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Ilya Kovalchuk (Rumor Update: 01/02/10) Post #432

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Old
12-13-2009, 06:13 PM
  #76
TheZherdev
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I rather try to sign the guy in the off-season. No garuntee he signs with us if we trade for him. And there is no way we win with him this year. This is the only feasable option really. This is what we have to do.
1. Tank- Get Taylor Hall/Seguin
2. Buy out drury
3. Trade/waive redden and roszival to hartford. We are the rangers. Dolan obviously doesnt care what sather does with this team...
4. Sign kovalchuk
5. Sign a $2-3mm d-man or 2.
6. More than enough money at that point to re-sign everyone else.

All of this is workable. Will Sather do it? No his ego will get in the way.

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12-13-2009, 07:12 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Failure By Design View Post
Continue on this downward spiral, sell at the deadline to free up space. Draft an excellent prospect (hopefully top 3) and sign Kovalchuk to a decent contract... Sign me up now.

Only thing I will not support is trading our farm/picks.
It would be amazing to have Kovalchuk and Seguin on the team next year. Throw in Gabby and Lundqvist, plus all our other youth like DZ, Dubi, Staal, etc., and this team is pretty much guaranteed to win the Cup unless it's badly, horribly mismanaged.

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12-13-2009, 07:16 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
It would be amazing to have Kovalchuk and Seguin on the team next year. Throw in Gabby and Lundqvist, plus all our other youth like DZ, Dubi, Staal, etc., and this team is pretty much guaranteed to win the Cup unless it's badly, horribly mismanaged.
Exactly, those moves would bring us up to par with Pittsburgh, Chicago, Washington, etc... We would be an NHL elite team for years to come IMHO.

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12-13-2009, 07:22 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by TheZherdev View Post
I rather try to sign the guy in the off-season. No garuntee he signs with us if we trade for him. And there is no way we win with him this year. This is the only feasable option really. This is what we have to do.
1. Tank- Get Taylor Hall/Seguin
2. Buy out drury
3. Trade/waive redden and roszival to hartford. We are the rangers. Dolan obviously doesnt care what sather does with this team...
4. Sign kovalchuk
5. Sign a $2-3mm d-man or 2.
6. More than enough money at that point to re-sign everyone else.

All of this is workable. Will Sather do it? No his ego will get in the way.
Exactly..Dolan already told Sather he has the job for as long as he wants

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12-13-2009, 07:30 PM
  #80
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I agree, its a more complex situation than I implied earlier. As HockeViper says though, and my thinking is here - its much easier to add the complimentary pieces that it is the Superstars. When they become available, you get them, if its at all feasible.

Personally, I think I'd rather see us tank and get in the lottery and grab one of the two hot prospects. But, if we did go for Kovy, one in addition to freeing space in the ways you mentioned, we could be "ruthless" with Drury. Tell him he will be scratched and won't play, and give him the option to 1) be traded or 2) retire. This assumes he wouldn't accept a move to Hartford, which would be the second best option after a trade. While we lose defensive ability with him gone, his offense is now non-existent, and what he brings can in no way justify his $7mm cap hit. He has to go, one way or another.
For the first time I agree with the whole tanking situation. We're not really tanking, we just suck really bad. Its not like were putting out a bad team to purposely lose, we tried to put out a good team, that just sucks.

As for Drury, we all wish he was gone strictly because of the contract, but I doubt the Rangers do anything unclassy to him. Fortunately, he has been a class act for this organization, despite his salary. With that said, I doubt they would scratch him and tell him he can only play if he waives his NMC. The Rangers organization has never did something like that in recent years. I do agree with you though, he has to go sooner or later, especially if we are perusing Kovalchuk around the deadline/FA.

That was a very unique way of getting rid of him though, different from the others I usually see

Maybe he needs to get burned when the opposing team scores an OT winner, so he'll get sent down.

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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
I'm not sure if that was directed at me but I will respond anyways.

