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[Hypothetical]Big Contract + 1st for garbage.

View Poll Results: If YOU where the GM, would you trade one of the big contracts and a 1st for Garbage?
In a Heartbeat 10 13.51%
Yes, but I would consider turning it down 11 14.86%
No, but I would consider it 20 27.03%
When hell freezes over I'll think about it... 33 44.59%
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-12-2009, 07:07 PM
  #51
Trxjw
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Originally Posted by BayAreaRanger View Post
I'd rather us draft and build our own stars.
The common misconception is that stars are only available in the top-10 of each draft. The fact is, all of our promising young prospects (home grown) have come out of the mid-late 1st or beyond. Are they on the level of the Stamkos' of the world? No, but they're very good players that were taken thanks to a much improved scouting department.

If this team stands pat, we'll probably end up with our highest pick since the lockout started. I'm sure we'd get a very good player if we were picking somewhere in the 7-12 range. Especially in this upcoming draft.

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Old
12-12-2009, 07:43 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
let me ask you this.

Would you give away Michael Del Zotto just to get rid of Wade Redden?

Would you give away Marc Staal, just to get rid of Chris Drury?

If the answer to this is no, then the answer to this has to be no. Our first rounders since Gordie Clark took over have, more often than not, been stellar picks.

Maybe Gordie Clark should be GM.

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Old
12-12-2009, 07:45 PM
  #53
tjs252
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Originally Posted by satrabyk View Post
Wow your sound like a Sather puppet. Cap space does not win games, these players Drury, Redden, are moveable? Please tell me your joking with this. No one would pick these players up. To me Drury is the most overpaid in the league, and Redden(althoguh has shown some good points is also highly overpaid for a player in his situation. When we talk about cap space were talking about potential, yes money does not win games, but the potential to sign a player(s) is a better position than being commited with no flexebiltiy. What you say argues that some of the top skilled players in the league are not as good to have as Drury. Or some of the top D men are not as good as Redden.
I don't think people really understand what makes a contract in the NHL "bad."

Fans hate the annual cap hit because that's all that they see and therefore, all they think matters. It's not their money that's being spent on the contracts, so why should they care if it's 3/$21 mil or 10/$70 mil, the $7 mil cap hit is the $7 mil cap hit.

Here's the thing, owners care about guaranteed money, and every contract is guaranteed. The worst contract we had we had was Scott Gomez. Why? It was a 7 year $52 million deal. Now, ignore completely the annual cap hit, you are guaranteeing $52 million to a player. $52 million. That's the number that owners care about, the guaranteed amount. They could give a crap about the cap hit, they look at a player and they look at his guaranteed salary.

That segues into why any of those contracts are movable. Wade Redden signed a six year deal, Drury 5 and Rozsival 4.

When you look to trade a player, you aren't asking them to pay you back for the years and dollars you've already committed. Drury's contract and Redden'ts contract are front loaded. If you look to trade either of those players you are asking a team to take on 2 years of Drury and 4 years of Redden for far less money guaranteed than their annual cap hit. Why is that good, because in the NHL world of salary floors and many teams not spending up to the cap, a player who counts against the cap for more than he makes and still plays passable hockey has value. A team like the Panthers or Lightning or Coyotes, who do not want to spend a lot of money but still have to abide by the league mandated salary floor would love to add $2 or $3 million to the cap that they don't have to pay for. If we don't want anything back but a 5th defensemen for Hartford, Wade Redden is gone in an instant, Drury too. Why? Those guys are good players (though overpaid) who are owed less than they count against the cap, and are big names that'll sell jerseys for star starved markets. The problem is, in building a roster, the Rangers aren't just going to give away talent for free. A year ago, no one ever thought we'd be able to trade Gomez for a return we deemed worthwhile, but it happened. If we can rid ourselves of our most onerous contract for actual value, a small market godsend like these contracts are movable if we want to move them.

So to conclude:

Cap hit > actual salary = value

Wade Redden & Chris Drury cap hit > actual salary = value

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Old
12-12-2009, 08:00 PM
  #54
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12-12-2009, 10:28 PM
  #55
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Most teams that would be interested in our pick would not be interested in absorbing that much salary at all

And while Drury, Roszy, and Redden are all scheduled to make less than their hit (I think all 3 are? I know Roszy is.), it's still much more than they're respectively worth.

