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Old
12-15-2009, 09:53 PM
  #326
turcotte8
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Originally Posted by bleedblue94 View Post
I NEVER buy into players having career years during a contract year... NEVER. It's a recipe for disaster and something I have always been firmly against
He had a really good year last year too, he scored over 30 goals in 3 of the last 4 years and looks like he'll do it again this year.

Of course if he came here he wouldn't be on a line with Thornton and he would drop to like 15 goals a year.

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12-15-2009, 09:58 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by bleedblue94 View Post
I NEVER buy into players having career years during a contract year... NEVER. It's a recipe for disaster and something I have always been firmly against
Marleau has been pretty consistent and he is a pretty good player. Not quite elite but he will most likely be on team Canada, not the easiest thing to do. Just seems like a Sather type of move.

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12-15-2009, 10:05 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
He had a really good year last year too, he scored over 30 goals in 3 of the last 4 years and looks like he'll do it again this year.

Of course if he came here he wouldn't be on a line with Thornton and he would drop to like 15 goals a year.
often times i think you need to look at something just like that. the issue with a signing like drury was looking at hisstats and intangibles, but ignoring that he needed creative playmakers to create FOR him. this point has been beaten to death, but the issue those are the players you build around. the ones that can generate, not the ones that rely. there is NO proof that had heatley come here he would be doing anything like he has in SJ or OTT for that matter bc while he is a terrific finisher, ive never viewed heatley as someone who can GENERALLY create for himself... he is just a fantastic finisher and has play with two premier play makers... something we simply would not have to supply.

marleau's career was allot of question marks till thornton arrived, and then marleau began to slowly become the player people hoped he would be when he was drafted #2 overall. he has great skill to capitalize, but when you watch there is still way to often he goes into lulls when thornton or even pavelski isnt helping create the opportunities for him to use his skills. like i said he has great skills to capitalize in the right situation as well, but he is not a guy like gaborik that can just make it happen on his own, and because of that i dont think he is worth what he will no doubt get on the market this year

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12-15-2009, 10:06 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
Marleau has been pretty consistent and he is a pretty good player. Not quite elite but he will most likely be on team Canada, not the easiest thing to do. Just seems like a Sather type of move.
sather's type of move to what? trade for or sign him?

either way i would expect marleau to crumble under the NY pressure, or canada for that matter. i was praying for his sake he did not get traded to OTT or MON... he has never really been someone who produces under intense pressure... just look at his playoff record for the most part

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12-15-2009, 10:07 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by bleedblue94 View Post
sather's type of move to what? trade for or sign him?
sign i think he was talking about

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12-15-2009, 10:15 PM
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
If Adam's career was time-warped to today, people here would have probably assumed he'd never develop into a goal-scoring powerforward. They would have given up on him after a couple of season's.

The main argument that I'm making, and have been making, is the Callahan's and the Dubinsky's we're watching today, could develop into very complete players later in their careers.
Absolutely not. Graves showed far, far more in juniors than Callahan ever did. Callahan barely passed the PPG mark as an overager. No one thought that would mean big numbers for him in the NHL.

On the other hand, Graves did far better in juniors and so there was reason to be optimistic about his ability to score more in the future.

You can't just pick a random 23-year-old out of a hat and hope he develops some offense. There has to be something there to build on, and those that have it usually show the signs that they have it when they play in lower levels.

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12-15-2009, 10:15 PM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue94 View Post
sather's type of move to what? trade for or sign him?

either way i would expect marleau to crumble under the NY pressure, or canada for that matter. i was praying for his sake he did not get traded to OTT or MON... he has never really been someone who produces under intense pressure... just look at his playoff record for the most part
I meant sign him, he wont be traded.

Also, Marleau actually has been one of the bright spots in the horrible playoff runs.

