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12-13-2009, 02:49 PM
  #51
The Perfect Paradox
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
Who cares? We'll have at least 3 superstars on the team: Koval, Gabby and Lundqvist, plus maybe DZ turns into a superstar within 2 years.

And we'll have tons of youth coming our way in the next few seasons. We'll be in very good position, and won't need to sign UFAs.
How do you expect to keep Anisimov at the end of next season? Dubinsky and Cally? We'll lose some support players. Teams have lost with two star players. See the Ducks with Selanne and Kariya. Every contender needs a good support group.

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12-13-2009, 02:52 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by King Henrik 30 View Post
How do you expect to keep Anisimov at the end of next season? Dubinsky and Cally? We'll lose some support players. Teams have lost with two star players. See the Ducks with Selanne and Kariya. Every contender needs a good support group.
Because the guys on pace for like 30 points. Dubi scored 40 and 40 and got 1.75 mil, I cant see Artem getting too much more than that unless he becomes a new player.

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12-13-2009, 02:53 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by King Henrik 30 View Post
How do you expect to keep Anisimov at the end of next season? Dubinsky and Cally? We'll lose some support players. Teams have lost with two star players. See the Ducks with Selanne and Kariya. Every contender needs a good support group.
Anisimov won't be demanding a contract over 2 mil, nor will he receive one. Look at what Dubinsky received this year, Anisimov will probably receive a bit less than that.

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12-13-2009, 02:54 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by King Henrik 30 View Post
How do you expect to keep Anisimov at the end of next season? Dubinsky and Cally? We'll lose some support players. Teams have lost with two star players. See the Ducks with Selanne and Kariya. Every contender needs a good support group.
This is why I'm against a complete fire sale.

Great players, as we've seen with Gaborik, make players around them better. Lets say we do land Kovy. If we pencil him in on the 2nd line, we then have two lines capable of scoring goals at moments notice, like Gaborik can.

Why do you think the Penguins are so tough to defend against? You throw your top D pairing out there on one shift, next shift Malkin is on the ice and your on a mismatch.

Superstars take pressure off of role players. Its not crazy to think that with Kovy and (most) of our current role players, that we can seriously contend in the Eastern Conference.

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12-13-2009, 02:55 PM
  #55
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Kovalchuk Hall Gaborik

FAINTS





Umm yeah that's not happening...atleast the Kovalchuk part.

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12-13-2009, 02:58 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by levski87 View Post
Anisimov won't be demanding a contract over 2 mil, nor will he receive one. Look at what Dubinsky received this year, Anisimov will probably receive a bit less than that.
How can we speculate what Anisimov will receive after next season? We have no idea how he's going to finish this season nor what he'll accomplish next. If he finishes with 30-40 this year and pots 40-50 next year you can expect him to at least ask for more than $2MM. If he scores 50+, rejects his QO and checks out the market a team will gladly offer him up to $2.5MM at the risk of only losing a 2nd rounder.

Kris Versteeg has one 50 point season and he received $3MM.

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12-13-2009, 03:11 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by D713B View Post
How can we speculate what Anisimov will receive after next season? We have no idea how he's going to finish this season nor what he'll accomplish next. If he finishes with 30-40 this year and pots 40-50 next year you can expect him to at least ask for more than $2MM. If he scores 50+, rejects his QO and checks out the market a team will gladly offer him up to $2.5MM at the risk of only losing a 2nd rounder.

Kris Versteeg has one 50 point season and he received $3MM.
Kris Versteeg is a completely different issue.

As for Anisimov, yes you are right, but even still I don't see him getting more than 2 mil. Sather will hardball him just like he did with Dubinsky.

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12-13-2009, 03:15 PM
  #58
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Because the guys on pace for like 30 points. Dubi scored 40 and 40 and got 1.75 mil, I cant see Artem getting too much more than that unless he becomes a new player.
It's also his rookie season. Who knows how he is going to be after the end of next season? I think he'll get about a 2M deal.

