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Old
12-14-2009, 08:27 AM
  #76
Bleed Ranger Blue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
theres no way i would move cally or dubinsky for Mueller. none whatsoever.
Normally, Id disagree, and heres why.

If not for the Zherdev power outage under Tortorella, I would think that Mueller would be the perfect type of player for Torts to mold. Heres a guy that possesses all sorts of talent, but needs more of a kick in the ass than anything else to get his game going. Ive been saying for months now that Tortorella is 8 parts motivator and 2 parts hockey mind.

Conversely, Callahan is the exact opposite of Mueller. Hes a guy that doesnt possess the inherant talent, but busts his ass each and every night. Seems to be theres not much more Torts can do with him than just say "Go out and play"

But the fact that Tortorella lost a guy like Zherdev at the end of last season and into the playoffs makes me balk at the previous philosophy I explained above. I dont know what to think anymore after the brutal hockey we've seen for about 25 games now. I dont know what kind of players will blossom under Torts...and thats a bad thing.

So, at this point, I'd be inclined to keep the guy like Callahan who, at the very least, you can trust as a 3rd line/energy guy. But thats mostly because I have next to no faith in Tortorella at this point.

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12-14-2009, 08:48 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Normally, Id disagree, and heres why.

If not for the Zherdev power outage under Tortorella, I would think that Mueller would be the perfect type of player for Torts to mold. Heres a guy that possesses all sorts of talent, but needs more of a kick in the ass than anything else to get his game going. Ive been saying for months now that Tortorella is 8 parts motivator and 2 parts hockey mind.

Conversely, Callahan is the exact opposite of Mueller. Hes a guy that doesnt possess the inherant talent, but busts his ass each and every night. Seems to be theres not much more Torts can do with him than just say "Go out and play"

But the fact that Tortorella lost a guy like Zherdev at the end of last season and into the playoffs makes me balk at the previous philosophy I explained above. I dont know what to think anymore after the brutal hockey we've seen for about 25 games now. I dont know what kind of players will blossom under Torts...and thats a bad thing.

So, at this point, I'd be inclined to keep the guy like Callahan who, at the very least, you can trust as a 3rd line/energy guy. But thats mostly because I have next to no faith in Tortorella at this point.
I thought at the very least they would be playing an uptempo system
which after the loss to SJ they seemed to stop playing. I realize we sorely lack the top six talent to play that style effectively though.

What bothers me more about Tortorella is that I don't see him effecting any style whatsoever on this team. They're neither defensive nor offensive?

If they can't pull off a shake up move pretty quick this season might be over very soon. This current squad severely lacks talent and cohesion. If the writing on the wall is clear, that we're sellers i'll be happy to rid any of the big 3 contracts and take a shot at what available.

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Old
12-14-2009, 09:24 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
There are several assets we could sell. Higgins, Kotalik, Prospal at forward could all bring back at least a second rounder. Rosie should have some takers, though at a minimum return like a 5th rounder. Redden may have a taker, but maybe not.

Brashear will have a taker, maybe for a third or fourth round pick. Drury would have a taker if he waived his NMC.

I think reasonably speaking, we could get 3 second rounders, a third and a fifth, while clearing a lot of cap room for Higgins, Prospal, Kotalik, Brash and Rosie.

That's not bad return. We should be able to get one top-6 forward with those 5 picks. I would do it.

A fire sale would clear up a lot of cap space ($11.5 million), while getting us a few more decent prospects. It's worth doing in a season when we aren't going to do anything great anyway. A firesale in 2010 would significantly improve our odds of winning the Cup in 2012 (using the cap space) and 2015 (with the addition of another top-6 forward we would likely draft with one of the picks).


HUH????????????

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12-14-2009, 09:25 AM
  #79
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I'm so sick of everyone acting like Tortarella is a revolutionary when it comes to the offensive aspect of the game. "This guy would be great under Torts" "this guy would be perfect for Torts' system". Like there are only a handful of players out there that could play under him or fit in to his system or something, or we're the only team in the league trying to run a 2-1-2 and play in an aggressive system. To me, no, Mueller isn't the perfect player under Torts and its simple, he doesn't like underachievers.