I understand where you are coming from about not being able to resign the players who are going to be needed elsewhere, it could turn into a problem. But if watching Gaborik this season has taught me anything it is this, elite level talent will always make the players around them better. Having those two on the same team means that the only thing left is a solid shut-down d-man(Staal) and PP QB(MDZ) and the team will be a perennial powerhouse.

It allows other players to be comfortable knowing they have 2 players who can take over any game at any time. it allows them to play their game and where they feel comfortable. When players are comfortable, it reflects in their stats and the teams stats, thats why teams like Pitt and Detroit have been good. Their role players know what they have to do for the team to succeed and in doing so are rewarded by getting points.

Also, signing Kovalchuk would mean a long-term deal, I am talking 8-10 years. it also would mean Redden and Rozsival and possibly Drury would be out of here clearing the space needed.
It wasn't directed towards you, but I also understand where you are coming from. I've actually never thought about losing key players in detail, but from what you said it makes sense why Sather wouldn't mind losing those key players.

If we could have them rotate time on the first and second lines every other game, and lock up MDZ, Staal and hopefully another home grown player, this team would be set.

Excellent post, never really thought about the "support players" that way.

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12-13-2009, 08:30 PM
  #81
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I'm not trying to rain on the parade but can the Rangers really afford another star? Kovalchuk would probably fetch 10 million on the open market from a team loaded with cap space. Tying up that much salary into a player doesn't seem good for a team that already has a lot of bad contracts. Even if you buy them out there will obviously be a cap hit for a long time.

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12-13-2009, 08:33 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by IslesDude View Post
I'm not trying to rain on the parade but can the Rangers really afford another star? Kovalchuk would probably fetch 10 million on the open market from a team loaded with cap space. Tying up that much salary into a player doesn't seem good for a team that already has a lot of bad contracts. Even if you buy them out there will obviously be a cap hit for a long time.
its highly unlikely, lets just say that. But we have no idea who will or wont be on this team next year.

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12-13-2009, 08:54 PM
  #83
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Normally I wouldn't want to spend assets at the deadline for a player who we have no guarantee will re-sign(Antropov), but if I'm the GM I make every effort to get Kovalchuk locked up for a long, long time. Is it safe to assume that our odds of signing him increase if he actually plays for the Rangers for a few months? I think the answer is maybe a little. And because I believe it might increase our chances of signing him even a little, I do it- because he is a guarantee of AT LEAST 80 points a season - easily more playing on a pp with Gaborik and MDZ. We would have all the offensive threat that Chicago and San Jose and Pittsburgh have. And we'd have a terrific goalie to to go along with the offense and all we'd need to do is get the role-players in place and add one solid defenseman.

If we trade for him and can't re-sign him(Isles and Smyth) it would be a big blow but we'd still have probably off-loaded one of our bad contracts in the trade and we'd still have enough cap space to actually make some moves and/or signings.

I hope Sather goes for Kovalchuk hard and I think he will because he probably feels vindicated by the Gaborik signing - finally a huge contract actually pays off!

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12-13-2009, 11:20 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by King Henrik 30 View Post
Just look at my previous post above. It's possible, but my gut is telling me it isn't worth it. For the people who think it's the best move, I respect that opinion. But I really believe taking his salary on will make our team have a TERRIBLE supporting cast.

Agree. A contract that was mentioned earlier this season was around 11 mill per season, now that's around 20% of the cap. Good luck building a contender around that.

While I dont see him getting that much if he hits free agency (Thrashers have to overpay) I do see him getting Ovie's money (9 to 9.5 mill a year).

Chances of us signing Kovy is about as same as us trading Redden or Drury. Pretty slim.

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Old
12-14-2009, 01:18 AM
  #85
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Get Him!

The defensive system is a must-see-over. Henrik is alone sometimes. Devils sucks they always plays too save, but they can score too.


Get Kovy!

