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Has Halak requested a trade?

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:14 PM
  #151
HotPie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Mind read? No. Logic and rationality, yes. Instead of trying to twist this up into something that it is not, stop avoiding the fact that your little theory of trying to up the ante on Halak is pathetic and wouldn't work. Stop avoiding the fact that you couldn't even understand the logic of any simple comparison, let alone trying to understand what a NHL Gm is trying to do.

And I don't need a job, but unlike you, I worked for mine, instead of having it spoonfed. I'm pretty sure I feel much more fufilled by my job than you'll ever do with yours. Thnkxbye
Man, you take the Habs way too seriously, you need to relax. You kind of come off as insecure.

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:17 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Pierre Jr View Post
That's exactly it. And if Philly, who has the worst goalie situation in the league as we speak, doesn't want to give up anything substantial, why would anybody else? There's three starting goaltenders i can think of that are worse than Halak: Brian Elliott, Jimmy Howard, and Vesa Toskala.
That's a really short-sighted analysis as you've only considered talent this year, while completely disregarding the future and salary cap, and UFA issues. Halak won't be UFA for a few years, so he'll either be cheap for someone during that time, or they will receive compensation picks if someone gets him with an offer sheet. You should have included teams with aging goaltenders (Dallas) likely to decline in the near future; those near the cap max; those with two fairly expensive goalies; impending UFAs, especially those expected to get raises on teams with little cap space; goalies that are under-performing; and those with any combination of the above, especially those with no prospect near ready to come up through the system.

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:18 PM
  #153
Myron Gaines*
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Let's listen to what Jason Spezza has to say about trade requests:


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Old
12-15-2009, 03:19 PM
  #154
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Haha, I never suggested Carter.

Philly has issues too though, a) No cap room, b) Needs consistent goaltending (which Emery is NOT), c) They need to salvage this season any way they can.

My proposed trade was just to get some skill into our team, not even work ethic or overall ability, just raw talent. A wicked, accurate shot or a monstrous slapshot. A player like Pouliot for instance (but in this case, a better return). I trust JM to be able to convert SOME of that skill into effective ability, as he did with AKost, Plekanec and hopefully SKost and Pouliot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Why would a team do this? People do not trade for scraps.

The only plausible trade is Mara and Halak for Coburn because a. the Flyers are weak in nets and b. Coburn has a difficulty this year.

But this trade won't happen because a. Coburn isn't what we really need right now though he could be useful and b. Flyers just need to compensate for 4 weeks until emery returns and seeing how they signed graham and picked leighton off waivers it looks like that's what they intend to do.

Goalies by themselves have no value. Struggling one-dimensional prospects have even less. Add to that an injured #5 d-man whos a ufa at the end of the year, the value is even less.

People will not accept crap so we can fill a need, they will not accept a pile of crap to fill our need.

It's either you give up something good for something good or you give up struggles for struggles.

Example: Cheechoo, Michalek for Heatley. A former 56 goal scorer and a 1st line complimentary player.

Example 2: Latendresse for Pouliot. Struggle for struggle.

D'agostini, Mara and Halak for Carter? Why would the Flyers do this, they fill one hole and create another.

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:20 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated R Superstar View Post
Let's listen to what Jason Spezza has to say about trade requests:

I remember when I saw this. Laughed so hard. Huge dork.

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:29 PM
  #156
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If you compare what Dallas gave for Brad Richards

Dallas used smith as the center piece (a young backup goalie) along with an experienced vet in halpern and jokinen and a 4th for Brad Richards and holmqvist

now if the rumours are true that carter is available ( I doubt it but lets hope), than a comparable trade can be centered around halak, metropolit, d`agostini another depth player and a pick for jeff carter.

Carter has proven less than Richards. I know Tampa was trying to get rid of Richards but that seems like a fair deal if you use it as a precedent. It prolly won`t happen due to the cap but I guess we can make space if we get someone of carter`s calibre (i.e. Waive laraque or something

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:35 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidema View Post
If you compare what Dallas gave for Brad Richards

Dallas used smith as the center piece (a young backup goalie) along with an experienced vet in halpern and jokinen and a 4th for Brad Richards and holmqvist

now if the rumours are true that carter is available ( I doubt it but lets hope), than a comparable trade can be centered around halak, metropolit, d`agostini another depth player and a pick for jeff carter.