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Old
12-12-2009, 11:50 PM
  #56
NYR Viper
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Most teams that would be interested in our pick would not be interested in absorbing that much salary at all

And while Drury, Roszy, and Redden are all scheduled to make less than their hit (I think all 3 are? I know Roszy is.), it's still much more than they're respectively worth.
I think Rozsival can be moved after this season. 3.5/season for the final 2 years is about what he is worth.

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Old
12-13-2009, 01:58 AM
  #57
Inferno
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Originally Posted by The Thomas J. View Post
Maybe Gordie Clark should be GM.
not maybe...should.

i trust him. i dont trust sather, or shoenfeld (he wants gomez and drury, retard), or messier (im sorry, i have my doubts about his ability to be a GM)

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Old
12-13-2009, 02:44 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
not maybe...should.

i trust him. i dont trust sather, or shoenfeld (he wants gomez and drury, retard), or messier (im sorry, i have my doubts about his ability to be a GM)
I actually think Messier would make a good GM (but maybe not tomorrow) simply because he actually cares about this organization and it's reputation. At this point, it feels like Sather is just collecting a paycheck from Dolan.

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Old
12-13-2009, 02:57 AM
  #59
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The Rangers need to fill up their young winger corps, not to mention that unless Stepan becomes a first liner, the Rangers won't have a first line center. Neither Anisimov nor Dubinsky will be a first liner. Step is having an excellent season in college, but nobody knows how he pans out. (Edit: Werek is also having an excellent season in the OHL.)

On the wing, we aren't doing well.

Ryan Bourque is not dominating the QMJHL like he was supposed to. Kreider is struggling in college. None of the other wingers have top-6 potential.

Right now, the best young winger in the system is Callahan. Not impressive.

The Rangers will need their first round pick to get a decent winger prospect. They took a good shot at Kreider, but he's not doing well enough to give me any confidence that he'll one day be a first or second liner.

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Old
12-13-2009, 03:12 AM
  #60
Inferno
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
The Rangers need to fill up their young winger corps, not to mention that unless Stepan becomes a first liner, the Rangers won't have a first line center. Neither Anisimov nor Dubinsky will be a first liner. Step is having an excellent season in college, but nobody knows how he pans out. (Edit: Werek is also having an excellent season in the OHL.)

On the wing, we aren't doing well.

Ryan Bourque is not dominating the QMJHL like he was supposed to. Kreider is struggling in college. None of the other wingers have top-6 potential.

Right now, the best young winger in the system is Callahan. Not impressive.

The Rangers will need their first round pick to get a decent winger prospect. They took a good shot at Kreider, but he's not doing well enough to give me any confidence that he'll one day be a first or second liner.
Grachev unquestionably does.

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Old
12-13-2009, 11:27 AM
  #61
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Considering where the Rangers are in the standings, no effin way do I trade that #1 away.

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Old
12-13-2009, 12:02 PM
  #62
EventHorizon
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
The common misconception is that stars are only available in the top-10 of each draft. The fact is, all of our promising young prospects (home grown) have come out of the mid-late 1st or beyond. Are they on the level of the Stamkos' of the world? No, but they're very good players that were taken thanks to a much improved scouting department.
Excellent point. I think a further part of this misconception is that teams win with nothing but homegrown talent. The truth is, the successful teams fill their holes with trades and good free agent signings. Sure they have the homegrown talent, but there's more to it than that. Whether the homegrown talent is top of the line or middle of the road, there are going to be holes. The smart GMs need to spend money intelligently to fill the holes. They don't throw Scott Gomez and Chris Drury 8 billion dollars to be 2nd and 3rd line centers. The Rangers have good home grown talent. If they had a GM that wisely filled the holes that they have, they have a team that could be challenging for the Conference lead. But they don't, so they aren't.

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Old
12-13-2009, 01:52 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
It seems like a lot of the people petitioning to do whatever it takes to rid ourselves of these contracts are the same ones who think we should be tanking for a lottery pick.

If these guys are driving our team into the ground, seems kind of counter-intuitive to want them gone, yeah?
I never have endorsed tanking if your talking about me.

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