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Old
12-14-2009, 09:33 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by goal1228 View Post
HUH????????????
That was pretty much my reaction to that post. Higgins and Prospal? Sure, we could probably sell them off at the deadline being theyre UFA after this season (Prospal MIGHT fetch a second rounder. Higgins? No way, not now anyway).

But to run with the illusion that we would somehow be able to sell off Roszival, Kotalik, and Brashear while all 3 are overpaid, underachieving, and on the books for at least next season and beyond? And then to just expect 2nd-5th round picks for these guys with no salary coming back the other way?

Thats just fantasy land.

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Old
12-14-2009, 09:42 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
He IS the only one, Staal is really meh when it comes to toughness.

And we need to ADD toughness not just replace what we already have.
Staal's pretty consistent with what he brings...he doesnt shy away from physical contact and he can throw some big hits around the blue line, but his body build doesnt allow him to really do much that's at least noticable around the dirty areas like the corner or in front of the net.

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Old
12-14-2009, 09:45 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Thomas J. View Post
Guys that have cannons like his & use it on a regular basis are hard to come by, if this team could get itself going Kotalik is a huge assest & his liablities can be over looked. I would hold on to him.
His cannon is useless when he hits the net about one in every six shots; the goals that his even strength play contribute to cancel out any good he does on the powerplay, and 25 PPG's is not worth $9 million to me if there's NO production elsewhere and his play and noticably lazy play are detrimental to the team

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Old
12-14-2009, 10:28 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
He IS the only one, Staal is really meh when it comes to toughness.

And we need to ADD toughness not just replace what we already have.
I really reallly wanna get that Valabik kid out of Atlanta.

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Old
12-14-2009, 02:35 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
His cannon is useless when he hits the net about one in every six shots; the goals that his even strength play contribute to cancel out any good he does on the powerplay, and 25 PPG's is not worth $9 million to me if there's NO production elsewhere and his play and noticably lazy play are detrimental to the team
Everyone goes though dry spells. He is usefull.

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Old
12-14-2009, 03:00 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
I really reallly wanna get that Valabik kid out of Atlanta.
He's pretty damn slow from what I've seen.

I think people will be pleasantly surprised with McDonagh's game. He's very capable on both sides of the puck and loves to hit people. Guys like Shane O'Brien cause more problems than they solve.

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Old
12-14-2009, 03:19 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
I really reallly wanna get that Valabik kid out of Atlanta.
Kid took his lumps against Rypien the other night.

Needs to add some speed,but I like him too. Just don't expect too much.

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Old
12-14-2009, 03:19 PM
  #87
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we should try and trade as many of our 3 big contract ****heads as possible then have 1 of the ones we couldnt get rid of and have him move to another country by faking his death and we agree to give him 2 times the amount of money that his contract is worth. And tell him to stay the hell away from the NHL and KHL or any other recognized leagues around the nation...

if only it were that easy...

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Old
12-14-2009, 03:21 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by lundqvistfan33 View Post
we should try and trade as many of our 3 big contract ****heads as possible then have 1 of the ones we couldnt get rid of and have him move to another country by faking his death and we agree to give him 2 times the amount of money that his contract is worth. And tell him to stay the hell away from the NHL and KHL or any other recognized leagues around the nation...

if only it were that easy...
One of them looks like he already is "faking his death" on the ice..

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Old
12-14-2009, 03:27 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lundqvistfan33 View Post
we should try and trade as many of our 3 big contract ****heads as possible then have 1 of the ones we couldnt get rid of and have him move to another country by faking his death and we agree to give him 2 times the amount of money that his contract is worth. And tell him to stay the hell away from the NHL and KHL or any other recognized leagues around the nation...

if only it were that easy...
No, if you want 'easy' you go back to Sather - Sather couldve said "Nope" to those deals, real easy.

You suffer from displaced anger like some other fans around here. Come on, who's the major ****head that not only has been below par in the last 9 years, but who's influence will be felt after Drury and Rosy are gone?