Carter has proven less than Richards. I know Tampa was trying to get rid of Richards but that seems like a fair deal if you use it as a precedent. It prolly won`t happen due to the cap but I guess we can make space if we get someone of carter`s calibre (i.e. Waive laraque or something
Richards had an NTC

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:37 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by couris View Post
Richards had an NTC
So? He did get moved, like the guy explained, didn't he?

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:39 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
So? He did get moved, like the guy explained, didn't he?
Yup, but Tampa probably had to take the best offer available because Richards only selected 3 teams to be traded to at the time.

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:40 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidema View Post
If you compare what Dallas gave for Brad Richards

Dallas used smith as the center piece (a young backup goalie) along with an experienced vet in halpern and jokinen and a 4th for Brad Richards and holmqvist

now if the rumours are true that carter is available ( I doubt it but lets hope), than a comparable trade can be centered around halak, metropolit, d`agostini another depth player and a pick for jeff carter.

Carter has proven less than Richards. I know Tampa was trying to get rid of Richards but that seems like a fair deal if you use it as a precedent. It prolly won`t happen due to the cap but I guess we can make space if we get someone of carter`s calibre (i.e. Waive laraque or something
Richards had a huge contract, about 2 mil more of a cap hit than Carter, that lessened his value.

I'd love to get Carter, he gets a bit overrated due to the 46 goal season and being 6'3" but I'd take him in a heartbeat if we can get him without losing core players(Pleks Cammy Price Markov Subban).

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:40 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
That's a really short-sighted analysis as you've only considered talent this year, while completely disregarding the future and salary cap, and UFA issues. Halak won't be UFA for a few years, so he'll either be cheap for someone during that time, or they will receive compensation picks if someone gets him with an offer sheet. You should have included teams with aging goaltenders (Dallas) likely to decline in the near future; those near the cap max; those with two fairly expensive goalies; impending UFAs, especially those expected to get raises on teams with little cap space; goalies that are under-performing; and those with any combination of the above, especially those with no prospect near ready to come up through the system.
Yes that is all true (and thats also a lot of work). So you're saying that from now till March 3rd we're going to trade Halak to a team that maybe will make him their starter in the next couple of years? We'll end up getting even less in this scenario. Trading for a goalie is not the same as trading for a skater--there's a lot more risk involved. Teams don't want to give up very much for a "potentially" very good NHL starter. You have the Mike Smith trade as the only benchmark in the last few years. Bottom line is that it happens pretty rarely that backup or "1b" goalies get moved in big deals. Sure i could go through every team, and find players that need to be moved (like Brad Richards in that trade) or goalies that are under-performing, but it seems like a giant waste of time. For a Halak trade to happen, the stars will have to be perfectly aligned. That, or Gainey will panic and trade him for less than he's worth. I have a little more faith in him that though.

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:41 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by couris View Post
Richards had an NTC
Well if your point is that he got less value because of his NTC, than I would agree. The question is, how much did it reduce his value by?

To that point, it`s also why I said add another depth roster player. That could be alot of things. Like I said, its just a blue print and I`m not sure Philly wants to trade Carter either.

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:43 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Richards had a huge contract, about 2 mil more of a cap hit than Carter, that lessened his value.

I'd love to get Carter, he gets a bit overrated due to the 46 goal season and being 6'3" but I'd take him in a heartbeat if we can get him without losing core players(Pleks Cammy Price Markov Subban).
Right, but like I said, Richards was a lot more proven than Carter. With a Conn Smythe to his name, I don`t think teams seriously gunning for the cup would be too worried about it as long as they can fit it under the cap.

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:44 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Jr View Post
Yes that is all true (and thats also a lot of work). So you're saying that from now till March 3rd we're going to trade Halak to a team that maybe will make him their starter in the next couple of years?
Halak would prefer "probably" instead of "maybe", but as opposed to never (i.e. Montreal)? Yes.

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:45 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidema View Post
If you compare what Dallas gave for Brad Richards

Dallas used smith as the center piece (a young backup goalie) along with an experienced vet in halpern and jokinen and a 4th for Brad Richards and holmqvist

now if the rumours are true that carter is available ( I doubt it but lets hope), than a comparable trade can be centered around halak, metropolit, d`agostini another depth player and a pick for jeff carter.

Carter has proven less than Richards. I know Tampa was trying to get rid of Richards but that seems like a fair deal if you use it as a precedent. It prolly won`t happen due to the cap but I guess we can make space if we get someone of carter`s calibre (i.e. Waive laraque or something
You also have to take into account that a) Philly is much better organization than T.B., a team that bleeds money b) has never given up a lot for a goaltender, nevermind a guy who just scored 45 goals last year c) has a way better GM than T.B.

