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(#31): 12/12/2009 Buffalo Sabres @ New York Rangers 7:00pm MSG (HD)

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Old
12-13-2009, 06:31 PM
  #626
Claxton
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You guys are no fun

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Old
12-13-2009, 11:24 PM
  #627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckhead71 View Post
for those of you talking about selling at the deadline... FORGET IT.

It will never happen, Dolan would not allow it. He wants (needs) them to at least play one round of playoff hockey for revenue. They're gonna do anything they can to get there even if they fall short.

This is the New York Rangers, not the Pittsburgh Penguins. (although I would rather do what the Penguins did)

The Penguins did not tank.
They were forced to stink because being a small market in the old NHL they NO money.
They had to sell Jagr and Kovalev for cash.
They could not afford decent scouts or even a goaltending coach.
This was not scheme to collapse, it happened naturally due to:
-No money, no farm system, old NHL economics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
If I am Sather I start selling now. They have an abundance of players who can play, give the younger players a shot to play. Move Higgins, Rozsival, Prospal and allow players like Lisin, Parenteau, Boyle play more minutes. Start to figure out who should be kept this offseason and who shouldnt.
You can't be serious?
Sather's farm system stinks.
I do not understand why HF has them ranked as number 3...the Rangers have NEVER produced top line or top DMEN home grown talent since the days of Leetch and Kovalev.

Henrik was just a fluke.

Lisin/Parenteau are 3rd liners.
Boyle is an AHLer.

We have NO farm system.
We have a collection of 3rd line forwards and 3rd line defenseman.

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Old
12-13-2009, 11:33 PM
  #628
WhipNash27
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Lisin/Parenteau are 3rd liners.
Boyle is an AHLer.
That's our farm system? Do some HW...

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Old
12-13-2009, 11:35 PM
  #629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinforcer View Post
The Penguins did not tank.
They were forced to stink because being a small market in the old NHL they NO money.
They had to sell Jagr and Kovalev for cash.
They could not afford decent scouts or even a goaltending coach.
This was not scheme to collapse, it happened naturally due to:
-No money, no farm system, old NHL economics.
Funny how that always seems to happen every 20 years or so when there is a generational talent to be had.

And the NHLs welfare system has done wonders to grow the sport. The penguins are champs, there is economic balance and no one outside of die hard hockey fans could give two spits about the NHL.

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Old
12-13-2009, 11:39 PM
  #630
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Funny how that always seems to happen every 20 years or so when there is a generational talent to be had.

And the NHLs welfare system has done wonders to grow the sport. The penguins are champs, there is economic balance and no one outside of die hard hockey fans could give two spits about the NHL.
That team was done as soon as they sold Jagr to the Caps.
He single handidly kept them afloat from the late 90s.
They had no farm system and nobody else, once they could not afford him, it was over.


The team stank not because of a conspiracy but because of economic balance were small markets had no chance and were forced to sell players.
They were bad economically because of debts from previous ownership and being a small market.
The notion that PIT deliberately tanked and is a bandwagon town is absurd.
Buffalo and St. Louis, as well as Ottawa, Edmonton, Calgary, and Vancouver had similar problems----bankrupacy---thanks to the old economics.

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Old
12-13-2009, 11:39 PM
  #631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinforcer View Post
I do not understand why HF has them ranked as number 3...the Rangers have NEVER produced top line or top DMEN home grown talent since the days of Leetch and Kovalev.

You are partially right. We haven't produced anyone significant for a while. Then again we only started drafting well in last 2-3 years and there are quite few guys who could make significant impacts in NHL. Because of that we are ranked #3.

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Old
12-13-2009, 11:40 PM
  #632
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Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
That's our farm system? Do some HW...
Nobody in the Rangers farm system seems to be a top line player...on O or D.

Seems more or less the same...a bunch of Staal and Dubis....3rd line forwards and Dmen who would be good complementary players.

You can't win unless you produce 1st and 2nd line talent, and I don't see much.

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Old
12-13-2009, 11:44 PM
  #633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinforcer View Post
Nobody in the Rangers farm system seems to be a top line player...on O or D.

Seems more or less the same...a bunch of Staal and Dubis....3rd line forwards and Dmen who would be good complementary players.

You can't win unless you produce 1st and 2nd line talent, and I don't see much.
So how would you describe the following players?

Grachev
McDonagh
Sanguinetti
Stepan
Staal
MDZ
Anisimov
Werek

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Old
12-13-2009, 11:59 PM
  #634
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
So how would you describe the following players?

Grachev
McDonagh
Sanguinetti
Stepan
Staal
MDZ
Anisimov
Werek
Grachev-top 6 celling...boom or bust type
McDonagh-maybe a #4....#3 tops
Sanguinetti-not expecting more than a 3rd pair...MDZ already passed him and PHO rejected him
Staal-3rd line pair on a contender...the guy is not that special...he has no offense, none, and is not a shut down, crease clearing, solid defenseman...he is a good defensive defenseman...but not great....not physical
MDZ-#3 or 4.....too soon to tell....1st good month....nothing since....he is young....but I don't think he's top pair talent...it just looks that way since we have no defense and no recent farm system grads
Anisimov-3rd liner....easily


None of these guys are really core players on a good team...these are not all stars or solid, consistent top 6 or top dman pairs.
Sorry.

The easiest thing to do is overrate a prospect.
The most objective is to look at stats/watch the game/and go over the last 15 years when we get excited about players (Prucha/Kloucek/etc.)