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Old
12-14-2009, 01:39 AM
  #86
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Kovalchuk is highly unrealistic given our cap situation. We are better off tanking for Hall/Seguin. By the time those guys command big dollars, some of our horrible contracts will be gone.

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12-14-2009, 02:15 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by EmDeeZee4MVP View Post
Hello All,

I'm new to this board but have been reading many of your insightful posts for quite awhile. Anyways, forgive me if this topic has been discussed a million times already but I wanted to get everybody's thoughts on Ilya Kovalchuk.

I understand that he just recently got back in the Thrashers lineup and Atlanta currently sits in the 7th slot in the conference. However, hypothetically speaking, if Atlanta falls out of the race close to the trade deadline, and considering Ilya Kovalchuk is an unrestricted FA at the end of the season, can you foresee the Thrashers packaging him up in a deal as a rental?

I'm not sure what the Rangers would be able to package in a trade, but I imagine the likes of Roszival must be included in the deal for cap reasons and plus we have a stock load of bright young Def. that we can add as pieces in a package. I know this is a stretch, but when the Rangers were rumored to trade for Heatley, Murray was persistent on asking for Dubi as part of the main package. If we were to offer the Thrashers Dubi + (young D) + low draft pick and Roszival, do you think that package would at all attract the Thrashers? I love Dubi but a trade like that would immediately put us over the top.

Thanks!
do you mean over the top of the salary cap?

getting Kovy doesn't help our team identity issue, our leadership, or our toughness.

how many times do we (NYR) have to go down the superstar path? We all know its imperative to have one here, but why two? Becasue it worked out so well in the past? This franchise is doomed. nuff said.

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12-14-2009, 03:37 AM
  #88
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If he does hit the open market next season, do we go balls to the wall to sign him?

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12-14-2009, 06:10 AM
  #89
Peter Sidorkiewicz
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Originally Posted by levski87 View Post
I think you we need to look at the Marian Hossa type deal that Atlanta received when they dealt him to Pitts.

Colby Armstrong, Erik Christensen, prospect Angelo Esposito, 1st round pick

Dubinsky, Rozsival/Redden/Drury (has to be one of them), Krieder/Sanguinetti, 1st round pick

Seems plausible. You can even throw in a conditional 2nd if he re-signs.


Truth is, Sather MUST go for Kovalchuk. Players like this guy rarely ever become available during FA. How many 50 goal scorers are out there? This guy has proven he can do it a few times and hes now entering his prime.

Kovalchuk-Prospal-Gaborik ... Main problem is they are both wingers and we have no depth down the middle, but we can only hope stepan comes in and fills his role.
1. Kovalchuk is worth more than Hossa.
2. Atlanta would be trying to get the best possible deal if they decide they can't re-sign him. Why would they accommodate New York's cap hell by agree to take Rozsival or Redden when they are not needed. Enstrom, Bogosian, Kubina are way better and Ron Hainsey is a similar type player with a big cap hit too. The thrashers don't need another 5mil+ d-man for the bottom pairing.
3. Atlanta will definitely request Staal, Dubinsky, 1st round pick and a top prospect to be part of the package, so unless you're are willing to give up quality youth both established and untried, don't waste your time enquiring about his services.
4. Have you rangers fans ask yourself why Kovalchuk would leave Atlanta to go to a lesser team? I think he would prefer to play on a playoff team. If it weren't for Lundqvist and Gaborik, New York would be vying for a lottery pick.

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12-14-2009, 06:32 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Sidorkiewicz View Post
1. Kovalchuk is worth more than Hossa.
2. Atlanta would be trying to get the best possible deal if they decide they can't re-sign him. Why would they accommodate New York's cap hell by agree to take Rozsival or Redden when they are not needed. Enstrom, Bogosian, Kubina are way better and Ron Hainsey is a similar type player with a big cap hit too. The thrashers don't need another 5mil+ d-man for the bottom pairing.
3. Atlanta will definitely request Staal, Dubinsky, 1st round pick and a top prospect to be part of the package, so unless you're are willing to give up quality youth both established and untried, don't waste your time enquiring about his services.
4. Have you rangers fans ask yourself why Kovalchuk would leave Atlanta to go to a lesser team? I think he would prefer to play on a playoff team. If it weren't for Lundqvist and Gaborik, New York would be vying for a lottery pick.
2 games over .500 and you think your team is not "lesser" and is a "Playoff team" ? I remember the last time the thrashers had more points than the rangers and made the playoffs....ahhh yes the word SWEEPED comes to mind.

