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Torts: "Attitude stinks around here"

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Old
12-19-2009, 04:37 AM
  #26
King of cool
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We'll see soon enough whether or not the coach lost his troops. As mentioned above, there's nothing to lose right now. Let's find a pattern tonight and build on it.

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12-19-2009, 06:17 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
I like it. My only issue is, What the hell took so long, Torts?

I think he gave these guys enough rope to hang themselves. He tries to work with them & out his system into play & they aren't playing the style he want's, they aren't even playing half way decent Hockey to this point.

He did what he needed to do. He rocked the players world. It's not gonna be the same around here anymore.

Torts Mentioned he doesn't care how much you make or what Draft pick you were. I wonder what draft pick he was reffering to. Dubinsky maybe?

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Old
12-19-2009, 07:04 AM
  #28
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On Redden--generally he's played better this year. More or less he's been playing it safe. He's faded a bit because earlier on the Rangers had more puck possession--with less possession he's exposed more. The thing that pisses you with him is that for $6.5 mil (and with 4 more seasons to go) you'd expect any player making that kind of money to be a difference maker. He's not.

Kotalik at even strength is a nightmare. He's also a penalty taking machine--and not good ones--hooks and trips.

As for Torts and accountability--it sounds great. We'll see if it lasts. If this team gets to mid to late February and it's obvious we're not going to be in the playoffs there's no point playing your underachievers then. There's more point to sending them (Wolf)packing and giving NHL experience to guys currently on the farm. At least that's how I see it. Drury might not be able to go but Redden, Rozsival and Kotalik--it should be see you next year (or not) time.

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Old
12-19-2009, 07:55 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Vidic15 View Post
It looks like the entitlement culture didn't leave with Gomez. I pegged him as the main culprit.
The culture of entitlement begins at the top with Jimmy Dolan. If you read any of the number of articles that have been posted recently, you'll see that he's pretty obviously a poor little rich kid who's desperate to separate himself from his father's legacy.

Why? Because he obviously deserves one of his own.

I daresay Glen Sather's arrogance may also suggest a sense of entitlement. After all, he has four Cups, and if he had the Rangers money, he'd never miss the playoffs.


Last edited by dedalus: 12-19-2009 at 08:01 AM.
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Old
12-19-2009, 08:16 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by BleedsBlueforNYR View Post

Too early to give Torts a free pass just yet on his meltdown, but if we keep playing like we did Thursday and win some games, I'll forget about him not answering LB.
am i the only one who was less than impressed with the post meltdown against the isles? There wasnt much difference in overall performance other than rolo ******** the bed.
Im glad torts is finally getting to this breaking point, whether he actually does it is another question...

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Old
12-19-2009, 08:22 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by nyrangersfan1416 View Post
Hopefully he's including himself in this pile of ****.

He lost me after Wednesday night's postgame. That was really infuriating when LB put him on the spot, and he had no answer for what he could do better as a coach.
What he said. Worse culprit is hiding in the mirror. I've yet to see this guy point the finger at himself.

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Old
12-19-2009, 08:28 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
The culture of entitlement begins at the top with Jimmy Dolan. If you read any of the number of articles that have been posted recently, you'll see that he's pretty obviously a poor little rich kid who's desperate to separate himself from his father's legacy.

Why? Because he obviously deserves one of his own.

I daresay Glen Sather's arrogance may also suggest a sense of entitlement. After all, he has four Cups, and if he had the Rangers money, he'd never miss the playoffs.
I thought you were going in the direction...the culture of entitlement begins at the top judging how the GM and under-perform and underwhelm for 10 years in a row with zero, nada, no accountability. He's living off hitting the 80's Oilers lottery just like Little Lord Fontelroy Dolan won the lucky sperm lottery.

The Baffoon from Banf-f-f bought and paid for life-time employment by delivering the Cup in 94' That's why he has no pressure or worries.

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Old
12-19-2009, 08:37 AM
  #33
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And the next mention of Captain Valium will be the first. I think I'll call him Captain Teflon from now on.

oops. Make that the 2nd.

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Old
12-19-2009, 08:46 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
When we had guys like Ortmeyer, Strudwick, Betts, Hollweg, Ward, Moore, Prucha, etc. our attitude was great. Complete "team" mentality. Not the case with the bums we've been icing these past few yrs. I don't care if they don't have as much talent, they played their guts out and bleed Blue. Thats what matters most, you can build a winner from that. Purge the team.
Agreed. Even Jagr bought into it.

