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Old
12-17-2009, 12:30 AM
  #26
TheSkatingDutchman
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FACT:Those are opinions.

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Old
12-17-2009, 06:43 AM
  #27
BobbyClarkeFan16
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I honestly think there's a locker room divide right now and it's a power struggle between Richards and Pronger. Honestly, the moment Pronger came on board, Richards should have relinquished the C to Pronger and just worry about playing his game. Instead, Richards has hung on to that C for dear life, pulled a bit of a 'tude with the media when questioned about how there was a party scene clique last season, and has not once sought out advice from either Pronger or Laperriere. Instead, he's internalized everything and has said the standard stuff to not get anyone upset.

I really think Pronger has held back, but if this streak continues, I could very easily see Pronger and Laperriere throw their weight around the locker room and make life miserable for Mike. If Mike wants to be a leader, now is the time to go to guys like Pronger and Laperriere and ask them to help. Ask them for advice, ask them to help lead the team. If it helps, maybe even give up the C to one of the two and have them lead the team. Keep an A, but learn from great leaders what it's like to lead. That would be the best thing.

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Old
12-17-2009, 07:01 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I honestly think there's a locker room divide right now and it's a power struggle between Richards and Pronger. Honestly, the moment Pronger came on board, Richards should have relinquished the C to Pronger and just worry about playing his game. Instead, Richards has hung on to that C for dear life, pulled a bit of a 'tude with the media when questioned about how there was a party scene clique last season, and has not once sought out advice from either Pronger or Laperriere. Instead, he's internalized everything and has said the standard stuff to not get anyone upset.

I really think Pronger has held back, but if this streak continues, I could very easily see Pronger and Laperriere throw their weight around the locker room and make life miserable for Mike. If Mike wants to be a leader, now is the time to go to guys like Pronger and Laperriere and ask them to help. Ask them for advice, ask them to help lead the team. If it helps, maybe even give up the C to one of the two and have them lead the team. Keep an A, but learn from great leaders what it's like to lead. That would be the best thing.
Umm, no. That's not what respected leaders and good teammates do. If Pronger or Laperriere do something like that then they are the cancers.

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Old
12-17-2009, 09:39 AM
  #29
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Biggest reason:

Entering the season, our 5 most important players were (no particular order): Richards, Carter, Pronger, Timonen and Emery.

Pronger played as expected, and has also really elevated Matt Carle as well. Pronger has struggled a bit the last 7-10 days, but generally has played as advertised.

Emery was excellent for 6 weeks, but then got hurt.

Timonen, has been nowhere close to the top 10-20 defenseman he's been the last 2 seasons. Hopefully as he continues to heal, his play will continue to rise ... and bring Coburn along with him.

Richards started hot, but has really faded. Now, not only is he not producing offensively ... he's turning the puck over and making poor decisions at an alarming rate. He hasn't been the same player since the Booth hit.

Carter ... has generally played well, but he's not finishing. He's getting the shots at the opportunities, but hos shot accuracy has completely vanished. He needs to start burying the chances.


We don't have any superstar level players ... but you team goes as your best players go ..... Richards, Carter, Timonen and Coburn need to elevate their game in order for this thing to get turned around.

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Old
12-17-2009, 09:53 AM
  #30
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Another poster 'Juice' who I feel is very hockey savvy... having been very involved in the game.. commented to me that the Flyers are trying too hard to be the Broad Street Bullies. Rather than playing hockey to win, they are playing hockey to maintain a reputation.
On Richards he said that he doesnt know quite what his role should be? Is he a first line center and scoring leader? Is he to shut down top line pairings?

As for Lavvy he says when he gets a chance he needs to sit each of them down and explain their roles...as they dont know currently.

I think this is pretty reasonable. Thoughts?

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Old
12-17-2009, 11:35 AM
  #31
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Jeez...there's a lot of crap in this thread

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Old
12-17-2009, 11:42 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CdnFlyersFan View Post
Another poster 'Juice' who I feel is very hockey savvy... having been very involved in the game.. commented to me that the Flyers are trying too hard to be the Broad Street Bullies. Rather than playing hockey to win, they are playing hockey to maintain a reputation.
On Richards he said that he doesnt know quite what his role should be? Is he a first line center and scoring leader? Is he to shut down top line pairings?

As for Lavvy he says when he gets a chance he needs to sit each of them down and explain their roles...as they dont know currently.

I think this is pretty reasonable. Thoughts?
Yes. Before the Stevens' firing, I was advocating patience and I still am. We have 9 new players on the roster, several others in new roles, and others acquired last year who attended their first camp. Some of those new players are strong personalities, so that needs to be sorted too and it doesn't happen overnight. Has anyone worked in an office where that's happened? You don't build that trust overnight.

