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Old
12-16-2009, 01:27 PM
  #76
GordieHoweHatTrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
How could it possibly be debatable?

Where is Kessel's Stanley cup? (Ducks)
When did he carry a team to the finals? (Edmonton)
Where is his Hart trophy? (St. Louis)

Pronger is a winner no matter where he goes and the teams he plays on do well.

The Edmonton team he took to the finals wasn't stacked. They were expected to lose to the Wings, the Sharks and the Ducks but they overcame the odds because he's a vacuum cleaner in his own end. He plays great positional hockey. He's incredibly durable. He delivers bone-crushing hits which literally strike fear into the hearts of other players and... he's awesome offensively.

The only knock on Pronger is he does something dumb which gets him suspended for a game or two from time to time. But 29/30 games he's gold.
Are you seriously trying to compare a 22y/o sniper with a 35y/o defenseman? Trying to justify it by saying that Pronger has a SC ring is even more laughable.

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Old
12-16-2009, 01:30 PM
  #77
Cairbre
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
How could it possibly be debatable?

Where is Kessel's Stanley cup? (Ducks)
When did he carry a team to the finals? (Edmonton)
Where is his Hart trophy? (St. Louis)

Pronger is a winner no matter where he goes and the teams he plays on do well.

The Edmonton team he took to the finals wasn't stacked. They were expected to lose to the Wings, the Sharks and the Ducks but they overcame the odds because he's a vacuum cleaner in his own end. He plays great positional hockey. He's incredibly durable. He delivers bone-crushing hits which literally strike fear into the hearts of other players and... he's awesome offensively.

The only knock on Pronger is he does something dumb which gets him suspended for a game or two from time to time. But 29/30 games he's gold.
Wow

I really hope you recognize the fallacy in your argument.


Last edited by Cairbre: 12-16-2009 at 01:40 PM.
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Old
12-16-2009, 01:32 PM
  #78
glucker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
How could it possibly be debatable?

Where is Kessel's Stanley cup? (Ducks)
When did he carry a team to the finals? (Edmonton)
Where is his Hart trophy? (St. Louis)

Pronger is a winner no matter where he goes and the teams he plays on do well.

The Edmonton team he took to the finals wasn't stacked. They were expected to lose to the Wings, the Sharks and the Ducks but they overcame the odds because he's a vacuum cleaner in his own end. He plays great positional hockey. He's incredibly durable. He delivers bone-crushing hits which literally strike fear into the hearts of other players and... he's awesome offensively.

The only knock on Pronger is he does something dumb which gets him suspended for a game or two from time to time. But 29/30 games he's gold.
he's also old... and given the game he plays, it's not long before the decay becomes evident... he's already hitting less.... 74th in the league(and you have guys like Finger and XLB right behind him in that department, in ~half the games played). Kessel is getting better, and is around 6 years away from hitting his prime, while Pronger is on the decline.


sidenote: how is Pronger's contract even legal? it goes from 4M to 0.5 over 1 summer

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Old
12-16-2009, 01:41 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Cairbre View Post
I believe this is very much debatable.
Wait what? Yes, a top 3 defenseman in the league is better then Kessel.... sorry....

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Old
12-16-2009, 01:46 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Wait what? Yes, a top 3 defenseman in the league is better then Kessel.... sorry....
Pronger a Top 3 defenseman in the NHL today

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Old
12-16-2009, 01:47 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
How could it possibly be debatable?

Where is Kessel's Stanley cup? (Ducks)
When did he carry a team to the finals? (Edmonton)
Where is his Hart trophy? (St. Louis)

Pronger is a winner no matter where he goes and the teams he plays on do well.

The Edmonton team he took to the finals wasn't stacked. They were expected to lose to the Wings, the Sharks and the Ducks but they overcame the odds because he's a vacuum cleaner in his own end. He plays great positional hockey. He's incredibly durable. He delivers bone-crushing hits which literally strike fear into the hearts of other players and... he's awesome offensively.

The only knock on Pronger is he does something dumb which gets him suspended for a game or two from time to time. But 29/30 games he's gold.
haha.....what? I think it's a little unfair to say that Pronger is a better asset because he's had accomplishments. He has had 12 more seasons in the NHL to do that. Based on you logic, would you have considered Ovechkin inferior to Pronger before he was awarded the Hart last year?

