Plekanec is going to be the #1 centre and continues his great play - he's going to be have to be paid like one or he hits the UFA market. Factor in raises for Price (again playing well) and the cap space would be great to have. So I'd make the trade, the cap flexibility would be handy and Umberger isn't a bad player at all.

Realistically though, a player who just got acquired isn't going to be flipped so quickly. So it's pointless speculation...

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Old
12-12-2009, 04:21 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smon View Post
I like the overreactions in this thread, very entertaining.

Gomez has been surpassed on the depth chart by Plekanec. And if Plekanec is going to be the #1 centre and continues his great play - he's going to be have to be paid like one or he hits the UFA market. Factor in raises for Price (again playing well) and the cap space would be great to have. So I'd make the trade, the cap flexibility would be handy and Umberger isn't a bad player at all.

Realistically though, a player who just got acquired isn't going to be flipped so quickly. So it's pointless speculation...
Unfortunately (as it stands now), you're probably right. The cap flexibility you mention is the biggest problem I have will the deal... even more than Gomez's performance.

And for those wonder who we could have gotten instead for the 3.5 Mil, it's not just 3.5 m. It's that plus the whatever possibilities arise when/if Hamrlik signs a new contract (probably less than 5+ mil, and maybe we end up with the entire 5.5 mil to play with if the Habs pass entirely... which seems unlikely), plus hundred of thousands if a top centre is going to be pursued, Metro (and his 1 mil) are let go in favour of bringing up Maxwell (who I think would be paid only half of that), perhaps waiving D'Ago and depending on what happens to Mara's 1.6+ mil after this year.

Some of that seems like pennies in scale, but with the expected raises to Price, and likely Plekanec, all those extra bits would help. Unfortunately, Gomez's contract likely means some people here are going to be saying good bye to a few of their favourite hopefuls and role players on this team (not limited to D'Ago, Lapierre, Metro, Mara, Bergeron) due to financial constraints (also, do the Habs make signing S.Kost a priority, and if so does HE get a raise, too?).

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Old
12-12-2009, 04:43 PM
  #53
otto bond
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Gomez's problem is his contract. He is a good player with good experience and character. People who complane about him are to me overreacting. Look at Richard in Dallas....I bet the TB wished that it would be VL there and Richard in TB. Yes, it always easier to judge after the fact but he was the MVP in the playoffs and not VL.
Would I like for Gomez to produce more? for sure but I'm just trying to live with the fact that he is paid like a star but is not one. What else does he do? plays realy well on the PK(also a good place for someone to gain confidence) is good in the transition game by coming back and helping the defence. Take hits to make plays, moves the puck and so on an on.
Agree with me or not, Gomez to me is a number one center. He is a smart player that's not getting the breaks offencively. Last game for exemple.......ok lets not go there. I think he will pot more goals and I see him putting up clouch goals and to me thats where he can earn his contract in the eyes of one fan.

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Old
12-12-2009, 05:48 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viau View Post
And he is barely a second line center.


I assume you are talking about Gomez

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Old
12-12-2009, 05:51 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smon View Post
I like the overreactions in this thread, very entertaining.

Gomez has been surpassed on the depth chart by Plekanec. And if Plekanec is going to be the #1 centre and continues his great play - he's going to be have to be paid like one or he hits the UFA market. Factor in raises for Price (again playing well) and the cap space would be great to have. So I'd make the trade, the cap flexibility would be handy and Umberger isn't a bad player at all.

Realistically though, a player who just got acquired isn't going to be flipped so quickly. So it's pointless speculation...
I agree that Gomez won't be moved and that is part of what is wrong with the way teams run their businesses. They try to save face on a bad deal when they should cut and run.

As for speculation, it is all pointless but that is what we do here. If we didn't this board wouldn't exist.

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Old
12-12-2009, 05:57 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
Gomez's problem is his contract. He is a good player with good experience and character. People who complane about him are to me overreacting. Look at Richard in Dallas....I bet the TB wished that it would be VL there and Richard in TB. Yes, it always easier to judge after the fact but he was the MVP in the playoffs and not VL.
Would I like for Gomez to produce more? for sure but I'm just trying to live with the fact that he is paid like a star but is not one. What else does he do? plays realy well on the PK(also a good place for someone to gain confidence) is good in the transition game by coming back and helping the defence. Take hits to make plays, moves the puck and so on an on.
Agree with me or not, Gomez to me is a number one center. He is a smart player that's not getting the breaks offencively. Last game for exemple.......ok lets not go there. I think he will pot more goals and I see him putting up clouch goals and to me thats where he can earn his contract in the eyes of one fan.
Yes his contract is the problem and it is the problem that prevents us from signing a number one center. He is not a bad player by he is eating valuable cap space.

