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Torts: "Attitude stinks around here"

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Old
12-19-2009, 11:19 AM
  #51
Levitate
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
Is Torts accountable in these ways? Would these ideas be too extream outside of HF?
But...that doesn't seem to have to do with holding himself accountable. Again, what does that even mean. Going into every interview and giving a rundown of "well I should have done this better!" or something?

I get the feeling that people just want Tortorella to say "hey the team sucks and it's my fault" but that's still a pretty bad thing for a coach to say. Talk about not only putting the team down but putting yourself in a bad position with players and management

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12-19-2009, 11:30 AM
  #52
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Well you're the head coach right? You don't actually play the game on the ice but you do decide who gets that icetime and I think he can be held accountable for this....

I do think he can be held somewhat accountable for players NOT driving the net and NOT sending clear messages not to F with Lundqvist or Gabby or whoever.

If Lundqvist gets run and the D man is just standing there with his thumb up his ass like "I dont see a problem here" Maybe, Torts should sit that guy after he berates him in front of the team for not defending his teammate.

This team has some good pieces, but they play soft. They didnt play soft in the 2nd Islander game. So they know HOW to add that grit into the equation, but how do they get them to just BE THAT KIND OF TEAM. By default.

A lot of young guys on this team. They need to be mentored properly.

Rosi and Redden are essentially the mentors for the rest of our incredibly young D corps...

You know what I'm saying? This is where the coach really DOES need to be accountable of his players and how they learn from each other and get better, or... worse for the experience

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Old
12-19-2009, 11:34 AM
  #53
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Hey and for all that debate, just go over to the Flyers board and you can experience their disappointment with Pronger thus far. That he's not playing like "PRONGER"

I would have liked to have a "pronger like" vet to mentor these guys on some BIG impactful tough play, as Im sure the Philly fans were hoping for their team, and they dont seem to be getting it....so who knows....

Coaching change in Philly, weird rumors from the locker room... they have their own problems

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12-19-2009, 11:36 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by BleedsBlueforNYR View Post
Original link: http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/ranger...tgG7HyMD7ZtyjL

I didn't see this posted previously so I apologize if this was already discussed.

For all of you who have been blasting Torts about his double standard on accountability, perhaps you spoke too soon? Seems like he's had it with some of the slackers on the team, and it doesn't quite sound like the same old Torts rhetoric.

The article also mentions how he and Sather had been "talking" about the issue. Worthwhile read if you are angry about the lack of accountability with the older guys or just like hearing Torts mad.

Thoughts?
Brooks didn't write that article

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Old
12-19-2009, 11:41 AM
  #55
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Brooks didn't write that article
Hahah, I was tired and was scanning the NYPost before bed. I just assumed any article involving Torts (knowing Brooksies love-hate affair with him) was written by none other than Larry Brooks.

Plus, there's no Dan Martin prefix on HF

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Old
12-19-2009, 11:48 AM
  #56
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Chariot, I'm not saying that he can't be held accountable for it, I'm saying how does he hold himself accountable?

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12-19-2009, 12:07 PM
  #57
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This concept of accountability in this instance is a farce and a fallacy. How can anyone on the team be held accountable when the guy at the top, the one responsible for everyone of the team's major flaws, is sinking the standard to never-before-seen depths?

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Old
12-19-2009, 12:12 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
This concept of accountability in this instance is a farce and a fallacy. How can anyone on the team be held accountable when the guy at the top, the one responsible for everyone of the team's major flaws, is sinking the standard to never-before-seen depths?
Who Sather? Sather doesnt get enough ice time to take the blame for the lack of effort these guys have been putting up.

The roster could be better sure, but the guys HERE NOW need to play harder.

As clearly seen in the 2nd Islander game

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Old
12-19-2009, 12:13 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
Who Sather? Sather doesnt get enough ice time to take the blame for the lack of effort these guys have been putting up.

