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If we became sellers

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Old
12-13-2009, 11:56 AM
  #26
Beacon
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Originally Posted by Failure By Design View Post
I am all for a fire sale, keeping as many of our prospects and young guys as we can. Might not be a lot of super star UFA's out there this summer but a lot of good complimentary guys ( I know we have too many now). But these are guys whom add secondary scoring and still play other roles well. Not like now where we have 3 Ryan Callahan's but only need 1, 3 guys that are big but can't score etc...
We don't need more complimentary players. We are better off taking picks and then using them on high-risk, high-return guys like Ryan Bourque. Some will turn into Christian Dube, but some into Marc Savard or at least Mike York.

If the fire sale would bring back a first or second line winger through the draft, it would be worth it, big time!

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Old
12-13-2009, 12:02 PM
  #27
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i actually think Kotalik could be moved at the deadline to a team in the playoff race with a ****** powerplay. He does have 19 points in 30 games and is purely a PP specialist, but i can see a desperate team taking him.

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12-13-2009, 12:29 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Youre missing Girardi I think there Inferno, and hes a guy I dont mind keeping around for the right price (under 2 mil)

Hes just better suited for the third pair.
Girardi is a group II with salary arbitration rights this summer. He is going to get close to $3 million per. The following summer,Girardi is eligible for group III free agency if he signs a 1 year contract or his team accepts the 1 year arb award. In group III,Girardi will get in excess of $3 million.$3.5 million per.

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12-13-2009, 12:33 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Girardi is a group II with salary arbitration rights this summer. He is going to get close to $3 million per. The following summer,Girardi is eligible for group III free agency if he signs a 1 year contract or his team accepts the 1 year arb award. In group III,Girardi will get in excess of $3 million.$3.5 million per.
And, in my view, you don't pay 3rd pairing D-men that kind of money.

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12-13-2009, 12:46 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
And, in my view, you don't pay 3rd pairing D-men that kind of money.
3rd pair D? It wasn't that long ago Torts was building the team around Staal-Girardi and now Girardi is a 5th/6th D?

Arbitration inflates the salaries and Girardi is eligible for salary arbitration where the player NEVER loses.

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Old
12-13-2009, 12:48 PM
  #31
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Saw someone say in the GDT that Kotalik has a NMC like Drury.....so we are stuck with him too?

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12-13-2009, 12:49 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
3rd pair D? It wasn't that long ago Torts was building the team around Staal-Girardi and now Girardi is a 5th/6th D?

Arbitration inflates the salaries and Girardi is eligible for salary arbitration where the player NEVER loses.
I never understood that...Girardi has never as anything more than a solid 3rd-pairing D-man at his best. He makes some awful decisions with the puck.

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Old
12-13-2009, 01:25 PM
  #33
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No good UFA's out there this summer if the Rangers are able to move some of the big contracts. I'd take a look at Frolov (At the right price) and one of either Paul Martin or Anton Volchenkov.

I can also see the Rangers making an offer sheet to one of Bobby Ryan, Wolski, Setoguchi, Semin or Backstrom if they Rangers manage to get a top 3 draft pick.

In my ideal world, the Rangers are able to trade Higgins/Prospal/Kotalik/Rozsival and in the offseason waive Redden. I know there is not a chance in hell Drury will waive his NMC for either a trade or to be waived.

I think Volchenkov would be the Rangers biggest UFA target if they had the cap room to do so.

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Old
12-13-2009, 01:28 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
No good UFA's out there this summer if the Rangers are able to move some of the big contracts. I'd take a look at Frolov (At the right price) and one of either Paul Martin or Anton Volchenkov.

I can also see the Rangers making an offer sheet to one of Bobby Ryan, Wolski, Setoguchi, Semin or Backstrom if they Rangers manage to get a top 3 draft pick.

In my ideal world, the Rangers are able to trade Higgins/Prospal/Kotalik/Rozsival and in the offseason waive Redden. I know there is not a chance in hell Drury will waive his NMC for either a trade or to be waived.

I think Volchenkov would be the Rangers biggest UFA target if they had the cap room to do so.
Why would we offer sheet someone if we had a lottery pick??

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Old
12-13-2009, 01:32 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
I think Volchenkov would be the Rangers biggest UFA target if they had the cap room to do so.
Staal-Volchenkov

Now THERE'S a shutdown pairing.

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Old
12-13-2009, 01:33 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Why would we offer sheet someone if we had a lottery pick??
cant be havin one of hall, seguin, kabanov, fowler in the system.

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12-13-2009, 01:35 PM
  #37
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Im going to go ahead and say it outright. Not only is Girardi a #5 dman, but if he demands 3 mil, or gets anything close in arbitration, kiss his ass goodbye.

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Old
12-13-2009, 01:37 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Why would we offer sheet someone if we had a lottery pick??
The 2010 draft will be over and done with when July 1st roles around. So the picks that would be used for compensation for an offer sheet will be that for the 2011 draft.

So the Rangers would still have their 2010 picks to take (hopefully) one of Hall, Seguin, Kabonov.

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Old
12-13-2009, 01:39 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Im going to go ahead and say it outright. Not only is Girardi a #5 dman, but if he demands 3 mil, or gets anything close in arbitration, kiss his ass goodbye.
I think the Rangers should sell high on Girardi. If they can get a good return for him before the deadline, I say move him.

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Old
12-13-2009, 01:40 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
The 2010 draft will be over and done with when July 1st roles around. So the picks that would be used for compensation for an offer sheet will be that for the 2011 draft.

