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Do you think Briere is worth his cap hit?

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Old
12-16-2009, 06:42 AM
  #101
Larry44
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Originally Posted by knivez View Post
The main question is...

If Briere had been willing to waive his NTC, and Gainey offered the Gomez package (Higgins+McDonagh) to Philly for Briere instead of...well, Gomez.

Would you take it?
Rhetorical question?

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12-16-2009, 10:01 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Mgkibbles View Post
No he isn't worth his cap hit because even though hes a point per game type player his defense is extremely poor and he takes a lot of lazy penalties, but at the time the Flyers needed offense and they overpayed, can't say I blame management for his contract.
Why can't you blame management for his contract? You act as if they had no other choice. They had options. The best option was to sign a stop gap until Carter and Richards developed instead of investing $52M in a #1 center when you had two players that could have been that guy if they were just patient enough to let them develop.

If you look at the great organizations in the NHL today like Detroit and New Jersey they rarely overpay for free agents. Meanwhile teams like the Flyers, Rangers, and Leafs try to rely on free agency to bypass the rebuilding phase and constantly fall short every year. Overpaying for free agents is not a recipe for success. It's even more absurd to do so in the cap world.

Personally I feel like our window is much smaller than it could have been due to overpaying for players like Briere. Can't blame management? Get out of here with that crazy talk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by knivez View Post
The main question is...

If Briere had been willing to waive his NTC, and Gainey offered the Gomez package (Higgins+McDonagh) to Philly for Briere instead of...well, Gomez.

Would you take it?
Yes I would have.

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12-16-2009, 01:24 PM
  #103
mikedifr
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
I don't really know what I'm arguing here. I know he's a good player, you don't need to convince me of that. I know he can be a PPG player. But I'm confident we could do better with that cap money in terms of a scoring winger and depth elsewhere on the roster. That winger probably wouldn't be a PPG player, but if we can bolster the defense or spend on goaltending then it's worth it.

Like I said - the question the thread is posing is "do you think Briere is worth his cap hit" and you say no. Case closed.
Come on Storm, you know the case is never closed with me

I dont care that we disagree, I know you and I can disagree without it becoming personal....Just want to make you understand my point about the cap hit

I do think he is worth the cap hit with one caveat "WHEN THIS TEAM IS PLAYING THE WAY WE ALL BELIEVE IT SHOULD" His first year here I didnt give a crap about his cap hit cause he gave us almost a PPG and showed what he brought to this team as far as skill.........Obviously last year he was hurt all year, no one is worth it then, and this year the entire team has fallen apart. Is he worth the cap hit if we remain a 2nd to last place team in the league, absolutely not!

If we can get a 30 goal 60 point top line winger AND upgrade other areas of the team as well maybe I would agree with you, but how many players of his caliber can you get, in addition to another player that will equal cap hit?? I just dont see it happening unless it is a young guy on an entry level deal or someone due for a huge raise in the next year.....Either way we are not getting that for Briere.

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12-16-2009, 01:25 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
I know some people can't watch in HD and, therefore, miss some of the action. But you seem to not watch at all.
Thanks Val, I was beginning to think I was the only one that noticed that

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12-16-2009, 01:29 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Why can't you blame management for his contract? You act as if they had no other choice. They had options. The best option was to sign a stop gap until Carter and Richards developed instead of investing $52M in a #1 center when you had two players that could have been that guy if they were just patient enough to let them develop.

If you look at the great organizations in the NHL today like Detroit and New Jersey they rarely overpay for free agents. Meanwhile teams like the Flyers, Rangers, and Leafs try to rely on free agency to bypass the rebuilding phase and constantly fall short every year. Overpaying for free agents is not a recipe for success. It's even more absurd to do so in the cap world.

Personally I feel like our window is much smaller than it could have been due to overpaying for players like Briere. Can't blame management? Get out of here with that crazy talk.



Yes I would have.
I actually agree with your point, I didnt want to sign one of the high priced FAs at the time we signed Briere, I was hoping for a stop gap.....Problem with the comparison to Detroit and NJ is that those teams have always been able to find quality NHL players, sometimes stars in later rounds of the draft....Their scouting is unbelievable

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12-16-2009, 03:42 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
I actually agree with your point, I didnt want to sign one of the high priced FAs at the time we signed Briere, I was hoping for a stop gap.....Problem with the comparison to Detroit and NJ is that those teams have always been able to find quality NHL players, sometimes stars in later rounds of the draft....Their scouting is unbelievable
The Flyers just have to adapt their philosophy. I think we have good scouts, but their focus is too narrow. They focus too much on North America and too much on dime a dozen goons like Rinaldo and Klotz.