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Old
12-14-2009, 12:04 AM
  #635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinforcer View Post
Grachev-top 6 celling...boom or bust type
McDonagh-maybe a #4....#3 tops
Sanguinetti-not expecting more than a 3rd pair...MDZ already passed him and PHO rejected him
Staal-3rd line pair on a contender...the guy is not that special...he has no offense, none, and is not a shut down, crease clearing, solid defenseman...he is a good defensive defenseman...but not great....not physical
MDZ-#3 or 4.....too soon to tell....1st good month....nothing since....he is young....but I don't think he's top pair talent...it just looks that way since we have no defense and no recent farm system grads
Anisimov-3rd liner....easily


None of these guys are really core players on a good team...these are not all stars or solid, consistent top 6 or top dman pairs.
Sorry.

The easiest thing to do is overrate a prospect.
The most objective is to look at stats/watch the game/and go over the last 15 years when we get excited about players (Prucha/Kloucek/etc.)
I guess we will have to wait for 3-5 years before we know but There are people who overrate prospects, I think you underrate them. You think Staal is a bottom pairing d-man? he was invited to the Canadian Olympic teams tryout.

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12-14-2009, 12:10 AM
  #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
I guess we will have to wait for 3-5 years before we know but There are people who overrate prospects, I think you underrate them. You think Staal is a bottom pairing d-man? he was invited to the Canadian Olympic teams tryout.
HV87 - Man, that avatar is Hysterical! I need a new diaper after seeing that.

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Old
12-14-2009, 12:13 AM
  #637
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Originally Posted by benneyb View Post
HV87 - Man, that avatar is Hysterical! I need a new diaper after seeing that.
Thanks. They are in one of these threads. There are a bunch that are hysterical.

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Old
12-14-2009, 12:16 AM
  #638
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
I guess we will have to wait for 3-5 years before we know but There are people who overrate prospects, I think you underrate them. You think Staal is a bottom pairing d-man? he was invited to the Canadian Olympic teams tryout.
Yes...fans of teams way overrate players.
A prospect does not mean a star...it means somebody who may have a career in the NHL of some sort.

The Rangers have prospects...but I am highly skeptical they are impact prospects as opposed to 3rd liners who chip in goals occasionally.

The last 15 years and the best we have (outside of the fluke Henrik) is Staal.
On a contender he would be no better than a #4 because he is a B defender...not an A....with no offense and not much of a physical presence.

Dubi/Callahan/Prucha/Anisimov........this is what NYR prospects normally are.
Borderline 3rd liners who may last 3-7 years in the NHL.

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12-14-2009, 12:18 AM
  #639
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
Thanks. They are in one of these threads. There are a bunch that are hysterical.
Where are they? I want a tank avatar.

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Old
12-14-2009, 12:20 AM
  #640
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Originally Posted by LeetchisGod View Post
Where are they? I want a tank avatar.
The "Dear Santa" thread on the 3rd page.

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Old
12-14-2009, 12:22 AM
  #641
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
The "Dear Santa" thread on the 3rd page.
Thanks a lot

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Old
12-14-2009, 12:27 AM
  #642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinforcer View Post
Grachev-top 6 celling...boom or bust type
McDonagh-maybe a #4....#3 tops
Sanguinetti-not expecting more than a 3rd pair...MDZ already passed him and PHO rejected him
Staal-3rd line pair on a contender...the guy is not that special...he has no offense, none, and is not a shut down, crease clearing, solid defenseman...he is a good defensive defenseman...but not great....not physical
MDZ-#3 or 4.....too soon to tell....1st good month....nothing since....he is young....but I don't think he's top pair talent...it just looks that way since we have no defense and no recent farm system grads
Anisimov-3rd liner....easily


None of these guys are really core players on a good team...these are not all stars or solid, consistent top 6 or top dman pairs.
Sorry.

The easiest thing to do is overrate a prospect.
The most objective is to look at stats/watch the game/and go over the last 15 years when we get excited about players (Prucha/Kloucek/etc.)
I see your concern, but I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment of this teams prospects. MDZ and Anisimov are both rookies, you can blame Torts for some of AA's downfalls right now. His confidence is down I am sure after being given a total of 1.5 games on the first line. MDZ is an offensive D-man so of course he will struggle on a team that cannot score.

Sangs I think has turned into a well rounded D-man who deserves a shot.
McDonagh looks like a man amongst boys in college, still needs some work but he is looking pretty good who knows how it translates.
Staal was fine until Torts got his hands on him and demanded more offensive output... It's not the kids game have you ever seen the Staal Brothers youtube video where they shoot pucks at targets in the barn??? Yeah Marc had a hard time hitting the barn wall let a lone the objects set up for them to shoot at.
Grachev you are right about, I think for him to succeed they have to give him a 2nd line role when he is ready not a 3rd or 4th line limited role.

I am not saying you are wrong but I guess we will have to wait and see.

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Old
12-14-2009, 01:16 PM
  #643
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To be objective, i don't think Rein is completely wrong in his analysis, though I do think he has some of our guys ranked way too low.

Ranking the Rangers is hard. They haven't produced a guy like Toews or Phaneuf, but they have produced quite a few NHL players.

Somewhere between the flash of a team with one elite guy and not much else and a team with a bunch of depth prospects, you'll probably find the Rangers.

I don't think they are #3 in the NHL, but I'd probably put them in the top 10.

Like most things the truth is probably in the middle - which is often the lonliest place to be. Some people like to overproject kids and other people try to take the safe road and never project anyone above a bottom six forward of third pairing defenseman. Neither extreme is accurate.

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12-14-2009, 01:27 PM
  #644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
To be objective, i don't think Rein is completely wrong in his analysis, though I do think he has some of our guys ranked way too low.
I don't think he's completely wrong either. Just 3/4 wrong

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