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12-13-2009, 03:19 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by levski87 View Post
Kris Versteeg is a completely different issue.

As for Anisimov, yes you are right, but even still I don't see him getting more than 2 mil. Sather will hardball him just like he did with Dubinsky.
How is Versteeg different? Because they botched the paperwork? He was still looking at potential $2.5 million offer sheets before that. Besides all of Chicago's RFA's were honorable and didn't negotiate with other franchises. Any GM in this league would have gladly offered him that.

If Anisimov drops 50 next season you can bet the farm on GM's around the league willing to part with a 2nd rounder for him.

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12-13-2009, 03:21 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by EmDeeZee4MVP View Post
This is why I'm against a complete fire sale.

Great players, as we've seen with Gaborik, make players around them better. Lets say we do land Kovy. If we pencil him in on the 2nd line, we then have two lines capable of scoring goals at moments notice, like Gaborik can.

Why do you think the Penguins are so tough to defend against? You throw your top D pairing out there on one shift, next shift Malkin is on the ice and your on a mismatch.

Superstars take pressure off of role players. Its not crazy to think that with Kovy and (most) of our current role players, that we can seriously contend in the Eastern Conference.
It isn't crazy to think, but the point I'm trying to make is that your not going to be able to afford those support players. Acquiring Kovalchuk would take a miracle to begin with. We would most likely lose several of our support players that are currently on the team. I don't know if it's a risk I'm willing to take if I'm Sather.

I'm kind of neutral with the whole situation, just trying to show two sides of the story here.

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12-13-2009, 03:25 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Henrik 30 View Post
How do you expect to keep Anisimov at the end of next season? Dubinsky and Cally? We'll lose some support players. Teams have lost with two star players. See the Ducks with Selanne and Kariya. Every contender needs a good support group.
I'm more worried about losing Girardi and Staal, especially mostly because we can't afford to invest more money in to our defense with all that cash invested in Roszy and Redden.

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12-13-2009, 03:26 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by King Henrik 30 View Post
It isn't crazy to think, but the point I'm trying to make is that your not going to be able to afford those support players. Acquiring Kovalchuk would take a miracle to begin with. We would most likely lose several of our support players that are currently on the team. I don't know if it's a risk I'm willing to take if I'm Sather.

I'm kind of neutral with the whole situation, just trying to show two sides of the story here.
If I were the GM and there was a chance to add another elite level talent to my team, I go for it. it is much easier to add the secondary pieces than it is to add an elite player. That is just me.

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12-13-2009, 03:31 PM
  #63
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How is Versteeg different? Because they botched the paperwork? He was still looking at potential $2.5 million offer sheets before that. Besides all of Chicago's RFA's were honorable and didn't negotiate with other franchises. Any GM in this league would have gladly offered him that.

If Anisimov drops 50 next season you can bet the farm on GM's around the league willing to part with a 2nd rounder for him.
A big "IF" on that 50 point season for Anisimov. It's possible, but I don't think he hits that. We'll just see.

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12-13-2009, 03:32 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
If I were the GM and there was a chance to add another elite level talent to my team, I go for it. it is much easier to add the secondary pieces than it is to add an elite player. That is just me.
Spot on.

I even doubt we have to give up the farm for Kovalchuk.

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12-13-2009, 03:33 PM
  #65
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I'm more worried about losing Girardi and Staal, especially mostly because we can't afford to invest more money in to our defense with all that cash invested in Roszy and Redden.
I'm mostly worried about Staal. They were mentioned in my previous posts in this thread. But, everybody was running hypothetical situations where we were able to sign Staal, so I was warning them about Anisimov.

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12-13-2009, 03:35 PM
  #66
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If I were the GM and there was a chance to add another elite level talent to my team, I go for it. it is much easier to add the secondary pieces than it is to add an elite player. That is just me.
No, I understand and I'm actually neutral on the situation. I just thought it would be much easier to look at from both sides of the story. If Sather gets Kovalchuk, I'd be very excited. But if he doesn't, I'm really not going to be upset. I will become upset if we start to lose some key support players, though.

