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Old
12-15-2009, 12:51 PM
  #26
hototogisu
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Like it. D'Agostini needs to be on a scoring line to be even remotely effective and Lapierre wasn't stepping up.

Also like Metropolit on the 4th. Relax fanboys, we didn't take him out back and cut his throat. But he should absolutely be punished for 2 terrible, costly penalties with a temporary demotion.

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Old
12-15-2009, 12:52 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by eliash View Post
I don't know.. I mean.. we are one of the most penalized team in the league, but our PK saves us a lot of the times, but it's the first time this year that a player gets demoted because he was taking penalties.. I find it a little bit weird.. When a player takes a bad penalty in the 1st period and the other team scores, isn't that considered a bad penalty that could also cost us 2 points?
i see what you mean. one game it happens to everyone, 2 games in a row? then you start playing the safe card so that pattern doesnt continue u know what i mean? thats how i see it. This move is for sure a short term one, i think both metro and martin know that.

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12-15-2009, 12:54 PM
  #28
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Huge oppurtunity for Dagger, guy is on the bubble with Pouliot coming in soon to audition for a spot on Gomez' wing, and then Gionta taking back his spot that's currently open. I like Dagger's game, speed, shot, drives hard & drives the net, but bills gotta be paid by skills, if he's not scoring at a 20-30 goal pace he doesn't have much use out there.

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12-15-2009, 12:55 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by saints96 View Post
i see what you mean. one game it happens to everyone, 2 games in a row? then you start playing the safe card so that pattern doesnt continue u know what i mean? thats how i see it. This move is for sure a short term one, i think both metro and martin know that.
Yeah it's probably going to be for a game. I guess we'll see what happens, which for sure will be Metro not taking any penalties and all of you's being right

But I still believe he would have stopped on his own even if he stayed on the 3rd line

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Old
12-15-2009, 02:55 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Quarantesix View Post
You missed the end of the last two games or what.
I actually did miss yesterday's game -- but did you miss the 30-something games before that? If he gets 4th line minutes for more than a game, it's not a message, it's stupidity

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:02 PM
  #31
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I like that D'Agostini is on the 2nd line, that means that when Gionta is back he'll simply take his spot

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:03 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
The coach not knowing how to use a player?



Problem with this theory is, AK wasn't lacking for shooting back then, and is not really shooting more now. The puck going in is the big difference. He was shooting for 3% back when he was demoted. He's up to a more typical 12%, which tells you how hot his shooting has been over the last few games.

AK was going to start scoring the way he was playing, demoted to the 4th or not. Arguably, demoting him slowed down his recovery.

(Of course, to be fair to Martin, maybe he was demoted for things that didn't have to do with dearth of scoring, but judging from the coach's comments, that doesn't seem likely. Small wonder Andrei sarcastically suggested shooting from the red line.)
lol I knew you would bring that up...you're right, he's not shooting more...but the quality of his shots has increased (you'll just have to trust me on that one, I got no stats that can show that) also, his work rate on the ice has improved much more.

Sometimes, the player needs to take his career in his own hands and be accountable for his actions. You can't tell me there's not a difference in the way AK46 is playing now, compared to how he was playing the first 20 games. It's not just that his shots are now "going in" as opposed to earlier in the year. He's working harder away from the puck in order to be able to get into good scoring areas...truthfully, I was never really concerned with him though, he's like a bear who hibernates all winter, but once he's up, he's up!

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12-15-2009, 03:09 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
lol I knew you would bring that up...you're right, he's not shooting more...but the quality of his shots has increased (you'll just have to trust me on that one, I got no stats that can show that) also, his work rate on the ice has improved much more.
Probably true to an extent, but as long as we're going by unquantifiables, having more confidence probably helps -- and having more confidence comes from scoing and playing more.

But him using his shot has never been a problem. He's using it more judiciously, maybe. It helps to have Cammy on his wing, too. He's going to draw a lot more attention than, say, Ryan White.

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:15 PM
  #34
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I don't see why he would take less penalties on the 4th line..
Quite simple actually. LESS ICE TIME !

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:22 PM
  #35
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Been saying that D'ago had to be with Gomez and SK for the past 3 games.

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:24 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Probably true to an extent, but as long as we're going by unquantifiables, having more confidence probably helps -- and having more confidence comes from scoing and playing more.

But him using his shot has never been a problem. He's using it more judiciously, maybe. It helps to have Cammy on his wing, too. He's going to draw a lot more attention than, say, Ryan White.
unquantifiables to us fans, yes...to the coaching staff, not so much. But you're right, confidence, especially in kostitsyn's case it seems, is key. But it's a give and take relationship...he's got to hold up his end of the bargain for the coaching staff to give him more playing time.

For example...Kostitsyn recently has been on the ice for some goals against where he and Cammalleri totally blew their defensive assignments, but JM hasn't reduced his playing time because Kostitsyn is producing AND showing a good work ethic. Goes both ways.

Now back to D'Agostini...he's looked absolutely lost all year...hes going to have an opportunity now. I'm not as interested to see if he's going to score, but more whether he's going to show the work ethic and effort required for him to eventually score when he finds his confidence again.

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:28 PM
  #37
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Moving Metropolit on the 4th line while he's a good 3rd line center and point scorer is simply a standard disciplinary move. Nothing personal - you have to pay for your mistakes. I really expect him to be promoted back to center Patch and Moen in the second period tops (provided he does not take more stupid penalties ) And probably get some PP time too.

It's not hate or anger - it's the rules. Do your time - this does not make you a less valuable player.

Like saying to a child : "You made a mistake and you will be punished for it - grounded for a week. That being said I still love you and care for you but that's the way it is."

