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09-10 Canucks Injury Status

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Old
12-12-2009, 12:29 PM
  #226
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Jason Botchford says the time line for Demitra's return is late January / early February.
http://twitter.com/BotchonCanucks/status/6579935175

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12-13-2009, 01:06 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
Jason Botchford says the time line for Demitra's return is late January / early February.
http://twitter.com/BotchonCanucks/status/6579935175
Ok, I have some really dumb questions.

1st, how does Botchford know that? did the Canucks brass tell him or he's figured this out through his own investigative work or its just his opinion? Sorry, I don't have access to his tweets (?) because I don't want to register - the fact he's protected his tweet = can't be quoted on these boards because its not verifiable, IMO.

2nd, this is like the 3rd or 4th revision to Demitra's planned return date. How firm is that? On what medical basis? Because if they've missed 3 deadlines already, how can we have any confidence in the 4th timeline?

Point being, why doesn't the team just call a spade a spade and say they don't know when he'll return, he's still experiencing bla bla bla. That's one thing I liked about Burke - he would probably just say "we don't have a ******* clue when Demitra will be back".

By the way, no answer is an answer in itself...

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12-13-2009, 01:59 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Outside99 View Post
Ok, I have some really dumb questions.

1st, how does Botchford know that? did the Canucks brass tell him or he's figured this out through his own investigative work or its just his opinion? Sorry, I don't have access to his tweets (?) because I don't want to register - the fact he's protected his tweet = can't be quoted on these boards because its not verifiable, IMO.

2nd, this is like the 3rd or 4th revision to Demitra's planned return date. How firm is that? On what medical basis? Because if they've missed 3 deadlines already, how can we have any confidence in the 4th timeline?

Point being, why doesn't the team just call a spade a spade and say they don't know when he'll return, he's still experiencing bla bla bla. That's one thing I liked about Burke - he would probably just say "we don't have a ******* clue when Demitra will be back".

By the way, no answer is an answer in itself...
Send Botchford a tweet and ask.
http://twitter.com/BotchonCanucks

As a general rule reporters have much better sources than the average HF poster - unless you are Matt Sekeres of the National Post of course.

I would suspect that Botchford is getting this from somewhere within the Canucks or maybe from Demitra. IIRC Botchford was first with the report that Demitra's rehab from his first operation was not going very well. Demitra then had to have the second operation on his shoulder that pushed back his return date.

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12-14-2009, 12:18 PM
  #229
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According to Murph, Edler just skated before the team, took some slappers, and looked good doing so. Still not ready, though.

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12-14-2009, 12:29 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by xtr3m View Post
According to Murph, Edler just skated before the team, took some slappers, and looked good doing so. Still not ready, though.
That's really positive that he's at least on the ice and taking shots. Hopefully he'll be back soon.

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12-14-2009, 12:39 PM
  #231
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the guy I want to see back soon is Grabner. Edler will get his spot back whenever he returns to the lineup... Grabner needs to be lucky. Right now our forward lines are still not set, but the team is winning again, and if that happens when Grabner is back, doesn't matter how much a mess our lines are, he will be in Manitoba.

However, if he's ready soon, while the team is still trying to find the right fits and still aren't past their inconsistency issues, he stands a great chance to be back in the lineup.

I'd love to see Grabner back next to Kesler/Raymond... but he'll need a whole lot of luck I think to get there... good luck for him though, comes only from bad luck for the Canucks... otherwise Gillis isn't going to waive a player to keep him in the lineup.

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12-14-2009, 02:05 PM
  #232
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Grabner: Update Anyone???

Any word on when Grabner will be back? I haven't heard anything on him since he left. I liked how well he was playing before he got injured. He really looked good with Kesler and Raymond.

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12-14-2009, 02:10 PM
  #233
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Skated today, probably still a couple weeks away

This was from December 10th

Quote:
Grabner resumed skating Wednesday, five-and-a-half weeks after breaking his right ankle Nov. 1 while warming up in a hallway soccer game at GM Place.