And what the hell happened to Drury, once referred to as Captain USA (and Captain Clutch)? Its just like he tries to break even on the scoreboard on his shifts and thats not what you are paid 7-8 mill USD to do.

I sometimes wondered that he is the cancer on this team too, he seems to care zip no matter what happens.

With Kotalik and redden out (well deserved) we actually have a cap of 45 mill USD. Put Drury and Rozy on the bench too (as deserved), and we have an effective cap of 32 mill USD to "work" with, the lowest in the NHL

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Old
12-19-2009, 08:50 AM
  #35
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About 20 games too late on his "accountability" proclamations.

Lets hope this last bite isn't followed by some pathetic barks followed by the inevitable whimper when a playoff spot may be on the line.

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Old
12-19-2009, 09:11 AM
  #36
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Tortorella proves "the fish stinks from the head".

Just because Sather is leaning on him hard doesn't mean he should pass his pissy attitude to the players. Absorb it, John, and instead of passing on to the players making them hate you even more, maybe you should look within?

Players pushed to get Renney out and Tortorella in, and even with that mandate he's still unable to win over his team. Tortorella is a desperate man right now. He knows with each day he is getting closer to never coaching in the NHL again.

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Old
12-19-2009, 09:13 AM
  #37
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Torts has done some pretty good coaching. I don't know what you all are seeing that makes him look so bad. Is it because hasn't been benching our top players/most expensive contracts?

In my mind he's been good. He has:

1) Provided a defensive framework. Remember about 10-12 games ago? Before then the Rangers were completely directionless in their own zone. They scrambled and chased the puck everywhere like sheep after a feeding truck. He got them to play some sort of zone coverage which has greatly helped. Now - the players have a basic structure. If they can't figure out this rudimentary system then the players are at fault. If they can't play zone d they don't belong in the NHL.

2) Allowed the offense to create and completely turned around the powerplay, the biggest flaw from last season. Guys can't find the net, its not his coaching. The system is crash the net and shoot. Torts isn't telling Higgins to shoot high or Rozy to look for Jagr instead of shooting. He's not telling them to play a perimeter game. The x's and o's are pointing to the middle of the ice.

3) Given the top players time to break out. He's tried to get Drury and the other secondary scorers off the schneid. The team needs them, and as we point out all the time, they're not going anywhere, with their no-movement clauses and whatnot. If they don't break out (they need playing time to do this) we are heading for a top pick in the draft, anyway, so give them all the chance to do it.

The passion: He can't make it happen. THe players have to bring it. When they don't he has to sit people and talk to the GM. He's done that. Let's see what happens now.

Lastly: the critique about line shuffling has been pretty much the only critique that I think is justified so far. He needs to stick with lines at least for a full game to see them work together. However, he may have a better eye for these things than I do so I will give him the benefit of the doubt on this.

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Old
12-19-2009, 09:36 AM
  #38
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This was actually from Dan Martin's article, not Larry Brooks.

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Old
12-19-2009, 09:50 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by abev View Post
He knows with each day he is getting closer to never coaching in the NHL again.
Really? Barry Melrose was plucked out of a TV studio after thirteen years and he didn't have the benefit of a Stanley Cup on his resume.

That big piece of hardware on his resume ensures he'll get a job somewhere should he and the Rangers part ways.

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12-19-2009, 09:55 AM
  #40
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We are 34 games in. So far throughout those 34 contests our top five players in terms of salary:

Gaborik has been named first star in 4 games, second star 5 times, third star 5 times.

Lundqvist has been first star 5 times, second star 5 times.

Drury has not been named as a first, second or third star in any games so far.

Redden has been named third star one time.

Rozsival has not been named as a first, second or third star in any games so far.

To be honest it's harder for a defenseman to get these recognitions than forwards or goalies (it should be easier for Drury though)--even so the $18.5 mil dollars invested in cap space for the last three (with so far only one mention)--to make a difference on the ice is not money well spent.

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Old
12-19-2009, 10:39 AM
  #41
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I still don't get what people mean by Tortorella "holding himself accountable".

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Old
12-19-2009, 10:53 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
The Baffoon from Banf-f-f bought and paid for life-time employment by delivering the Cup in 94' That's why he has no pressure or worries.
Um, Sather was not the GM in 94.

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Old
12-19-2009, 10:54 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I still don't get what people mean by Tortorella "holding himself accountable".
Kinda silly, no? It's Sather's responsibility to hold Torts accountable. Tortorella is supposed to hold the players accountable (and perhaps ***** about the management to his wife). Dolan should, in a perfect world, hold Sather accountable.

