If the Canucks were moving ex-players into lower level positions and then moving them up in the organization as they showed ability then there would be no complaint. For example, Gradin started as overseas and seemingly part time scout. As he did well he became more central to the scouting system. No one has a problem with that.
apparently you do have a problem with that!
first of all, you will get no argument from me about Smyl and Delorme... but that was all done before Gillis got here... he didn't hire them straight from their playing career and put them into key roles... in fact one of the first things he did was take them out of key roles.
secondly, what you said above has me completely confused! You've been arguing extensively in this thread about Babych's hiring - but his hiring by Gillis is exactly like you described above - he was not hired in a key position. He is not a coach, or assistant coach, or head scout or even a regular scout. He's not a top trainer, or in-charge of player development... and he's not even being put into a key management role like Yzerman, Nieuwendyk or Hull were right out of their careers... he is starting as much at the bottom as possible here - he's got a minor role in player development working under Gagner, and dealing specifically with prospect dmen in the system.
What possible job could he have gotten with this team that is lower key than that?
If he does well in that position, he should earn the right to move up - whether that's as an assistant coach in Manitoba or a full time trainer in Vancouver.
Gillis basically has done exactly what you're suggesting above - bringing in the guy in a low key position and seeing how he pans out, and yet you've been harping about this signing since it happened, despite saying "there would be no complaint"?
And this is the ONLY signing that Gillis has made that has a former Canuck with more than 1 season's experience with the organization. THE ONLY ONE!! out of many other positions he's filled.... and this - hiring one former Canuck in about the most minor off-ice position you can find, is somehow deserving of the criticism you've laid out here?
maybe I read the wrong article here, and Babych just got hired as the team's top player development coach? or maybe being hired as a part-time employee in player development, assigned to mentor a couple players is a top level position with the team now?
or maybe you're just making too big a deal out of something that just isn't there?
I've been saying this for a while, but I'd like to see Vladimir Krutov replace Roger Takahashi.
"You'll never get anywhere eating Schneider's. It's all about Grimm's. If you want to succeed, Grimm's is the way to go, but don't eat more than ten a day or you'll end up like Tkachuk."
Orcatown, Babych has been working with some high-level prospects in AAA at the North Shore Winter Club for some time. Its not like he completely lacks experience coaching or developing, quite the opposite really.
I've seen him first hand for years and he is good at getting the most out of young players. It remains to be seen if he can excel at an NHL level, but its not like we're talking about Ron "Big Chief" Delorme here. Dave actually has some credentials and excellent references. Patrick Weircoch is one player that played for Babych for two years at the club, and look at him now. Almost a PPG as a defenseman in college hockey. As his responsibilities grow I think so will his expertise. The guy is really good with young prospects.
Last edited by John Belushi: 12-10-2009 at 07:43 PM.
Ben Kuzma report on the positions for Dave Babych and Glen Hanlon with their bios.
Welcome back Carrot Top.
Quote:
The Vancouver Canucks have added former franchise defenceman Dave Babych and goaltender Glen Hanlon to their hockey operations staff. Babych will serve as a player development consultant, while Hanlon will work as a goaltending scout.
Babych was my favorite Canuck for quite a few years. I remember going to my one and only game in Vancouver when I was about 8, against San Jose. I was right behind the players bench, and me being all of about 4' tall at the time, couldn't see much at the other end of the ice. So I started yelling at Babych to sit down so I could see. He turned around and had a bit of a laugh, and then sat down. Probably my best hockey memory as a little guy. I could care less if the guy has no qualifications, the 'stache is back
Hanlon has had a decent after-hockey career working in hockey circles. Assistant coach, head coach, scout, etc. At least he has a somewhat decent pro resume to fall back on, whereas someone like Delorme--to my knowledge--did not, apart from the fact that he's a die hard Canuck.
Hanlon has had a decent after-hockey career working in hockey circles. Assistant coach, head coach, scout, etc. At least he has a somewhat decent pro resume to fall back on, whereas someone like Delorme--to my knowledge--did not, apart from the fact that he's a die hard Canuck.
No problem with Hanlon as a goaltending scout.
~Canucklehead~
And perhaps Head Coach in Waiting?
Actually if Arneil is hired as an NHL Head Coach in future (and there has reportedly been some interest) then Hanlon might be a good fit as coach of the Moose.
Delorme is so good all he has to do to evaluate a player is watch him practise. And then roll the dice.
"Glen will be assisting on multiple levels, including our amateur scouts with respect to the draft,” Canuck assistant GM Laurence Gilman explained Sunday. “He'll be helping Stan Smyl with respect to our pursuit of unrestricted college players and, in addition, he'll be assisting our pro scouting department with respect to looking at goaltenders league-wide.
Hanlon and Dave Babych, added earlier this month in a player development capacity, are in newly created positions. According to Gilman, Hanlon will be working strictly as a scout and not aiding goaltending guru Ian Clark on the ice.
What qualifications for this job does Bobby Orr have other than being a good hockey player?
Bobby Orr a good hockey player ??? Blasphemy. Good is an insult to the great Bobby Orr who was, in my opinion, the best player ever to have laced them up.
( but I get your point anyway - not all players, good or great, make decent coaches - Hello Mr. Gretzky )
This makes total sense. Again, no downside for the Canucks. Like I said before, I don't know how you can scout goalies if you've never been one yourself. Plus in Hanlon's case, he's done a few other things so he gives the organization some added versatility.
Yeah, what use would the Canucks have for an ex-head coach, assistant coach, goaltending coach with extensive experience in the NHL and AHL already.
What a bunch of idiots, hiring a guy with 20 years of administrative experience in pro hockey. Hanlon's family even thinks he sucks.
And Hanlon flopped in all those positions. When they dumped him in Washington the team finally took off.
He flamed out in Finland as well.
If Hanlon could get a coaching job he would have taken it. Couldn't and so took what he could. Unemployed so the Canucks throw him a bone.
No way Hanlon gets this gig without having direct connections to the club.
It's the team looking after their own. And I guess many would say who cares.
The trouble here is that the Canucks have done this for years and it has hurt the team. I've felt for a long time that the Canucks should change the culture of cronyism and insist on getting the best person - not the best connected. This team needs new perspectives, not just a recycle of old cronies. That's what Gillis promised, but i don't see it. It is the same old hiring practices the team has always done.
But why should they -there ares so many fans that will go to the games no matter what has been served up over the years.. There is very little demand for excellence in spite of all the slogans and other crap. If the fans are willing to put up with this, and believe anything they are told, why not use the situation as big piggy bank for the alumni.
The trouble here is that the Canucks have done this for years and it has hurt the team. I've felt for a long time that the Canucks should change the culture of cronyism and insist on getting the best person - not the best connected. This team needs new perspectives, not just a recycle of old cronies. That's what Gillis promised, but i don't see it. It is the same old hiring practices the team has always done.
Sure they've hired several ex-Canucks, but Gillis has also hired guys with little to no connection to the Canucks like Dave Gagner, Inge Hammarstrom, Scott Mellanby, and Dan Palango