I doubt that Gomez will ever reach 65 points in a season during the rest of his career. I would be happy if he did but I don't think it will happen. We have to ask ourselves, will a #1 center who scores 65 points a year lead us out of mediocrity.

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Old
12-12-2009, 06:02 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Hub City Hab View Post
Yes his contract is the problem and it is the problem that prevents us from signing a number one center. He is not a bad player by he is eating valuable cap space.

I doubt that Gomez will ever reach 65 points in a season during the rest of his career. I would be happy if he did but I don't think it will happen. We have to ask ourselves, will a #1 center who scores 65 points a year lead us out of mediocrity.
No. Thankfully our no1 center is Plekanec.

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Old
12-12-2009, 06:03 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Hub City Hab View Post
I assume you are talking about Gomez
Umberger :

05-06 : 38pts
06-07 : 28pts
07-08 : 50pts
08-09 : 46pts
09-10 : 22pts

Gomez :

05-06 : 84pts
06-07 : 60pts
07-08 : 70pts
08-09 : 58pts
09-10 : 14pts

I assume you know hockey so well that past years doesn't not count for you. Umberger got more point this year = Umberger is a number one center, Gomez not.


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Old
12-12-2009, 06:23 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viau View Post
Umberger :

05-06 : 38pts
06-07 : 28pts
07-08 : 50pts
08-09 : 46pts
09-10 : 22pts

Gomez :

05-06 : 84pts
06-07 : 60pts
07-08 : 70pts
08-09 : 58pts
09-10 : 14pts

I assume you know hockey so well that past years doesn't not count for you. Umberger got more point this year = Umberger is a number one center, Gomez not.

Well, since Umberger is paid half the price of Gomez, he's a better investment.

That's the whole point of this thread.

Nobody thinks Umberger is better than Gomez, but that both players aren't stars and neither should be paid like one.

Would the habs be better with Umberger instead of Gomez in the lineup? Most probably not. But again, will the habs win the cup or have a chance to win the cup with Gomez? Most probably not. We need his salary to go to a star, not a second line center.

Don't you get it? It's not about Gomez, it's about his salary vs his production and the headache it brings in a salary cap world.

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Old
12-12-2009, 06:25 PM
  #60
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Of course, id trade Gomez for a 6rd draft pick just to get rid of that contract

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Old
12-12-2009, 06:30 PM
  #61
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I'd trade him for virtually anyone but Campbell, Huet, Horcoff, Redden and maybe 1, or 2 other players.

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Old
12-12-2009, 06:40 PM
  #62
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At times, hockey decisions need to be made based on things other than strictly physical ability. I think this would be one of those times. Sure Gomez MIGHT be slightly better (although thats a toss up), but we would be getting rid of a huge contract, getting a decent player in return AND would allow us to get another decent player in way of trade or signing.

If it were Gomez for Umberger straight up, I do that in a second.

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Old
12-12-2009, 06:42 PM
  #63
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Moving Gomez isn't going to help this team going forward,if another centerman isn't coming back we cannot go on with Plekanec #1 and Lapierre or Metropolit at #2 and Maxwell isn't even close of being ready

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Old
12-12-2009, 06:55 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
Just wondering, didn't Cammy and Gionta sign here because we got Gomez via trade?

If so, what would they think if he was traded?
Cammalleri has never even played with Gomez before, why would he have signed a 6 year contract because of him?

Gomez influenced his decision because he became the only top 2 line center signed by the CH at the time. Otherwise we'd be offering a star player to play with Metropolit/Lapierre/Chipchura.

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Old
12-12-2009, 07:00 PM
  #65
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In a heart beat.

We need cap room to re-sign Plekanec and Price. Trading Gomez for Umberger would free up close slightly more than 3.5M without sacrificing much, if anything at all, in terms of ability.

Columbus wouldn't make that deal though.

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Old
12-12-2009, 07:03 PM
  #66
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Just a quick question to put things in perspective in this what you done for me now world.

Does anyone recall Chara's 1st yr in Boston?
You know, the perennial Norris trophy candidate

In that first year
He wasn't a candidate for anything but a bum's rush out of town......
Look at him now!

Certain things warrant a little patience

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Old
12-12-2009, 07:31 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
Just a quick question to put things in perspective in this what you done for me now world.