The media and the fans should hold anyone and everyone accountable.

Anyway, we know from what we've seen on the ice that Torts has redone his strategies and line combos repeatedly. At least that a sign that he's thinking and reacting, unlike some ex-coaches that stuck with the same line for months even after it was painfully obvious that each time they rolled out it was the proverbial flogging the dead horse.


Last edited by BobSantos: 12-19-2009 at 10:59 AM.
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Old
12-19-2009, 10:57 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by The Thomas J. View Post
Torts Mentioned he doesn't care how much you make or what Draft pick you were. I wonder what draft pick he was reffering to. Dubinsky maybe?
Redden was drafted 2nd overall...

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Old
12-19-2009, 11:04 AM
  #45
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I think Torts has been as advertised. In the first 8 games, we were getting good offensive from our D-men, and balanced scoring up front.

Since then, his puck control and pressure system has been rendered useless when other teams forecheck hard and pressure our D. The book got out on how to play us pretty quickly. It's not a system that our team has the skillset to play.

There's combustible, and then there's Torts. Dude is an atomic bomb with a salt and pepper mustache. I feel like he has kept himself in check for the most part, although his a-holeness sometimes can poison the team's culture for the worse.

Give the man credit, he has no problem stirring the pot and creating a s**tstorm to get his players going.

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Old
12-19-2009, 11:21 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by nyrangersfan1416 View Post

Redden's worst hockey has come since he's returned from injury. Someone else mentioned it in another thread, but how can you blame Redden for feeling "singled out"?
responsibility of that contract...

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Old
12-19-2009, 11:23 AM
  #47
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Isn't this what a majority of people wanted to hear? I believe him. He looks annoyed, and who could blame him. There is a player (or group of players) trying to undermine two coaches in a row. I thought it was Gomez too, but apparently not.
Exactly. He's doing it for the 'faaaaaans', and they're eating it up. Big talk, but lets see how it plays out and revisit this eventually.

-Bad economy
-Fans getting fed up watching high priced players underachieving
-STH having a tough time selling their tix.
-Talk of GM being canned

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Old
12-19-2009, 11:41 AM
  #48
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Torts Mentioned he doesn't care how much you make or what Draft pick you were. I wonder what draft pick he was reffering to.
Henrik going 205th?


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Old
12-19-2009, 12:06 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I still don't get what people mean by Tortorella "holding himself accountable".
Does he hold himself accountable? I know it cant be easy coaching a professional team with all the personalities and politics but I get the sense Torts does know hockey, and has a good idea about what a team needs to do to win... yet this team , for the most part, has refused to do some of those things on any kind of regular basis.

I jumped out of my easy chair the other night when Rosi stepped into that Islander who bumped Lundqvist , and than took a bump on the nose and a little roughing ensued. Thats showed some grit and thats what Rosi should do everynight, since he just showed us he has it in him when INSPIRED to do so....

Benching Redden is better than the non-factor of switching the backup goaltender around( sorry Valley no offense)

Benching Chris Drury would be pretty ballsy, and maybe Chris does or doesnt deserve it. He hasnt played very well and the team as a whole looks flat. Its hard to gauge whats going on with Drury because he is so dead pan monochromatic in those interviews, as well as his general expressions on ice. His post games are guess what, FLAT. Is he setting the wrong tone for the team. These guys are mostly pretty young and impressionable.

Torts has a difficult job. He probably should just do what he says. If you suck your going to sit so someone else can have your icetime.

Unfortunately most of this team has played flat, so where do you start? Its so easy to play cybercoach after frustrating losses on here. We all get a little carried away sometimes and forget these guys are real people. If it was my call I would have benched Chris by now. But Im not aware of all the political turmoil that may create within the organization.

I'd go as far as debating removing the C, and let this team re-find it's own captain. Fresh start

Is Torts accountable in these ways? Would these ideas be too extream outside of HF?

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Old
12-19-2009, 12:10 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
Little Lord Fontelroy Dolan won the lucky sperm lottery.
I'm stealing that, just so you know.

Sometimes I wonder if Sather is and Isaiah Thomas was about Jimmy Dolan trying to show the world how right he was in hiring them. He's going to hold them and hold them and hold them, hoping to win a championship just so he can say, "See? I TOLD you so!!!"

Oh well. That's what you get when you win the lucky sperm lottery.

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