Grabner, 22, actually suffered two fractures in the freak accident when he landed awkwardly on his toes and rolled the ankle. Stuff, indeed, does happen.

“Wednesday was the first day I skated on it and it felt pretty good, but it was a little sore this morning,” Grabner said Thursday. “For now, I'm going to go every second day. We're trying to push it a little bit every day and see how it feels and see how the foot reacts to it.

“We knew it was going to be sore and we just have to see that it doesn't get worse.”
.
.
.
Grabner estimated he would be sidelined another one to two weeks, with two weeks being the more likely scenario.

“You can't really set a time on it,” he explained. “I was talking to the doctor Tuesday and he said we really have to go by the pain. He said it will probably be between a week and two weeks. It just depends on how the pain feels on the ice and after the workouts.

“So it could be next week if I feel good tomorrow and it gets better and better every day. It could be quickly.”
http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/h...642/story.html

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12-14-2009, 02:20 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
the guy I want to see back soon is Grabner. Edler will get his spot back whenever he returns to the lineup... Grabner needs to be lucky. Right now our forward lines are still not set, but the team is winning again, and if that happens when Grabner is back, doesn't matter how much a mess our lines are, he will be in Manitoba.

However, if he's ready soon, while the team is still trying to find the right fits and still aren't past their inconsistency issues, he stands a great chance to be back in the lineup.

I'd love to see Grabner back next to Kesler/Raymond... but he'll need a whole lot of luck I think to get there... good luck for him though, comes only from bad luck for the Canucks... otherwise Gillis isn't going to waive a player to keep him in the lineup.
I think Grabner has a spot already. He'd have to play himself off the team at this point. He'll probably play a couple with the Moose for conditioning.

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Old
12-14-2009, 02:31 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by givemeda411 View Post
Any word on when Grabner will be back? I haven't heard anything on him since he left. I liked how well he was playing before he got injured. He really looked good with Kesler and Raymond.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=678855

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12-14-2009, 04:15 PM
  #236
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NHl.com had him after xmas.........

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Old
12-14-2009, 04:17 PM
  #237
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Relocated the Grabner question to the injury thread.

~Canucklehead~

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Old
12-14-2009, 04:47 PM
  #238
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Jason Botchford on Demitra's status:
Quote:
(And anyone wondering about Demitra, keep wondering. No return date any time soon)
http://twitter.com/BotchonCanucks/status/6673133595

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12-17-2009, 02:28 PM
  #239
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Grabner close to returning but likely to the Moose on a conditioning stint:
Quote:
Grabner close, skated with team but expect him to do a conditioning stint in Manitoba
http://twitter.com/BotchonCanucks/status/6773299453

And an update after Thursday's practise:
Quote:
Canucks winger Michael Grabner is close to returning to action, but is likely looking at a conditioning stint with the AHL Manitoba Moose before consideration is given to getting into an NHL game.

Grabner broke his ankle in two places in a freak accident in a soccer warm-up drill on Nov. 1 just before the Canucks hosted the Colorado Avalanche.

“The ankle feels good, no pain,” said Grabner following his first full practice with the team on Thursday.

“I've just got to get my lungs and my legs in shape.”

Head coach Alain Vigneault wouldn't confirm that Grabner would be assigned to Manitoba, but agreed that such a move would be “logical.”

Grabner, 22, had 2-3-5 in nine games with Vancouver before the injury and looked to be finally finding the confidence necessary to play in the NHL.
http://www.theprovince.com/sports/ho...112/story.html


Last edited by Wetcoaster: 12-17-2009 at 03:38 PM. Reason: Update
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Old
12-17-2009, 05:49 PM
  #240
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AV stands for A Vulcan

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Old
12-17-2009, 05:50 PM
  #241
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AV stands for A Vulcan
Sounds like a good photoshop opportunity...