The whole roster was turned over and it takes time to sort these things out, like chemistry, leadership, etc.

During the winning streak before Emery's injury, just before the road trip out West, they looked solid up and down the roster.

Betts' injury and Gagne's affected things, because it forced Carter and Richards to do more checking, and eliminated a skilled option. Relying too much on unproven guys like Giroux and JVR for offense is a hazard we fell into.

We need all the players to get on the same page and pull together, we need the leadership to sort itself out.

I am not prepared to blame partying as an excuse for Richards and Carter's lack of finish - they are both playing lots and well for the most part, creating chances and playing good D.

To make a panic trade now would be dumb, they need to win a couple games to give the team time to settle down. It might not happen tonight, but it will get better soon.

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Old
12-17-2009, 11:57 AM
  #33
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I agree that we dont have a TOP 15 player on our team.
Carter/richards ? i can name 15 guys i'd prefer to them...in fact i WILL

Ovechkin
Malkin
Kovalachuk
Crosby
Gaborik
Heatley
Thornton
Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Hossa
Kane
Toews
IGINLA
Lecavalier
St Louis
E. Staal

oops i went over 1

bottom line is, while pronger MAY be a top 3 defenseman in the league, the new NHL is about OFFENSE
Capitals, penguins, sharks, ALL role strong offensive teams.

Redwings/devils are good, but i dont think they will be able to beat the all out offensive style of hockey the above 3 play.
So what do we do?
we stop having our talent spread between so many guys. We have to trade a two guys for one better. Carter + Hartnell = Gaborik...ETC. we need to shrink our list of "scorers" so that it is a smaller, but more elite few.

keep giroux and JVR, but now we need to add a real all-star to our forwards. Richards has looked fine this year to me, so wouldnt trade him...i think he's not doing great cause he is the only one playing at times.
Carter=slacking (and over-rated in the eyes of other teams)
hartnell= cherry picker, no offensive talent
briere = wtf, 6mil?
gagne = talented, but not a STAR, i would keep him.

TRADE TIME PEOPLE, its do or DIE...if we dont WIN in the next two-three years, this franchise is gonna be in a SH!TLOAD OF TROUBLE.

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Old
12-17-2009, 12:23 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
bottom line is, while pronger MAY be a top 3 defenseman in the league, the new NHL is about OFFENSE
Capitals, penguins, sharks, ALL role strong offensive teams.
Don't kid yourself. The Pens got over the hump because they started playing excellent defense. Chicago has been on a tear with their top notch defense. Even Washington is clamping down (surprises the hell out of me). You need both to succeed in the NHL.

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Old
12-17-2009, 12:34 PM
  #35
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Jeez...there's a lot of crap in this thread
Truer than you know.

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Old
12-17-2009, 12:39 PM
  #36
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I thought we all already knew the real reason why we suck?

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Old
12-17-2009, 12:57 PM
  #37
tuckrr
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Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
Don't kid yourself. The Pens got over the hump because they started playing excellent defense. Chicago has been on a tear with their top notch defense. Even Washington is clamping down (surprises the hell out of me). You need both to succeed in the NHL.
they have good defense cause the puck is in the other side of the rink the whole time...
it doesnt work the other way around (apparently)

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Old
12-22-2009, 01:35 AM
  #38
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Just to refresh your memories.......

Playing the Role of Moderator: you're not a moderator so don't correct posters like one. If a thread or post violates the rules use the "Report This Post" button, rather than playing the parent.

Editorial comments such as "useless thread", "in before the lock", "this thread should be closed", etc. on the value of a thread or post are not welcome.

If you don't like a thread and it doesn't break any rules don't reply to it!

If you're interested in becoming a moderator you can send your application to moderators@hfboards.com





Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
I was going to post the Thread Failed stamp right away, but was too lazy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
Jeez...there's a lot of crap in this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
Truer than you know.
Over 30+ replies discussing multiple reasons why we others feel we stink, and this is all you can bring to the table? I think the only failed crap in this thread in your posts.

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Old
12-22-2009, 01:38 AM
  #39
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The real reason we suck:

We just suck. Richards and Carter are also the kings of Suckitty Suck Suck land.

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Old
12-22-2009, 02:08 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkatingDutchman View Post
FACT:Those are opinions.


Ok, I'll play along.
Lets have a closer look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bstreetbully View Post

Fact: The Flyers lack star power. To contend for and actually win a cup you need stars, we have none.
Fact #1. Every team has its best players, but many aren't "stars" when compared to the true ones across the league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bstreetbully View Post
Pittsburgh wins a cup with Crosby & Malkin. I'll stop there.
Fact #2. Last time I checked Pittsburgh won the cup last June and Crosby and Malkin are stars in this league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bstreetbully View Post
Detroit wins multiple cups with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Yzerman, Federov, and Lidstrom. Nuff said.
Fact #3. Last time I checked Detroit has won multiple cups since 96.