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12-15-2009, 10:21 PM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue94 View Post
either way i would expect marleau to crumble under the NY pressure, or canada for that matter. i was praying for his sake he did not get traded to OTT or MON... he has never really been someone who produces under intense pressure... just look at his playoff record for the most part
I doubt Marleau crumbles under the pressure of NY, but he also isn't a great puck distributor. He is more of a scorer, which is why he is having such great success this year. San Jose was always trying to fit him in the wrong spot, to stick his square peg (speedy scoring winger) into a round hole (first-line, playmaking center).

Joe Thornton and Joe Pavelski have changed that, and allowed Marleau to flourish in the role he is best suited for.

He is not the answer in New York. The Rangers don't have the sort of playmaker Marleau needs. Basically, he would be feeding off of Gaborik, not the other way around.

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Old
12-15-2009, 10:23 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
I meant sign him, he wont be traded.

Also, Marleau actually has been one of the bright spots in the horrible playoff runs.
stat wise i agree... but for many years SJ was my second favorite team and i would watch their playoff games regularly and it seemed marleau would collect a boatload of points one game in a mini blowout or in early rounds against mediocre opponents, but once the tougher series started or in super tight games he would dissappear much like thornton, but NOT as badly as big joe. that being said he has improved in that aspect in recent years, but still not enough that i would inverst or believe in him to be one of the 3 or 4 KEY guys id invest in on this team...

just bc a guy is one of the better players in his ufa season does not mean he is the right guy for a team, nor does it mean he deserves the same contract as the "right" player would deserve

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12-15-2009, 10:26 PM
  #335
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Marleau would be another Drury-type signing. Like Drury, Marleau averages 58 points per season and had a career year for goals scored on a team that won the President's Trophy. He's played on some stacked teams with a great supporting cast (though inexplicably did awful in 2007-08).

Marleau's leadership was questioned and the captaincy was taken away from him. The fans would probably eat him alive here. If Sather offers Marleau some ridiculous contract, this would only prove that he didn't learn his lesson from the Drury signing.

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Old
12-15-2009, 10:28 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by bleedblue94 View Post
stat wise i agree... but for many years SJ was my second favorite team and i would watch their playoff games regularly and it seemed marleau would collect a boatload of points one game in a mini blowout or in early rounds against mediocre opponents, but once the tougher series started or in super tight games he would dissappear much like thornton, but NOT as badly as big joe. that being said he has improved in that aspect in recent years, but still not enough that i would inverst or believe in him to be one of the 3 or 4 KEY guys id invest in on this team...

just bc a guy is one of the better players in his ufa season does not mean he is the right guy for a team, nor does it mean he deserves the same contract as the "right" player would deserve
I follow San Jose pretty closely and on a couple of occassions Marleau played through the playoffs badly hurt. One year, when the Sharks lost to Nashville, he played the entire series with a seperated shoulder. I've always though he was prtetty gritty in the playoffs unlike Regular (Season) Joe.

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12-15-2009, 10:32 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
I follow San Jose pretty closely and on a couple of occassions Marleau played through the playoffs badly hurt. One year, when the Sharks lost to Nashville, he played the entire series with a seperated shoulder. I've always though he was prtetty gritty in the playoffs unlike Regular (Season) Joe.
thornton is one of the worst cases ive ever seen... for such a big man he plays such a perimeter cutesy game its embarressing, and the problem is he is so skilled and blessed with such vision that he excels during the season, but once the dirty time starts in the post season his game becomes a joke...

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12-15-2009, 10:42 PM
  #338
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I think people may be taking what I said incorrectly. I think Sather will try to sign Marleau. I did not say I want him for the price he will command.

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12-15-2009, 11:03 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
I think people may be taking what I said incorrectly. I think Sather will try to sign Marleau. I did not say I want him for the price he will command.
im not jumping, just commenting on the general nature of ufa anymore and teams IDing what they need, who fills the need, and how to get the right guy

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12-15-2009, 11:05 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by bleedblue94 View Post
im not jumping, just commenting on the general nature of ufa anymore and teams IDing what they need, who fills the need, and how to get the right guy
I agree, just saying, I re-read my post and it seemed like I was stating I wanted him to get Marleau which is not the case.