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Old
12-14-2009, 03:45 PM
  #90
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problem is, very few genuine superstars are going to be available, at least ones who could be long term solutions. Theres Kovalchuk, but I highly doubt hes going to be available, the rest of the youngish stars are all locked up to huge term, huge dollar deals.

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12-15-2009, 05:38 AM
  #91
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in regards to torts/his system/etc, he seems to only try and push this offense-go-go-go mentality then is dumbfounded when he barely gets results out of anyone not named gaborik (who is able to play an offense-first game effectively), game after game after game..but from all the interviews and whatnot, it looks like he has no other tactics aside from "just keep doing it, it has to pay off eventually..right?"


and am i just stupid or has drury really not played on the same line with prospal/gaby yet this season?

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Old
12-15-2009, 07:49 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by htk30 View Post
in regards to torts/his system/etc, he seems to only try and push this offense-go-go-go mentality then is dumbfounded when he barely gets results out of anyone not named gaborik (who is able to play an offense-first game effectively), game after game after game..but from all the interviews and whatnot, it looks like he has no other tactics aside from "just keep doing it, it has to pay off eventually..right?"


and am i just stupid or has drury really not played on the same line with prospal/gaby yet this season?
He hasn't.

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Old
12-15-2009, 08:49 AM
  #93
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I really don't care what we get back in trades if we sell.

What I care about most is that 1st round pick. The more guys we ship off, the more kids play. The more kids play, the more likely it is we'll drop in the standings, and we'll get a better 1st round pick.

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Old
12-15-2009, 08:52 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
There are several assets we could sell. Higgins, Kotalik, Prospal at forward could all bring back at least a second rounder. Rosie should have some takers, though at a minimum return like a 5th rounder. Redden may have a taker, but maybe not.

Brashear will have a taker, maybe for a third or fourth round pick. Drury would have a taker if he waived his NMC.

I think reasonably speaking, we could get 3 second rounders, a third and a fifth, while clearing a lot of cap room for Higgins, Prospal, Kotalik, Brash and Rosie.

That's not bad return. We should be able to get one top-6 forward with those 5 picks. I would do it.

A fire sale would clear up a lot of cap space ($11.5 million), while getting us a few more decent prospects. It's worth doing in a season when we aren't going to do anything great anyway. A firesale in 2010 would significantly improve our odds of winning the Cup in 2012 (using the cap space) and 2015 (with the addition of another top-6 forward we would likely draft with one of the picks).
Please name me that supposed taker for Drury, b/c I don't know who in their right mind would take that contract with 2 full years left after this one.

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Old
12-15-2009, 09:52 AM
  #95
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Huh?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
There are several assets we could sell. Higgins, Kotalik, Prospal at forward could all bring back at least a second rounder. Rosie should have some takers, though at a minimum return like a 5th rounder. Redden may have a taker, but maybe not.

Brashear will have a taker, maybe for a third or fourth round pick. Drury would have a taker if he waived his NMC.

I think reasonably speaking, we could get 3 second rounders, a third and a fifth, while clearing a lot of cap room for Higgins, Prospal, Kotalik, Brash and Rosie.

That's not bad return. We should be able to get one top-6 forward with those 5 picks. I would do it.

A fire sale would clear up a lot of cap space ($11.5 million), while getting us a few more decent prospects. It's worth doing in a season when we aren't going to do anything great anyway. A firesale in 2010 would significantly improve our odds of winning the Cup in 2012 (using the cap space) and 2015 (with the addition of another top-6 forward we would likely draft with one of the picks).
I'm sorry but I have been reading the posts in this forum for a long time now and actually had to register just to say HUH?! to this post.

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Old
12-15-2009, 10:27 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
I really don't care what we get back in trades if we sell.

What I care about most is that 1st round pick. The more guys we ship off, the more kids play. The more kids play, the more likely it is we'll drop in the standings, and we'll get a better 1st round pick.
great, rush all the kids up, be the New York Wolfpack and possibly ruin some of our youngsters in the process.

In addition, everybody seems to think this team is run as a public service to the fans. It's a business and with MSG possibly being spun off, they have to sell tickets. You'll see an empty garden pretty fast with a tanking team of AHL'ers. We're not the Penguins, time to get over that.

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