So the Rangers would still have their 2010 picks to take (hopefully) one of Hall, Seguin, Kabonov.
Good point. I'm an idiot.

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Old
12-13-2009, 01:41 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
Staal-Volchenkov

Now THERE'S a shutdown pairing.
Yes. One can only dream. Although I think they would be used together on the PK, not regular strength, so spread them out a bit.

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Old
12-13-2009, 01:42 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Good point. I'm an idiot.
lol its all good. The Rangers could afford to move their 2011 picks with the prospect depth in the system right now and if they get one of Hall/Sequin/Kabonov.

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Old
12-13-2009, 02:11 PM
  #43
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There are only 4 players who I would hope they would move at this deadline(or before):

Kotalik
Higgins
Prospal
Rozsival


I dont see a team taking Redden or Drury until the offseason(if at all) and I am not for moving the good young players like Girardi and Dubinsky. When they are moved the Rangers will need them to step up and play. If they play bad for the rest of the season then you can possibly look to move them in the offseason but Torts and Sather will know what they have with their young players and where they stand. It will be like an extended tryout for all of the young players trying to fill the holes in the lineup left by the players moved.

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Old
12-13-2009, 03:38 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Good point. I'm an idiot.
You're not the only one I read it that way too at first, had to think about it for a second.

Bobby Ryan please.

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Old
12-13-2009, 03:41 PM
  #45
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Is there any reason to believe that if there is a fire sale that this organization will bring back any talent? What does this team have to show for the sale just prior to the lockout?

I have zero confidence in this front office's ability to acquire talent.
I agree. And until Sather decides to retire, this organization will continue to spin its wheels.

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Old
12-13-2009, 03:44 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Saw someone say in the GDT that Kotalik has a NMC like Drury.....so we are stuck with him too?
I said I was not sure about the NMC (although it's pretty clear he does have a NTC). Of course, all they probably would need to do to get Lotalik to waive it would be to announce they are retaining Tortorella for next season. Bet he'd be out the door in a New York minute.

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Old
12-13-2009, 03:48 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Have no problem moving them and should be able to move them:
Higgins
Prospal
Kotalik
Rozsival
Brashear
Boyle
Parenteau
Lisin
Girardi
Brashear, really? I can't see anyone willingly taking him.

Rozsival is doubtful too, IMO.

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Old
12-13-2009, 03:48 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Unlike last time, there's really nothing here to sell. We should attempt to get rid of the Albatross contracts (Redden, Drury, Rosival), and we might find something of value for Prospal (who I don't think we should resign) and Higgins. I'm fine with keeping Callahan and Dubinsky, but on Stanley Cup contenders neither of them are first line players.
I don't think it's for lack of having players to sell, it's just different in a salary cap league.

Prospal, Higgins, Kotalik, Avery, Boyle, Brashear, and Voros could all play roles on a playoff team that may lack their strengths.

Prospal - Top 6 player, can contribute on special teams.
Higgins - Great guy to add to your 3rd line, he's got a no quit attitude and he creates a lot of chances. If and when he gets hot (he does have 3 points in the last 4 games somehow), he's going to put up some points.
Kotalik - This guy's been god awful for us and he's the definition of one-dimensional. The return on him would be pretty bad and another team would have to be pretty desperate considering we gave this clown 3 years, but a team that feels they have a legitimate cup team that wants to enhance their PP might do it...I guess...
Avery - I think he's solid value and we should keep him around, but if we really wanna tear it down we do need to get rid of some of our third-liners IMO and Avery falls in to that category. He could bring back some solid return if a team believes they can handle his antics. I DO think he's grown a lot since the incident in Dallas.
Boyle - 4th liner with 3rd line potential. Kills penalties, he's starting to use his size, doesn't shy away from dropping the gloves. Could be valuable to a playoff team.
Brashear - A team lacking an enforcer could be interested, he kind of falls in the same boat as Kotalik though. I think I'd actually rather keep Brash around if we end up with a lot of kids in the lineup. Not only do I get the feeling that he's a solid teammate, but I think we'll probably need some kind of veteran that can drop the gloves around to protect Gaborik and the kids.
Voros - I think a lot of people underestimate how desperate teams may be for an enforcer/guy with his size. He's had his flashes and streaks of offense, considering we'd probably be asking for peanuts in exchange, I could definitely see a team taking a chance.



I'm sure younger guys like Lisin, Dubinsky, Callahan, etc. hold some value. I'd rather keep Callahan and Dubinsky. I DONT think we need to completely tear this team apart, we just need to realize we've hit a wall with signing mediocore free agents and trading for projects like Lisin and Zherdev and just hoping they work out.

As far as defense goes, I'm sure Girardi is a guy we can move and could be part of a package for something good on offense. I think Roszy COULD be moved if he can string together a good streak of games where he's playing well, it'd be difficult though.

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Old
12-13-2009, 03:52 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
As a result of that fire sale, they got Dubinsky and Lisin (via Korpikoski).

If we could do another fire sale and get another Dubinsky-quality player (aka a young second liner), it would be worth it. We already have a lot of youth and prospects in the system, and adding a second line winger would be very useful.
Lisin? You consider him to be some sort of prize?

The 2004 fire sale was a total bust. You need to get more than 1 player out of such a reconstruction of the roster.

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Old
12-13-2009, 03:54 PM
  #50
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To be fair, Sather is generally much better with trades than with free agency so if he really wants to, I'm sure he can figure out how to get rid of one of the big three.

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