Fact #4. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Yzerman, Federov, and Lidstrom are/were stars in this league. Unless your head has been up your azz the last 13 years, is that really an opinion? At least 3 of them are locks for the HOF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bstreetbully View Post
What about the Devils you say....they won cups and continue to be contenders most years because their success is about a SYSTEM
Fact #5. Unless your head has been up your azz the last 13 years, is that really an opinion? If you don't think that team plays the ultimate team system and it is a large reason for its success, you must have been living on Mars since about 1993.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bstreetbully View Post
instead of having 6 individuals score 30 goals each in the regular season and then stand around and watch Claude Giroux be the best player last postseason.
Fact #6. Unless I'm missing something, we did have 6 players score 30+ goals last year. Please provide correction to disprove this fact.

Fact #7. If Claude Giroux wasn't the best player on this team last post season, what were you watching?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bstreetbully View Post
As it continues to play itself out, this teams lack of star power and leadership is why it is so bad. Absent MAJOR roster changes, we're no better than a 5 or 6 seed in this conference. That is Homers fault, not John Stevens.
Fact #8. Anyone watching this team the last 30 days can clearly see the lack of leadership and the fact that NO ONE is able to step up, put this team on his back, and lift it when it needs it most, PROVES the lack of a "true" star.

Fact #9. You're smoking something if you think this team will be a 1-4 seed come playoff time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bstreetbully View Post
Myth: We signed Pronger and Emery in the off season, we're better.

Fact: Better on paper, yes. Too bad the NHL is played on ice, not paper. See wikipedia definition for "Paper Tiger"
Fact #10. We are clearly better on paper. Pronger isn't better than Randy Jones? Emery isn't better than Biron?

Looks like the score is Facts 10--Opinions 0.
Unfortunately, I would have to say.....YOU FAIL......in your ridiculous assessment that the above FACTS are opinions.

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Old
12-22-2009, 02:12 AM
  #41
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this thread is on the downward spiral.
the newbie is making new friends I see.

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Old
12-22-2009, 03:10 AM
  #42
JDinkalage Morgoone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bstreetbully View Post


Ok, I'll play along.
Lets have a closer look.



Fact #1. Every team has its best players, but many aren't "stars" when compared to the true ones across the league.



Fact #2. Last time I checked Pittsburgh won the cup last June and Crosby and Malkin are stars in this league.



Fact #3. Last time I checked Detroit has won multiple cups since 96.

Fact #4. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Yzerman, Federov, and Lidstrom are/were stars in this league. Unless your head has been up your azz the last 13 years, is that really an opinion? At least 3 of them are locks for the HOF.



Fact #5. Unless your head has been up your azz the last 13 years, is that really an opinion? If you don't think that team plays the ultimate team system and it is a large reason for its success, you must have been living on Mars since about 1993.



Fact #6. Unless I'm missing something, we did have 6 players score 30+ goals last year. Please provide correction to disprove this fact.

Fact #7. If Claude Giroux wasn't the best player on this team last post season, what were you watching?



Fact #8. Anyone watching this team the last 30 days can clearly see the lack of leadership and the fact that NO ONE is able to step up, put this team on his back, and lift it when it needs it most, PROVES the lack of a "true" star.

Fact #9. You're smoking something if you think this team will be a 1-4 seed come playoff time.



Fact #10. We are clearly better on paper. Pronger isn't better than Randy Jones? Emery isn't better than Biron?

Looks like the score is Facts 10--Opinions 0.
Unfortunately, I would have to say.....YOU FAIL......in your ridiculous assessment that the above FACTS are opinions.
A modest man is the man who is able to quote himself seriously, and then support his opinions with more opinions.

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Old
12-22-2009, 03:18 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bstreetbully View Post
Just to refresh your memories.......

Playing the Role of Moderator: you're not a moderator so don't correct posters like one. If a thread or post violates the rules use the "Report This Post" button, rather than playing the parent.

Editorial comments such as "useless thread", "in before the lock", "this thread should be closed", etc. on the value of a thread or post are not welcome.

If you don't like a thread and it doesn't break any rules don't reply to it!

If you're interested in becoming a moderator you can send your application to moderators@hfboards.com

Over 30+ replies discussing multiple reasons why we others feel we stink, and this is all you can bring to the table? I think the only failed crap in this thread in your posts.