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Old
12-16-2009, 01:49 PM
  #82
glucker
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Originally Posted by Dylbot View Post
haha.....what? I think it's a little unfair to say that Pronger is a better asset because he's had accomplishments. He has had 12 more seasons in the NHL to do that. Based on you logic, would you have considered Ovechkin inferior to Pronger before he was awarded the Hart last year?
Ovechkin is inferior still... he doesn't have a cup ring and he hasn't led a team to the finals

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Old
12-16-2009, 02:03 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Cairbre View Post
Pronger a Top 3 defenseman in the NHL today
im having a hard time coming up with 3 defensemen whom are better than pronger

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Old
12-16-2009, 02:08 PM
  #84
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this makes a lot of sense for a rebuilding team...

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Old
12-16-2009, 02:33 PM
  #85
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Why didn't anyone even acknowledge the trade someone put up??
It was....

To TOR
Jeff Carter
Ryan Parent

To PHI
Luke Schenn
Mikhail Grabovski
Vesa Toskala

That trade actually makes a bit of sense. Emery is out for a month and a half, and the Flyers obviously have no decent back-up goalie. This is Vesa's last year on contract, so they could resign him as a backup or let him go. Schenn has more potential than Parent, and Toronto gets a 1st line center... Philly gets a 2nd line centre in Grabovski to fill the void up front. I could see Toronto having to add a bit of value since Carter is a gun, but still the basis is kinda there.

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Old
12-16-2009, 02:40 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojo027 View Post
Why didn't anyone even acknowledge the trade someone put up??
It was....

To TOR
Jeff Carter
Ryan Parent

To PHI
Luke Schenn
Mikhail Grabovski
Vesa Toskala

That trade actually makes a bit of sense. Emery is out for a month and a half, and the Flyers obviously have no decent back-up goalie. This is Vesa's last year on contract, so they could resign him as a backup or let him go. Schenn has more potential than Parent, and Toronto gets a 1st line center... Philly gets a 2nd line centre in Grabovski to fill the void up front. I could see Toronto having to add a bit of value since Carter is a gun, but still the basis is kinda there.
Flyers don't want Toskala. And that's not enough value for Carter and Parent. Decent start but more needs to come back

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Old
12-16-2009, 03:23 PM
  #87
glucker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojo027 View Post
Why didn't anyone even acknowledge the trade someone put up??
It was....

To TOR
Jeff Carter
Ryan Parent

To PHI
Luke Schenn
Mikhail Grabovski
Vesa Toskala

That trade actually makes a bit of sense. Emery is out for a month and a half, and the Flyers obviously have no decent back-up goalie. This is Vesa's last year on contract, so they could resign him as a backup or let him go. Schenn has more potential than Parent, and Toronto gets a 1st line center... Philly gets a 2nd line centre in Grabovski to fill the void up front. I could see Toronto having to add a bit of value since Carter is a gun, but still the basis is kinda there.
I don't know if it's a good idea to give up Schenn, or Toskala now that he's playing well... at least not at this stage of the season.

we have 2 guys who could shape up as 1st line centers in Kadri and Bozak(abit of a long shot)... and there are 2 UFA 1st line centers that could potentially be nabbed. Now, I'm not saying Kadri, Marleau, Bozak, or Jokinen are better than Carter(even though he is having a poor season), but I don't really see us being so desperate for a 1st line center that we'd be willing to trade away Schenn for one.

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Old
12-16-2009, 05:46 PM
  #88
The Blue Devil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glucker View Post
Ovechkin is inferior still... he doesn't have a cup ring and he hasn't led a team to the finals
Yeah because it's his fault his team can't perform in the playoffs. Winning the cup has everything to do with your team not a single player. Look at Ovie's personal awards, he's a crap load better then Pronger is/was.