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12-13-2009, 03:37 PM
  #67
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A big "IF" on that 50 point season for Anisimov. It's possible, but I don't think he hits that. We'll just see.
Agreed, I'm not penciling him in for anything at all. I just think it would be foolish to assume we can lock AA up for less than $2MM after next season. I hope we do but Cally got more than $2MM. Even if he doesn't score 50 he could still be attractive to GM's for a 2nd rounder. If I'm Garth Snow I'd gladly sign him for $2.5 and send the Rangers my second rounder. They'd have their top three centers for the next decade.

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12-13-2009, 03:37 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by King Henrik 30 View Post
No, I understand and I'm actually neutral on the situation. I just thought it would be much easier to look at from both sides of the story. If Sather gets Kovalchuk, I'd be very excited. But if he doesn't, I'm really not going to be upset. I will become upset if we start to lose some key support players, though.
Yeah, depending on who they are. IMO the Devils have it right, they have their core that they decided to keep, the rest of the team can be turned over as time moves on. Getting that core together is the hard part.

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12-13-2009, 03:38 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by King Henrik 30 View Post
I'm mostly worried about Staal. They were mentioned in my previous posts in this thread. But, everybody was running hypothetical situations where we were able to sign Staal, so I was warning them about Anisimov.
I think basically the concern is that we may not be able to continue to keep all the guys we want to keep that are RFA's period like we pretty much have been despite the cap issues. Eventually it's going to catch up to us, especially if someone ends up developing in to a legitimate, clearcut top 6 forward, or a legitimate, clearcut top D pairing defenseman (which I think Staal AND Del Zotto are going to develop in to).

Every speaks of our defensive depth but there's really just a bunch of unproven guys...and other than MDZ and Staal, I'm not exactly overly excited with regards to Gilroy, Sanguinetti, McDonagh, as there's still a lot of things that need to fall in to place and still a lot of time before they'll be playing at the level they're capable of. Which is why in an ideal world I'd love to keep Girardi, at least for a little longer. Girardi's the kind of defenseman I'd love to have as a perennial 2nd or 3rd pair d-man for us. I think consistency in his game is going to come over time in terms of play in the defensive zone, with some offensive streaks as well. He'd really help stabalize the defense, especially considering other than Staal everyone else in our system seems to project to either a bottom pairing defenseman or an offensive defenseman.

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12-13-2009, 03:44 PM
  #70
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Yeah, depending on who they are. IMO the Devils have it right, they have their core that they decided to keep, the rest of the team can be turned over as time moves on. Getting that core together is the hard part.
Exactly. Losing key pieces to our core is what I'm afraid of happening. Constantly losing guys because of the cap, and then replacing them with prospects from the AHL and FA is going to hurt the team.

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12-13-2009, 03:50 PM
  #71
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I think basically the concern is that we may not be able to continue to keep all the guys we want to keep that are RFA's period like we pretty much have been despite the cap issues. Eventually it's going to catch up to us, especially if someone ends up developing in to a legitimate, clearcut top 6 forward, or a legitimate, clearcut top D pairing defenseman (which I think Staal AND Del Zotto are going to develop in to).

Every speaks of our defensive depth but there's really just a bunch of unproven guys...and other than MDZ and Staal, I'm not exactly overly excited with regards to Gilroy, Sanguinetti, McDonagh, as there's still a lot of things that need to fall in to place and still a lot of time before they'll be playing at the level they're capable of. Which is why in an ideal world I'd love to keep Girardi, at least for a little longer. Girardi's the kind of defenseman I'd love to have as a perennial 2nd or 3rd pair d-man for us. I think consistency in his game is going to come over time in terms of play in the defensive zone, with some offensive streaks as well. He'd really help stabalize the defense, especially considering other than Staal everyone else in our system seems to project to either a bottom pairing defenseman or an offensive defenseman.
I agree and would actually love to have a core of:
Staal-MDZ
Girardi- (hopefully one of our prospects)

The bottom pairing could be filled in with prospects who just don't reach their potential. Or of course a FA pick up who comes cheap.