The roster could be better sure, but the guys HERE NOW need to play harder.

As clearly seen in the 2nd Islander game
You mean the game where the Rangers were outplayed 5 on 5 virtually the entire game and were, once again, saved by the play of Lundqvist?

It doesn't matter how hard bad players play. The effort won't change the fact that they aren't very good.

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Old
12-19-2009, 12:51 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
You mean the game where the Rangers were outplayed 5 on 5 virtually the entire game and were, once again, saved by the play of Lundqvist?

It doesn't matter how hard bad players play. The effort won't change the fact that they aren't very good.
I have to agree. Far too many people have sighted that 2nd Islander game as some sort of turning point when, in reality, they were outplayed for virtually the entire game. Lundqvist rescued this team again, and Roloson played like complete ****.

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12-19-2009, 12:58 PM
  #61
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I don't care what you say, the effort was better and that is a step in the right direction.

Does anyone think "problem over"? I don't think so.

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Old
12-19-2009, 01:01 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Special View Post
I don't care what you say, the effort was better and that is a step in the right direction.

Does anyone think "problem over"? I don't think so.
Honestly, could the effort be any worse than the 1st game of the home and home?

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Old
12-19-2009, 01:30 PM
  #63
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Ya i like that attitude by Torts. Drury starting on the fourth line, Redden sitting it looks like some accountability is in action, hopefully it continues.

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Old
12-19-2009, 02:06 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
It doesn't matter how hard bad players play. The effort won't change the fact that they aren't very good.
Hogwash... effort is a HUGE part of this game. All these guys made it to the NHL. They are all good by that standard. They could use more skill, I agree, but effort is where its at.....

This team is simply guilty of a bad attitude and mailing in shifts turns into mailing in games turns into a losing streak.

Not saying they are destined to drink from the chalice but they are a better team when they put in the effort

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12-19-2009, 02:39 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
Hogwash... effort is a HUGE part of this game. All these guys made it to the NHL. They are all good by that standard. They could use more skill, I agree, but effort is where its at.....

This team is simply guilty of a bad attitude and mailing in shifts turns into mailing in games turns into a losing streak.

Not saying they are destined to drink from the chalice but they are a better team when they put in the effort
Better than what?

All of these guys made it to the NHL playing certain roles. Most of the players on the team are playing roles they were never meant to play, which is usually the first sign of a poorly constructed team that has little hope of winning anything meaningful.

Aaron Voros tries hard every single time he plays. Doesn't change the fact that he's a terrible player who doesn't belong in the league. Similarly, it doesn't matter how hard Chris Higgins plays, because chances are he isn't going to score without a playmaker to set him up. Just look at Lisin in today's game. He played hard. What did it get him?

Of course effort matters. Obviously, players play better when they play harder. But effort isn't enough, you need skill and talent. Who would you rather have? A lazy Pavel Bure, or a hard working Jed Ortmeyer?

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Old
12-19-2009, 02:57 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
responsibility of that contract...
The problem with Redden is not because he signed a big contract, but what the contract represented. He was supposed to be the centerpiece of the defense, providing stability, playing a lot of minutes in all situations and playing the point on the powerplay.

I don't blame Redden for signing on the dotted line (even if he knew he couldn't live up the expectations of the contract). That blame is reserved for the people who wrote the contract in the first place. They didn't sign a guy who just had a career year (Drury) or a guy who had a breakout year (Voros, Rissmiller), they signed a player who had been declining for several years and yet expected him to somehow regain all the things he had lost.

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Old
12-19-2009, 03:28 PM
  #67
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Um, Sather was not the GM in 94.
Thanks for clearing that up Dude.

Do the names Messier, Graves (RFA offer sheet), Tikannen, Beukaboom, Anderson, Lowe sound familiar.


Last edited by HoosierDaddy: 12-19-2009 at 03:38 PM. Reason: I need to do to anger mgmt just like Aves. Angry at the Rangers or over a decade.
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Old
12-19-2009, 03:35 PM
  #68
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I'm stealing that, just so you know.