Come back to me when its not still december 2009 and atlanta is still in the playoff picture.

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12-14-2009, 07:08 AM
  #91
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2 games over .500 and you think your team is not "lesser" and is a "Playoff team" ? I remember the last time the thrashers had more points than the rangers and made the playoffs....ahhh yes the word SWEEPED comes to mind.

Come back to me when its not still december 2009 and atlanta is still in the playoff picture.
Atlanta shouldn't be in the NHL. Their building is always empty. They are a welfare case looking to collect their revenue sharing check. They lost the Flames to Calgary and Bettman put another NHL team back in Atlanta? Every fan has their own vendor at the game.

They have basically offered Kovalchuk a blank check and he hasn't signed the deal.

He really doesn't want to be there.

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12-14-2009, 07:50 AM
  #92
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Atlanta shouldn't be in the NHL. Their building is always empty. They are a welfare case looking to collect their revenue sharing check. They lost the Flames to Calgary and Bettman put another NHL team back in Atlanta? Every fan has their own vendor at the game.

They have basically offered Kovalchuk a blank check and he hasn't signed the deal.

He really doesn't want to be there.
But why would he want to be more in New York?

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12-14-2009, 08:16 AM
  #93
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But why would he want to be more in New York?
Judging by your answer,you have never been to New York.

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12-14-2009, 08:29 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Atlanta shouldn't be in the NHL. Their building is always empty. They are a welfare case looking to collect their revenue sharing check. They lost the Flames to Calgary and Bettman put another NHL team back in Atlanta? Every fan has their own vendor at the game.

They have basically offered Kovalchuk a blank check and he hasn't signed the deal.

He really doesn't want to be there.
There is no reason to insult us like that. This topic is about what it would take to get Kovalchuk. Go post on the TSN comments about how much you hate non traditional markets. Let's move Colorado and the Isles too. They play in front of an empty arena as well.

On topic i'd bet on him signing in the KHL. With Medvedev meeting with him recently it really seems a lot more likely. If Kovalchuk wants a cup he'll take a discount for an established contender. If it's all about money he'll go to the KHL.

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12-14-2009, 08:38 AM
  #95
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There is no reason to insult us like that. This topic is about what it would take to get Kovalchuk. Go post on the TSN comments about how much you hate non traditional markets.
It's not an insult. It's a response to the other guy who asked why would Kovalchuk leave Atlanta for a lesser team. Lesser team? That's an insult. What player who knows anything about the tradition and history of the NHL wouldn't want to play in an original 6 NHL market over Atlanta,Georgia?

New York,Boston,Chicago,Detroit,Toronto and Montreal.

Where are the fans? Why hasn't the player signed the contract? Is it ownership not willing to commit? If that is the case,then that's a bigger problem for the NHL.

Maybe the player doesn't want to commit to the team. Why would that be? The money offer seems to be there. You tell me. Why hasn't Kovalchuk re-signed with Atlanta?


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12-14-2009, 08:54 AM
  #96
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I doubt Kovy leaves Atlanta.

IMO, I think we should pass on him as a rental. This team has more holes than even Kovalchuk could fix. Wait for him to hit FA then get him.