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12-17-2009, 06:32 PM
  #242
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Can't wait for Grabner to return. He was starting to look really good before his injury.

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12-18-2009, 01:54 AM
  #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
Grabner close to returning but likely to the Moose on a conditioning stint:

http://twitter.com/BotchonCanucks/status/6773299453

And an update after Thursday's practise:

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/ho...112/story.html
Makes total sense as it allows him to get back up to speed in an environment he's familiar with, gives a boost to the Moose, gives Canucks some breathing room roster move wise and makes it more likely that he will stick when he returns.

means Gillis has to make a roster move (or two - the team does have an issue at center) of some sort before Jan. 7 or so (unless someone else gets injured).

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12-18-2009, 08:59 AM
  #244
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[*]Michael Grabner out with a broken ankle and is due back around Christmas (likey a conditioning assignment to the Moose)
I'm being nit-plcky here, but why would the Canucks put Grabner on a conditioning assignment when they could just demote him and get his salary off the books while he's down?

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12-18-2009, 11:23 AM
  #245
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I'm being nit-plcky here, but why would the Canucks put Grabner on a conditioning assignment when they could just demote him and get his salary off the books while he's down?
I think he has played well enough to deserve to stay with the club. It would be a slap in the face to lose your job due to injury. By sending him down for a conditioning stint it allows him to get a couple games in at a good pace.

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12-18-2009, 11:44 AM
  #246
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I think he has played well enough to deserve to stay with the club. It would be a slap in the face to lose your job due to injury. By sending him down for a conditioning stint it allows him to get a couple games in at a good pace.
I disagree.

If it's a slap to his face by sending him back to Manitoba, it's a slap to the player's face that he replaced as an injury call-up and took his lineup spot due to that injury.

People seem to forget (or ignore) that Grabner did not make this team out of camp. He was an injury replacement himself when he was called-up and took another player's spot who was injured.

So why should he, as an injury call-up, be given a spot now once he comes back from his own injury?

I don't think he's being sent down on a conditioning stint either... I think it's more just the media's wording on it. It makes zero sense to send him on a conditioning stint unless you're prepared to lose another player on the roster. Once he's back from IR, the Canucks either have to send him down, or they have to waive another player. A conditioning stint means he's still part of the 23 man allowable roster, which means that you have to waive a player to make him fit.

I can't see Gillis doing that right now... he'll take as much time as he can before making that decision, as another player can end up on IR before forcing his hand. Just makes infinitely more sense to send Grabner to the minors once he's off IR, and then call him up when there's another injury, which we all know will happen. As much as I'd like to see it, I don't think that Gillis is going to waive Hordichuk or Wellwood yet, when he can still send Grabner to the Moose without having to worry about losing someone else.

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12-18-2009, 11:49 AM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Outside99 View Post
Makes total sense as it allows him to get back up to speed in an environment he's familiar with, gives a boost to the Moose, gives Canucks some breathing room roster move wise and makes it more likely that he will stick when he returns.

means Gillis has to make a roster move (or two - the team does have an issue at center) of some sort before Jan. 7 or so (unless someone else gets injured).
I'm doubting the "conditioning stint" here... I think it's more likely he just gets sent down, and the media is just using the wrong wording here.

Do you really expect Gillis to waive someone so they can move Grabner from the IR to conditioning stint, instead of just sending him to the minors (as he's not waiver eligible) and not have to waive anyone?

Considering that putting Grabner on a conditioning stint as opposed to just sending him to the minors, means that you have to lock up one of the 23 roster spots, I can't see Gillis doing that for a player who is not waive eligible.

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12-18-2009, 12:15 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
I disagree.

If it's a slap to his face by sending him back to Manitoba, it's a slap to the player's face that he replaced as an injury call-up and took his lineup spot due to that injury.

People seem to forget (or ignore) that Grabner did not make this team out of camp. He was an injury replacement himself when he was called-up and took another player's spot who was injured.

So why should he, as an injury call-up, be given a spot now once he comes back from his own injury?