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Old
12-16-2009, 06:53 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by glucker View Post
I don't know if it's a good idea to give up Schenn, or Toskala now that he's playing well... at least not at this stage of the season.

we have 2 guys who could shape up as 1st line centers in Kadri and Bozak(abit of a long shot)... and there are 2 UFA 1st line centers that could potentially be nabbed. Now, I'm not saying Kadri, Marleau, Bozak, or Jokinen are better than Carter(even though he is having a poor season), but I don't really see us being so desperate for a 1st line center that we'd be willing to trade away Schenn for one.
thats a reason to trade Toskala to get the best value for him. Jokenin is definately not a top line center toronto should go after. plus Marleau will NOT and i repeat NOT sign with Toronto unless Ron Wilson is not there, due to the fact of what had occured in SJ

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Old
12-16-2009, 07:49 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
How could it possibly be debatable?

Where is Kessel's Stanley cup? (Ducks)
When did he carry a team to the finals? (Edmonton)
Where is his Hart trophy? (St. Louis)

Pronger is a winner no matter where he goes and the teams he plays on do well.

The Edmonton team he took to the finals wasn't stacked. They were expected to lose to the Wings, the Sharks and the Ducks but they overcame the odds because he's a vacuum cleaner in his own end. He plays great positional hockey. He's incredibly durable. He delivers bone-crushing hits which literally strike fear into the hearts of other players and... he's awesome offensively.

The only knock on Pronger is he does something dumb which gets him suspended for a game or two from time to time. But 29/30 games he's gold.
Um...current value? Pronger has had a long and storied career, that much everyone can admit. But...Edmonton? St Louis? Can we stick in the present?

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Old
12-16-2009, 07:55 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
Yeah because it's his fault his team can't perform in the playoffs. Winning the cup has everything to do with your team not a single player. Look at Ovie's personal awards, he's a crap load better then Pronger is/was.
Haha calm down brosef. He was being sarcastic.

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Old
12-16-2009, 08:17 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
How could it possibly be debatable?

Where is Kessel's Stanley cup? (Ducks)
When did he carry a team to the finals? (Edmonton)
Where is his Hart trophy? (St. Louis)

Pronger is a winner no matter where he goes and the teams he plays on do well.

The Edmonton team he took to the finals wasn't stacked. They were expected to lose to the Wings, the Sharks and the Ducks but they overcame the odds because he's a vacuum cleaner in his own end. He plays great positional hockey. He's incredibly durable. He delivers bone-crushing hits which literally strike fear into the hearts of other players and... he's awesome offensively.

The only knock on Pronger is he does something dumb which gets him suspended for a game or two from time to time. But 29/30 games he's gold.
2006 called, it wants your perception of reality back.

Pronger's accumulated a few other knocks since then. Such as, his penchance for being abused like a little girl by anyone with speed.

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Old
12-16-2009, 09:20 PM
  #93
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Old
12-16-2009, 10:53 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Cairbre View Post
Haha calm down brosef. He was being sarcastic.
Excellent avtar; best christmas movie bar none. I'm a big fan of Hartnell, what would it take for the Leafs to aquire him? There are some rumors of some indescretions; maybe moving Hartnell could aleviate that.

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Old
12-17-2009, 09:24 AM
  #95
glucker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOCap1 View Post
thats a reason to trade Toskala to get the best value for him. Jokenin is definately not a top line center toronto should go after. plus Marleau will NOT and i repeat NOT sign with Toronto unless Ron Wilson is not there, due to the fact of what had occured in SJ
Burke wants this team to challenge for/make the playoffs. You don't do that by trading away your #1 goaltender, until you're certain you have a replacement.

Marleau has said that he would play for Wilson again, there's no reason to assume he's not being truthful.

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Old
12-17-2009, 09:25 AM
  #96
glucker
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Originally Posted by Cairbre View Post
Haha calm down brosef. He was being sarcastic.
me? sarcastic?

you, sir have insulted my honor!

THIS WILL NOT STAND!

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Old
12-17-2009, 01:21 PM
  #97
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Any Flyers fan saying no is either crazy or a homer.

Apparently getting younger and all around better "Doesn't improve the Flyers"

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Old
12-17-2009, 06:46 PM
  #98
BoldNewLettuce
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
To Philadelphia:

Kaberle
Kessel

To Toronto:

Pronger
Hartnell

Discuss.

Side note:

Coburn to Dallas for Niskanen.
might as well add kadri, gusto and emery to make it a total mind****

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