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12-14-2009, 09:00 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Peter Sidorkiewicz View Post
1. Kovalchuk is worth more than Hossa.
2. Atlanta would be trying to get the best possible deal if they decide they can't re-sign him. Why would they accommodate New York's cap hell by agree to take Rozsival or Redden when they are not needed. Enstrom, Bogosian, Kubina are way better and Ron Hainsey is a similar type player with a big cap hit too. The thrashers don't need another 5mil+ d-man for the bottom pairing.
3. Atlanta will definitely request Staal, Dubinsky, 1st round pick and a top prospect to be part of the package, so unless you're are willing to give up quality youth both established and untried, don't waste your time enquiring about his services.
4. Have you rangers fans ask yourself why Kovalchuk would leave Atlanta to go to a lesser team? I think he would prefer to play on a playoff team. If it weren't for Lundqvist and Gaborik, New York would be vying for a lottery pick.
If that's the package DW is requesting for a rented Kovalchuk, I guess he really is dumber than we all thought. No team will give up 2 good, young, solid players, a top prospect, and a 1st for a rental. No chance. Look at the trades made over the past 3 seasons. ALL of them were significantly less than we all thought it would be.

Sign him for 10 years, maybe then you'll get that type of package.

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12-14-2009, 09:37 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Peter Sidorkiewicz View Post
1. Kovalchuk is worth more than Hossa.
Undoubtedly true.

Quote:
2. Atlanta would be trying to get the best possible deal if they decide they can't re-sign him. Why would they accommodate New York's cap hell by agree to take Rozsival or Redden when they are not needed. Enstrom, Bogosian, Kubina are way better and Ron Hainsey is a similar type player with a big cap hit too. The thrashers don't need another 5mil+ d-man for the bottom pairing.
Another good point.

Quote:
3. Atlanta will definitely request Staal, Dubinsky, 1st round pick and a top prospect to be part of the package, so unless you're are willing to give up quality youth both established and untried, don't waste your time enquiring about his services.
This is where you start to lose me. As good as Kovalchuk is, he would still be a rental. Asking for 4 extremely good young players to be part of the package is a little ridiculous. Unless he comes signed to a deal, no team is giving you that much. Especially if Atlanta refuses to take salary back.

Quote:
4. Have you rangers fans ask yourself why Kovalchuk would leave Atlanta to go to a lesser team? I think he would prefer to play on a playoff team. If it weren't for Lundqvist and Gaborik, New York would be vying for a lottery pick.
Culture, for one. More exposure to a larger fanbase as well. Playing in a market like NY will raise Kovalchuks stock compared to the Ovechkins and Malkins of the league.

Yes, the Rangers are currently in the dumps, but it's not as if we're entering some long, drawn out rebuilding process here. Next season we should be in much better shape with guys like Grachev (hopefully) making the roster and if we finish in the top-10, we should have added a potential impact forward to an already strong stable of prospects. Add Kovalchuk to that mix and we're in great shape.

I'd be willing to be that no more than 2 years after Kovalchuk joined the Rangers, we'd be making a deep playoff run. Of course this is all moot since the Rangers can't afford Kovy unless he takes one of those new CBA-workaround deals.

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12-14-2009, 10:04 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
This is where you start to lose me. As good as Kovalchuk is, he would still be a rental. Asking for 4 extremely good young players to be part of the package is a little ridiculous. Unless he comes signed to a deal, no team is giving you that much. Especially if Atlanta refuses to take salary back.
If Kovalchuk wants to be a Ranger, he would be better suited to wait until the summer and then sign. That way the Rangers get a better pick. Also, wouldn't it stand to reason that Kovalchuk would want to play on a team that has Staal, Dubinsky and whatever that #1 pick turns into?

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12-14-2009, 10:23 AM
  #100
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I'm not trying to rain on the parade but can the Rangers really afford another star? Kovalchuk would probably fetch 10 million on the open market from a team loaded with cap space. Tying up that much salary into a player doesn't seem good for a team that already has a lot of bad contracts. Even if you buy them out there will obviously be a cap hit for a long time.
It really would have to be a long term deal. 10 years minimum with money coming off on the end to bring the cap hit down.

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