I don't think he's being sent down on a conditioning stint either... I think it's more just the media's wording on it. It makes zero sense to send him on a conditioning stint unless you're prepared to lose another player on the roster. Once he's back from IR, the Canucks either have to send him down, or they have to waive another player. A conditioning stint means he's still part of the 23 man allowable roster, which means that you have to waive a player to make him fit.

I can't see Gillis doing that right now... he'll take as much time as he can before making that decision, as another player can end up on IR before forcing his hand. Just makes infinitely more sense to send Grabner to the minors once he's off IR, and then call him up when there's another injury, which we all know will happen. As much as I'd like to see it, I don't think that Gillis is going to waive Hordichuk or Wellwood yet, when he can still send Grabner to the Moose without having to worry about losing someone else.
As Grabner is currently on LTIR he is not taking up one of the 23 available roster spaces.

Grabner can be sent to the Moose on a LTIR conditioning loan with his consent for the longer of 6 days or three games and remain off the roster for the duration of that loan per CBA 13.9 as it allows a:
Quote:
("Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception Conditioning Loan") for a period not to exceed up to the longer of six (6) days and three (3) games, solely for the purpose of determining whether the Player is fit to play... A Player on a Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception Conditioning Loan will continue to be listed on Injured Reserve and will not count against the Club's 23-man roster limit. The Club's Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception will continue until the Conditioning Loan ends, and his Paragraph 1 NHL Salary and Bonuses will continue to count against the Club's Upper Limit and the Players' Share during such time.
The reason to send Grabner down and not use the conditioning loan is that it has the effect of removing his salary from being counted against the cap for the Canucks. In that case Grabner also reverts to his minor league salary which would not be the case if sent on a conditioning loan where he would continue to draw his NHL salary.

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12-18-2009, 12:18 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
As Grabner is currently on LTIR he is not taking up one of the 23 available roster spaces.

Grabner can be sent on a LTIR conditioning loan with his consent for and remain off the roster for the duration of that loan per CBA 13.9 as it allows a:


The reason to send Grabner down and not use the conditioning loan is that it has the effect of removing his salary from being counted against the cap for the Canucks. In that case Grabner also reverts to his minor league salary which would not be the case if sent on a conditioning loan where he would continue to draw his NHL salary.
my mistake then.... I was under the impression that the rules stated if a player is on a conditioning loan, he would be subject to the 23 man roster requirements overall... and if he was on a conditioning stint, he would be taken off IR to count as well... if this isn't true, that it makes more sense.

but then the cap situation becomes a concern as the team is already tight against the cap.

however, as mentioned, if he is not forcing the team to waive a player to stay within the 23-man requirement, then my comments on the conditioning issue are obviously wrong.

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Old
12-18-2009, 12:33 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
my mistake then.... I was under the impression that the rules stated if a player is on a conditioning loan, he would be subject to the 23 man roster requirements overall... and if he was on a conditioning stint, he would be taken off IR to count as well... if this isn't true, that it makes more sense.

but then the cap situation becomes a concern as the team is already tight against the cap.

however, as mentioned, if he is not forcing the team to waive a player to stay within the 23-man requirement, then my comments on the conditioning issue are obviously wrong.
It can get confusing as there are two sorts of conditioning loans with different assignment limits.

The regular one like Rome just completed and on that conditioning loan the player is on the 23 man roster at the time of the loan and continues to count against the 23 man limit while on loan. That is set out at CBA 13.8.

The second sort is the LTIR conditioning loan and for that the player must first be on LTIR. As noted that is set out at CBA 13.9. Also note that unlike the regular conditioning loan it can be extended:
Quote:
The Commissioner, upon good cause, may approve the onetime extension. The Commissioner's approval shall not be unreasonably withheld.... A Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Conditioning Loan may be extended on one occasion. This procedure can only be used once during each period of time that the Player is on a Bona Fide Long-Term Injury Exception.

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