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:46 PM
  #166
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Geez even the smallest of trades tears this place apart.

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:47 PM
  #167
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidema View Post
Well if your point is that he got less value because of his NTC, than I would agree. The question is, how much did it reduce his value by?

To that point, it`s also why I said add another depth roster player. That could be alot of things. Like I said, its just a blue print and I`m not sure Philly wants to trade Carter either.
I didn't think it was that hard to understand. I think language issues around here cause people to interpret things too literally and narrowly sometimes. Which is surprising, because to my knowledge, for example and par exemple carry the same connotation whether spoken or not...

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:48 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Halak would prefer "probably" instead of "maybe", but as opposed to never (i.e. Montreal)? Yes.
All right. So basically you're alluding to Turco and maybe Smith in Tampa. No other situations are really jumping out at me besides Detroit.

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12-15-2009, 03:48 PM
  #169
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As much as I like Halak and that I think he has potential, I really don't see why he asked a trade and most of all, at this time of the year.

He is on pace to play 29 games. That's pretty much what a good back-up gets in the league (most of number one goalies get between high fifty's to seventy games so that give about 20 games to their back-up).

There are not many teams in the league where he would come in as a clear number 1, and from those teams, in most cases he would be a number 1 because of an injury to that team's number 1, so for only a short period of time.

There are maybe a couple of teams where he could see around 35 games as a back-up.

So for himself, the trade doesn't make that much sense in the way that the chances that he would improve his situation for this year are quite slim. Even if it's clear that the habs are Price's team, he still has more chances to play behind a young goalie that might be inconsistent than playing behind an established number 1 goalie, so I don't see why playing for the habs this year is bad for him.

On the long term then it's an other thing, but that's the kind of trade that you make in the summer or at the draft, not during the season.

On the habs side, I think that Gainey is playing it right. He's shopping Halak but he's asking something that he needs in return, or he won't trade him (that's how I took what Gainey said "Don't think that I'm not trading Halak because I want Carter instead of Giroux, I'm not trading Halak because he's not worth much more than what Huet or Biron fetched and that doesn't help us now"). I frankly don't see him getting what he wants because Halak is good but he's not that much of an improvement on many goalie right now (not like he had a ,930 save % and 5 SO in 12 games) , and as much as he has potential, not many team are ready to take a gamble on goalie's potential and I don't think you can put Halak in the same group as Price in term of potential and reputation in the hockey world (aka outside of habs land)

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:52 PM
  #170
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im suprised Halak has been this patient.


he made it clear he wants to be a number 1.

HABS make it clear Price is the man .


so Halak wants a chance to max out his potential earnings and that doesnt happen as a number 2.

the guy will be a number 1 and another guy we have to watch "do it" in another city.

valuewise?


Huet got a us a second round pick...ask youself is Halak on par with Huet at this stage of his career?


Halak alone doesnt get us what were loooking(or many here are expecting) for IMHO .....

packaged up maybe so ....

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:55 PM
  #171
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Gainey even said it himself: Halak does not have much value, because goaltenders do not have much value. As soon as a goaltender "has" to be traded, like Huet and Biron. They're value is much lower. But Halak is still a RFA after this season, which does increase his value.

Potential suitors:

Wings (id day about 30% chance)
Philly (75% chance)
Dallas (15% chance)
Blues (30% chance)

so really, the only team would be Philly.

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:59 PM
  #172
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I will be happy with a underachive 2nd liner in his last year contract or a prospect for Halak.

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Old
12-15-2009, 04:00 PM
  #173
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How about the oilers any one think they need a goalie and if so what can we get from them?
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Old
12-15-2009, 04:00 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Montréal Russians View Post
Gainey even said it himself: Halak does not have much value, because goaltenders do not have much value. As soon as a goaltender "has" to be traded, like Huet and Biron. They're value is much lower. But Halak is still a RFA after this season, which does increase his value.

Potential suitors:

Wings (id day about 30% chance)
Philly (75% chance)
Dallas (15% chance)
Blues (30% chance)

so really, the only team would be Philly.
i say we trade him to Panthers ask for this guy in return

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/4755

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Old
12-15-2009, 04:02 PM
  #175
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Halak was drafted in the 9th round (the last round.. where most never make the NHL)... you'll get a 2nd round pick for him. His value has increased since he was drafted, I don't see how this is a bad thing? You completly lucked out drafting him.. The habs win with a 2nd rounder you guys should be smiling all the way to the bank.. sheesh.

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