The Flyers also have to realize sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't make. Homer just focuses on the here and now instead of the bigger picture. Briere may have made sense for 1 year @ 6.5, but the next 7? A savvy GM doesn't fall for players coming off a career year in a contract year.

That's what I admire about Lamiorello even though I despise the Devils. He doesn't fall for the hype and he's also not afraid to let talented players walk instead of overpaying for their services.

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12-16-2009, 03:51 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
The Flyers just have to adapt their philosophy. I think we have good scouts, but their focus is too narrow. They focus too much on North America and too much on dime a dozen goons like Rinaldo and Klotz.

The Flyers also have to realize sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't make. Homer just focuses on the here and now instead of the bigger picture. Briere may have made sense for 1 year @ 6.5, but the next 7? A savvy GM doesn't fall for players coming off a career year in a contract year.

That's what I admire about Lamiorello even though I despise the Devils. He doesn't fall for the hype and he's also not afraid to let talented players walk instead of overpaying for their services.
Cant argue with any of this, I just dont hate Briere, or his contract, as much as some of you guys do.

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12-16-2009, 03:54 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Cant argue with any of this, I just dont hate Briere, or his contract, as much as some of you guys do.
I don't hate Briere himself, but I think some fans of his overrate him. Mostly I just have a problem with the contract because I feel like it is an albatross to our salary structure under the cap. It's not his fault of course. I blame our blockhead GM and ownership for their mentality that rebuilding is some shameful process. That's why they are Cupless for 3+ decades.

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12-16-2009, 04:01 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
I don't hate Briere himself, but I think some fans of his overrate him. Mostly I just have a problem with the contract because I feel like it is an albatross to our salary structure under the cap. It's not his fault of course. I blame our blockhead GM and ownership for their mentality that rebuilding is some shameful process. That's why they are Cupless for 3+ decades.
Agreed 100%. We had the perfect opportunity to do it a couple years ago as well and went out and signed Briere, Timonen, Hartnell.

However, its tough to argue in hindsight because that team did play its ass off and went to the conference finals....better coaching and our two best dmen not getting injured and maybe we beat the Pens, who knows.

Problem is Homer has screwed up the teams since then with too many moves and the win now mentality.

Thing is, for argument's sake lets say they did that and Briere is not here. My guess is that his money is probably allocated to Umberger and Lupul or at least one of those guys and one other player.....Is that better than Briere?

Is Umberger and Lupul, or, Umberger/Lupul + one other player an improvement over Briere???

Grass is always greener....We can all easily say that $6.5 million would have been nice to have the past couple year, or that the $6.5 million could improve the team in other areas but you also have to replace him with the right player(s) and at least one of those players needs to be a winger that is going to give you 30 goals

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Old
12-16-2009, 04:14 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Come on Storm, you know the case is never closed with me

I dont care that we disagree, I know you and I can disagree without it becoming personal....Just want to make you understand my point about the cap hit

I do think he is worth the cap hit with one caveat "WHEN THIS TEAM IS PLAYING THE WAY WE ALL BELIEVE IT SHOULD" His first year here I didnt give a crap about his cap hit cause he gave us almost a PPG and showed what he brought to this team as far as skill.........Obviously last year he was hurt all year, no one is worth it then, and this year the entire team has fallen apart. Is he worth the cap hit if we remain a 2nd to last place team in the league, absolutely not!

If we can get a 30 goal 60 point top line winger AND upgrade other areas of the team as well maybe I would agree with you, but how many players of his caliber can you get, in addition to another player that will equal cap hit?? I just dont see it happening unless it is a young guy on an entry level deal or someone due for a huge raise in the next year.....Either way we are not getting that for Briere.
60 point players don't cost $6.5M on your cap, though. I think that's all you really need on the wing because ideally, JVR and Giroux can reach close to PPG levels, Hartnell is a 60 point player, and Gagne is still around.

I just don't believe it's worth it to be paying him that much to score a PPG (if he gets back to that level). As long as we're a bad team his contract just looks worse and worse. We can't improve because of how bad our GM has ****ed things up and it all started with Briere.

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Old
12-16-2009, 04:19 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
60 point players don't cost $6.5M on your cap, though. I think that's all you really need on the wing because ideally, JVR and Giroux can reach close to PPG levels, Hartnell is a 60 point player, and Gagne is still around.

I just don't believe it's worth it to be paying him that much to score a PPG (if he gets back to that level). As long as we're a bad team his contract just looks worse and worse. We can't improve because of how bad our GM has ****ed things up and it all started with Briere.
But Briere is more than a 60 point player if this team starts playing well again....You arent getting that and another player for his money.

If they stay this bad than I agree move him if you can, although I dont see it happening. If they turn things around and are competing to win this year I want him on the team, thats all

I agree Homer ****ed up this team, but I think its been in all the stupid moves he has made since, not the Briere signing.

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