Does anyone recall Chara's 1st yr in Boston?
You know, the perennial Norris trophy candidate

In that first year
He wasn't a candidate for anything but a bum's rush out of town......
Look at him now!

Certain things warrant a little patience
This.

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Old
12-12-2009, 11:34 PM
  #68
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Damn, I love those random proposals !

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Old
12-13-2009, 12:22 AM
  #69
Year 101
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Not in a million years.
People dont seem to understand that he is a playmaker. Umberger would do nothing on this team with SK and Lap as his linemates. When Gio is back or if Pouliot has chemistry and they still continue to not produce then criticize but until he has capable linemates for a while. If you recall Gomez was playing injured for a while and was constintantly shifting linemates.

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Old
12-13-2009, 12:25 AM
  #70
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
Just a quick question to put things in perspective in this what you done for me now world.

Does anyone recall Chara's 1st yr in Boston?
You know, the perennial Norris trophy candidate

In that first year
He wasn't a candidate for anything but a bum's rush out of town......
Look at him now!

Certain things warrant a little patience
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viau View Post
This.
Umm... this is a thread about Gomez and Umberger, neither of whom have been in the running for anything resembling a major NHL award. Chara, on the other hand, was already a 2-time post-season all star by the time he signed with Boston, and a Norris runner-up. Where did patience come into the equation with Chara at all?

"Zdeno is one of the premier defencemen in the National Hockey League and we are thrilled that he will be in a Boston uniform for the next five years," Bruins interim GM Jeff Gorton said in a release.

"He is a big reason why Ottawa allowed the fewest goals in the Eastern Conference last season and that is one area that we were committed to improving on our team."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2006/07...ra-bruins.html

And as "bad" as you want to suggest Chara was that first year in Boston, realize that he still received Norris votes. 3 points (1 4th place) more than Markov, in fact. The Bruins AS A TEAM missed the playoffs that year, but Chara still managed to equal his offensive output from the year before. Heck, Mara's +/- was worse than Chara's on that team with over 20 fewer games played.


Last edited by Ohashi_Jouzu: 12-13-2009 at 12:31 AM.
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Old
12-13-2009, 12:27 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
Just a quick question to put things in perspective in this what you done for me now world.

Does anyone recall Chara's 1st yr in Boston?
You know, the perennial Norris trophy candidate

In that first year
He wasn't a candidate for anything but a bum's rush out of town......
Look at him now!

Certain things warrant a little patience
Are you really comparing Gomez and Chara? Chara in Ottawa proved a lot more than Gomez has ever done. Yeah yeah he has a cup but it's not Chara's fault the Sens were chokers.

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Old
12-13-2009, 12:35 AM
  #72
Year 101
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Are you really comparing Gomez and Chara? Chara in Ottawa proved a lot more than Gomez has ever done. Yeah yeah he has a cup but it's not Chara's fault the Sens were chokers.
Not at all. People underestimate Gomez just because of his contract. He was an integral part of the Devils cup runs, very sound hockey player and yea Chara is a beast but at the end of the day the rings leave your name engraned in history. To say that Chara in Ottawa proved more than Gomez did in his entire career is pure insanity.

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Old
12-13-2009, 12:52 AM
  #73
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Not at all. People underestimate Gomez just because of his contract. He was an integral part of the Devils cup runs, very sound hockey player and yea Chara is a beast but at the end of the day the rings leave your name engraned in history. To say that Chara in Ottawa proved more than Gomez did in his entire career is pure insanity.
An integral part? So were Stevens, Neidermayer, Brodeur, Rafalski, Elias, Nieuwendyk, Arnott, Sykora, Langenbrunner, Madden, Mogilny, etc. Come on, winning a Cup doesn't prove jack because it's a team thing. Dandenault has three cups....name engrained in history. Yeah okay.

Chara has easily outplayed Gomez in his career and it's not even close. Chara is a Norris trophy defensemen and not just last year. He's played that standard for MANY years and has been more or less consistent (other than the first year in Boston). Chara is a phenomenal player who I'd trade Gomez for in a heartbeat.

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Old
12-13-2009, 01:07 AM
  #74
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All I know is that Bergeron as a higher PPG than him.

And waiting for Gionta to come back is pretty ridiculous. Shouldn't he be at the very least doing .65PPG with someone else?

I am not advocating that he be traded, but even notwithstanding his salary, he's pretty average for a second line center so far.

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Old
12-13-2009, 01:29 AM
  #75
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Yes.

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