Sometimes I wonder if Sather is and Isaiah Thomas was about Jimmy Dolan trying to show the world how right he was in hiring them. He's going to hold them and hold them and hold them, hoping to win a championship just so he can say, "See? I TOLD you so!!!"

Oh well. That's what you get when you win the lucky sperm lottery.
Haha, knock yourself out. I can't take full credit for the sperm part, but LLF I've used on more than one occasion. It just galls me that as long as the tkts are "sold" that the folks at Cablevision are happy. We saw all we need with his handling of Thomas fiasco.

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Old
12-19-2009, 04:19 PM
  #69
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underachieved in the 2007 playoffs
?? They played very well and were defeated by a more talented team that was tops in the conference. They even outplayed that team but simply couldn't overcome the offensive talent depth and Lundqvist couldn't out duel Miller. But I don't see how that constitutes underachieving. That was by far the best incarnation of the Rangers in years. The only version that was actually a pretty good team.

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Old
12-19-2009, 10:21 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
Thanks for clearing that up Dude.

Do the names Messier, Graves (RFA offer sheet), Tikannen, Beukaboom, Anderson, Lowe sound familiar.
I guess Leetch, Richter, Zubov and Kovalev were healthy scratches in your alternate universe.

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Old
12-20-2009, 01:03 PM
  #71
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When we had guys like Ortmeyer, Strudwick, Betts, Hollweg, Ward, Moore, Prucha, etc. our attitude was great. Complete "team" mentality. Not the case with the bums we've been icing these past few yrs. I don't care if they don't have as much talent, they played their guts out and bleed Blue. Thats what matters most, you can build a winner from that. Purge the team.
That group that you loved won absolutely nothing and never came close. Betts served a function. Hollweg and Moore served at least minor functions at times. The rest were garbage. I'll take talent over what color you think they bleed.

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12-20-2009, 01:06 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
Who Sather? Sather doesnt get enough ice time to take the blame for the lack of effort these guys have been putting up.

The roster could be better sure, but the guys HERE NOW need to play harder.

As clearly seen in the 2nd Islander game
It's easy to look like you're playing hard when you're playing a garbage team. Playing hard is nice. I'd rather have guys that can score goals, hit, win physical battles and are smart, not just look like they are playing hard.

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Old
12-20-2009, 01:12 PM
  #73
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That group that you loved won absolutely nothing and never came close. Betts served a function. Hollweg and Moore served at least minor functions at times. The rest were garbage. I'll take talent over what color you think they bleed.
Thank god you aren't the GM then. The attitude you're spouting is the same one that saw the Rangers sign every talented, heartless bum on the market in the 90's. It takes a combination of talent, heart and grit to win a Cup. Discounting heart and grit leaves you on the outside looking in more often than not. True, heart and grit can only take a team so far without talent, but the opposite also holds true.

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Old
12-20-2009, 01:31 PM
  #74
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That group that you loved won absolutely nothing and never came close. Betts served a function. Hollweg and Moore served at least minor functions at times. The rest were garbage. I'll take talent over what color you think they bleed.
While role players are important, I agree to some extent.

It's quite bothersome that some posters obsess over the departure of Betts, Mara, Orr, Hollweg, etc. moreso than the group of Jagr, Straka, Nylander, and Shanahan. The latter group had much more of an impact on turning this team around post-lockout than the former.

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Old
12-20-2009, 01:41 PM
  #75
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and look for a decent defensemen while you're at it, everybody's overrated back there too. yes, even staal for you #18 buttlovers.
Staal isn't "decent?" Yeah, you're right, he looked terrible shutting down OV last playoffs. Oh, wait. He actually looked huge and did a great job. MDZ isn't "decent" either? Girardi? I'd almost get frustrated by this if it weren't so hilarious.

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