I remember an anecdote about Jacques Marting having an intense disciplinary training on a Sunday yet giving his players the day off on Monday. A reporter asked him about the apparent lack of consistency .... he answered "Well, I still need them to be able to play the next game, you know".

Punishments must come from (and target) the brain - not the emotions.

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:29 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by PunkinDrublic View Post
Quite simple actually. LESS ICE TIME !
Then maybe we should send him to Hamilton - He'll definetely get no stupid penalty for the Habs again.

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Old
12-15-2009, 03:34 PM
  #39
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I'd like to switch metropolit with lapierre but otherwise, I like the lines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Probably true to an extent, but as long as we're going by unquantifiables, having more confidence probably helps -- and having more confidence comes from scoing and playing more.

But him using his shot has never been a problem. He's using it more judiciously, maybe. It helps to have Cammy on his wing, too. He's going to draw a lot more attention than, say, Ryan White.
The other thing I would like to note about akost: Does anybody remember him putting such an effort into defense as he is doing in the last month or so?

He still has room for improvement in the defensove zone obviously, but I find it encouraging that he uses his body to knock people off the puck and that he busts his ass to nullify opposing 2 on 1s. These are traits that I've never seen from him before.

I'm a big believer that its easier to gain confidence if you show a strong work ethic. At least this way, the coach wont take away your ice time, and you can keep working away at it. This is the difference from current andrei to the andrei that started the season. I'm not saying that work ethic, and compete level will solve all confidence issues, but I also don't think its a mere coincidence that his confidence also appears to be at a high at the moment.


Last edited by Hackett: 12-15-2009 at 03:50 PM.
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Old
12-15-2009, 03:50 PM
  #40
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Metropolit 4th line awesome move? He's 4th for goals and points on the team..
That won't last long. between he and Lapierre they will flip flop during the game depending on how it's going.

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Old
12-15-2009, 05:04 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Joey View Post
... If he gets 4th line minutes for more than a game, it's not a message, it's stupidity
It wont last more than a period. JM is sending a message but he knows that Metropolit and Moen are the second best duo. Metropolit is effective playing a limited number of minutes, you can't expect him to keep that level playing more than his usual share.

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Old
12-15-2009, 05:08 PM
  #42
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Been saying that D'ago had to be with Gomez and SK for the past 3 games.
Took Martin a couple of days to find our posts on HFboards about it though.

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Old
12-15-2009, 05:08 PM
  #43
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Punishment for Metropolit.

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Old
12-15-2009, 10:00 PM
  #44
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Blue collar guy, waiver pick up, among point leaders on the team... Sure Metro is taking this all in stride knowing he has to reel it back in.

Be nice if Dags can find that touch again, CPK need a little frickin' backup here.

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Old
12-15-2009, 10:05 PM
  #45
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Huge opportunity for Dags but the success of the line will ultimately be determined by Gomez. Scotty is the one who needs to start making those around him better. That is his job especially now that he isn't being lined up against other top defense pairings.

As is though, its likely a temporary fix until Gionta returns. Long term i don't see a future for D'Agostini in Montreal. Possibly a good time for show casing if he succeeds.

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Old
12-15-2009, 10:46 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by eliash View Post
No.. he took 2 in the whole season people need to calm down. If we knew how to score we shouldn't worry about losing games by one goal always, or winning them by that margin too.. Some great players take bad penalties, I don,t see them getting demoted, especially if it's only for TWO of them.
Whats the big deal, a 3rd liner was demoted to the 4th line. He made too two stupid penalties that possibly cost us some important point. He will probably play 2-3 less minutes. Whats the whining for? Having a player with 7 goals on the 4th is a luxury.

And its better for Lapierre to go back in center, he is not 2nd line material.

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Old
12-15-2009, 10:50 PM
  #47
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Contrary to what people think, I honestly believe Lapierre has serious offensive potential. I mean, check his shootout goals, his pass to Cammy in that game... but being a winger isn't his game. Dare I suggest trying him at second line center? Even in practice just to see what he's capable of?

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Old
12-15-2009, 10:54 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by StephenYoung View Post
Contrary to what people think, I honestly believe Lapierre has serious offensive potential. I mean, check his shootout goals, his pass to Cammy in that game... but being a winger isn't his game. Dare I suggest trying him at second line center? Even in practice just to see what he's capable of?
No no no nonononono... Dont get fooled by his shootout goals. Shootout is you and the goalie, it has nothing to do with being a good center or not. Lapierre has 0 creativity and vision.

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Old
12-15-2009, 10:58 PM
  #49
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Metropolit 4th line awesome move? He's 4th for goals and points on the team..
He's 4th for goals and points... ok, but where do you want to see him play then? On the 1st or 2nd line? 2nd wave PP, not enough, might as well put him on the 1st PP?

Metropolit is not out of place on the 4th line, that's the line he played on during most of his NHL career. How is that a dumb move? He is a good role player and has been awesome at the beginning of the season, providing some secondary scoring when the team had many injured players. He's been one of my favorites, however, now that those injured players are starting to come back, I could care less if he plays on the 3rd or 4th line and see no PP time, because we are just getting back to the norm.

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Old
12-15-2009, 11:24 PM
  #50
Kirk Muller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenYoung View Post
Contrary to what people think, I honestly believe Lapierre has serious offensive potential. I mean, check his shootout goals, his pass to Cammy in that game... but being a winger isn't his game. Dare I suggest trying him at second line center? Even in practice just to see what he's capable of?
flashbacks to off season.

If anything, this season has dispelled any notion that people have of him being a second line player. The offensive skills are just not there nor are the offensive instincts.

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