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Old
12-22-2009, 03:41 AM
  #44
JDinkalage Morgoone
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Old
12-22-2009, 05:29 AM
  #45
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I have been thinking about this and also seen it somewhere as well. I was just wondering what if this team isn't physically in shape for PL? Is he working them too hard? Are we simply gassed when it comes to game time? I mean under John Stevens things were light, and I know this streak started with JS, but could this have anything to do with it right now?

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Old
12-22-2009, 05:33 AM
  #46
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i think its a collection of things that have turned a chemistry issue into an identity crisis. i think theres been too much turnover. off the ice i think the older guys think the young ones are being unprofessional and the young guys feel like these new additions arent interested in being part of the team. i think losing knuble means there isnt someone the young guys know and respect and losing upshall means there isnt somebody to tell the older guys to quit hatein. and on the ice where richards should be able to lead em through it theyve taken away his biggest voice in his shutdown role. he earned all the players respect in the past through his hard work and dedication to defensive play and now hes in the role of a scoring center where hes less effective as a player and losing ground as captain because of it. and the veteran guys you want to lead the team offensively in gagne and briere have been ijured and shuffled around the lineup themselves.

i think the new coach needs to let this team get healthy and adjsut to the new system a liitle and then work on the players and thier roles in the lineup after they figure out who fits where well know who doesnt fit and make adjustments. and if there is to be yet more turnover i think it should be familiar faces coming back. either guys the players know to reolve the tension in the room or guys lavi can trust to fit a role in his system.

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Old
12-22-2009, 06:17 AM
  #47
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what kills me is watching the pregame interview with pronger and giroux. they looked excited to play, and seemed pumped about scoring goals. they really seemed to believe they were gonna jump off the bench and get things rolling tonight. considering the rumors about a split between the young guys and veterans, i'm glad to see both of them so excited about playing a game, and believing they'd win.

then they started playing...and who knows what went wrong. maybe they were just hammered the whole time.

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Old
12-22-2009, 07:51 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hextall89 View Post
A modest man is the man who is able to quote himself seriously, and then support his opinions with more opinions.
Ha, I LOLed at how true this is.

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Old
12-22-2009, 10:15 AM
  #49
Wud
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bstreetbully View Post


Ok, I'll play along.
Lets have a closer look.



Fact #1. Every team has its best players, but many aren't "stars" when compared to the true ones across the league.



Fact #2. Last time I checked Pittsburgh won the cup last June and Crosby and Malkin are stars in this league.



Fact #3. Last time I checked Detroit has won multiple cups since 96.

Fact #4. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Yzerman, Federov, and Lidstrom are/were stars in this league. Unless your head has been up your azz the last 13 years, is that really an opinion? At least 3 of them are locks for the HOF.



Fact #5. Unless your head has been up your azz the last 13 years, is that really an opinion? If you don't think that team plays the ultimate team system and it is a large reason for its success, you must have been living on Mars since about 1993.



Fact #6. Unless I'm missing something, we did have 6 players score 30+ goals last year. Please provide correction to disprove this fact.

Fact #7. If Claude Giroux wasn't the best player on this team last post season, what were you watching?



Fact #8. Anyone watching this team the last 30 days can clearly see the lack of leadership and the fact that NO ONE is able to step up, put this team on his back, and lift it when it needs it most, PROVES the lack of a "true" star.

Fact #9. You're smoking something if you think this team will be a 1-4 seed come playoff time.



Fact #10. We are clearly better on paper. Pronger isn't better than Randy Jones? Emery isn't better than Biron?

Looks like the score is Facts 10--Opinions 0.
Unfortunately, I would have to say.....YOU FAIL......in your ridiculous assessment that the above FACTS are opinions.
LoL

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Old
12-22-2009, 11:51 AM
  #50
KenAF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
i think its a collection of things that have turned a chemistry issue into an identity crisis. i think theres been too much turnover. off the ice i think the older guys think the young ones are being unprofessional and the young guys feel like these new additions arent interested in being part of the team. i think losing knuble means there isnt someone the young guys know and respect and losing upshall means there isnt somebody to tell the older guys to quit hatein.
Chemistry (or lack thereof) is one of the greatest contributors to team success. Unfortunately, it's also one of the hardest factors to predict.

With Upshall, Phoenix is now 22-13-2, whereas they were 16-14-5 at this point last season. Playing on the top line, Upshall leads Phoenix in goals, game-winning goals, shooting %, and even strength points. Last year, Phoenix lost many of its close games; this year, they are winning them.

Coincidental or not, the Capitals are seeing much more secondary scoring with Knuble in the lineup; they have 10 players with 6+ goals and six players with 9+ goals. Knuble's screens are directly responsible for a number of those goals; above average shots from second liners that were seen and blocked last year are going in because the goalie doesn't see them coming. Knuble has also provided veteran leadership in the locker room and is usually the first person interviewed after a win or loss.

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