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12-15-2009, 11:30 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
I agree, just saying, I re-read my post and it seemed like I was stating I wanted him to get Marleau which is not the case.

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12-16-2009, 05:22 AM
  #342
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The Rangers are going to need either creative accounting or need to move/demote one of their big contracts. Don't ever want to hear about the Rangers shouldn't demote a high priced vet to the AHL for fear of repercussions by the other players. The Caps banished Michael Nylander and pretty much forced him into accepting the AHL demotion to Grand Rapids. He has $8.5 million on the last 2 years of his contract. Ted Leonsis is eating that money.

If it's Rozsival and they can't trade him,assigning him to Hartford is the easiest way to create cap room. The Rangers are going to need to replace his 20 plus minutes but they need his $5 million cap hit.

That's a summer/October 2010 move.

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12-16-2009, 05:23 AM
  #343
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A league executive said making a deal for a centre would be difficult for the Senators, who only have about $1.5 million in cap space left. The Minnesota Wild, Chicago Blackhawks and New York Rangers have been looking for help down the middle all season.

“There aren’t many centres around,” said the executive.
http://www.ottawasun.com/sports/hock.../12162956.html

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12-16-2009, 05:24 AM
  #344
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Marleau has bust written all over him. He has played and lived on the west coast/western Canada for all of his career.

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12-16-2009, 06:45 AM
  #345
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Move Kotalik for Demitra.

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Old
12-16-2009, 06:57 AM
  #346
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Marleau would be another Drury-type signing. Like Drury, Marleau averages 58 points per season and had a career year for goals scored on a team that won the President's Trophy. He's played on some stacked teams with a great supporting cast (though inexplicably did awful in 2007-08).

Marleau's leadership was questioned and the captaincy was taken away from him. The fans would probably eat him alive here. If Sather offers Marleau some ridiculous contract, this would only prove that he didn't learn his lesson from the Drury signing.
Bingo. We'll see if Sather really did learn his lesson. Just the thought of this happening makes me

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Old
12-16-2009, 08:40 AM
  #347
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Marleau has bust written all over him. He has played and lived on the west coast/western Canada for all of his career.
lol.... that makes him a bust? Aside from his ****** year in 08 he's a great player. He's been at or close to ppg play since the lockout, except for 08. And he normally is not playing on Jumbos line. This year he has, but in the past they have split those two up much of the time.

Will he be overpaid? Yea now that Savard wont be hitting the market he will likely get overpaid by someone. But thats what happens on July 1st for the better players. Remember Marleau made the NHL as an 18 year old. This is a guy who knows how to play hockey. Look at his play post lockout to see him maturing into a very solid player.

Not sure he'd be right for NYR.... but a bust?

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12-16-2009, 09:11 AM
  #348
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eh, I don't think I'd overpay for Marleau. He's a good player but stacking on another big money, long term contract for a guy who isn't a legit star is a bad move for the Rangers at this point.

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12-16-2009, 09:19 AM
  #349
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eh, I don't think I'd overpay for Marleau. He's a good player but stacking on another big money, long term contract for a guy who isn't a legit star is a bad move for the Rangers at this point.
right there with ya

this whole rozy/drury thing has convinced me that once the ink on the contract dries, these vets stop playing useful hockey and begin their working retirements.

no more free agents.

i say draft well. develop the kids. let them play and then decide to keep them long term or move them in deals to get an asset we really want that can be signed long term.

the quick fix to me will always have drurys face attached to it.

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Old
12-16-2009, 09:21 AM
  #350
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right there with ya

this whole rozy/drury thing has convinced me that once the ink on the contract dries, these vets stop playing useful hockey and begin their working retirements.

no more free agents.

i say draft well. develop the kids. let them play and then decide to keep them long term or move them in deals to get an asset we really want that can be signed long term.

the quick fix to me will always have drurys face attached to it.
You mustve missed alot of Rangers hockey from 99-05 if you think Drury is the face of 'quick fix'.

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