If the Rangers do give up Girardi I'm going to be pretty angry, because we know what he's capable of at the NHL level. I'd say give him a 2 or 3 year deal. When/if one of the players are able to take over his role, then just don't re-sign him or trade him.

That's what concerns me about Kovalchuk as well, it might hurt our defensive potential. We might not be able to ice the best defense because of his salary. Kind of hard to word, sorry if that made no sense haha.

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12-13-2009, 04:01 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
If I were the GM and there was a chance to add another elite level talent to my team, I go for it. it is much easier to add the secondary pieces than it is to add an elite player. That is just me.
Yup, sums it up perfectly.

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12-13-2009, 04:06 PM
  #73
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Yup, sums it up perfectly.
Easier said then done. Some of us on here aren't really thinking about the long term repercussions of signing this guy.

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12-13-2009, 04:07 PM
  #74
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I agree with you, the point that I'm trying to make is that we have plenty people to re-sign, throwing money at Kovalchuk may not be the best thing for this organization in the long run.

Let's be hypothetical here. Considering we move both Redden and Roszival (Drury has a full NMC clause ,and I doubt he waives it). That means that we have about 11.5M to do multiple things this coming season. Get Staal locked up, which obviously means we let Girardi walk. The rest of the money would most likely be used to sign Kovalchuk. On the open market, he is worth AT LEAST 8M per. We then free up about 4.8 mill if we let Higgins, Prospal, and Girardi walk. Leaving us with 4.8 mill to sign 2 wingers and a defensemen. Lets not forget that after that off-season we have Cally, Dubinsky, Anisimov, Gilroy and Sanguinetti the next season.

I don't know about you guys, but I would much rather have our team grow and hopefully become a contender. Sure, having a top of line of Kovy and Gaborik would be incredible, but the team around them would suck pretty bad.

Again, it's fun to speculate and dream. Is it possible Kovalchuk comes to NY? Sure. Is it the best option? No, because it will cripple us for years to come, unless we can get rid of all 3 of those terrible contracts. But Kovalchuk to NY is pretty much a pipe dream.
I agree, its a more complex situation than I implied earlier. As HockeViper says though, and my thinking is here - its much easier to add the complimentary pieces that it is the Superstars. When they become available, you get them, if its at all feasible.

Personally, I think I'd rather see us tank and get in the lottery and grab one of the two hot prospects. But, if we did go for Kovy, one in addition to freeing space in the ways you mentioned, we could be "ruthless" with Drury. Tell him he will be scratched and won't play, and give him the option to 1) be traded or 2) retire. This assumes he wouldn't accept a move to Hartford, which would be the second best option after a trade. While we lose defensive ability with him gone, his offense is now non-existent, and what he brings can in no way justify his $7mm cap hit. He has to go, one way or another.

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12-13-2009, 04:39 PM
  #75
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Easier said then done. Some of us on here aren't really thinking about the long term repercussions of signing this guy.
I'm not sure if that was directed at me but I will respond anyways.

I understand where you are coming from about not being able to resign the players who are going to be needed elsewhere, it could turn into a problem. But if watching Gaborik this season has taught me anything it is this, elite level talent will always make the players around them better. Having those two on the same team means that the only thing left is a solid shut-down d-man(Staal) and PP QB(MDZ) and the team will be a perennial powerhouse.

It allows other players to be comfortable knowing they have 2 players who can take over any game at any time. it allows them to play their game and where they feel comfortable. When players are comfortable, it reflects in their stats and the teams stats, thats why teams like Pitt and Detroit have been good. Their role players know what they have to do for the team to succeed and in doing so are rewarded by getting points.

Also, signing Kovalchuk would mean a long-term deal, I am talking 8-10 years. it also would mean Redden and Rozsival and possibly Drury would be out of here clearing the space needed.

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