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Torts not impressed by Reds,indicates changes on D looming

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Old
12-21-2009, 02:07 PM
  #76
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The best thing that could happen right now is for Redden's play to resemble someone with the type of contract he has...

The frustrating thing about Rozi is that when he plays well he is REALLY good.

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12-21-2009, 02:11 PM
  #77
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Send him down. Hopefully he will get tired of the not so glorious live as an ahl:er. I give him two or three years in the minors and then he will get tired of that life and retire. Hopefully earlier. He HAS to take some responsibility for signing that contract. Näslund was classy. I wonder if Redden is?

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12-21-2009, 02:17 PM
  #78
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Why does everyone want these guys to fail so bad? Best thing for us would be Redden finds his game and starts earning half his cash. Will he ever be worth 6.5 million? Doubt it but lets atleast get something back out of this investment.

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12-21-2009, 02:17 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
I don't understand those two years at $3.4m. Why does the cap hit change just there? I see it with all the proposed buyouts, and I just don't understand the finer details. Does anyone know why it's like that instead of just the actual payment like the other 6 years?
Buyouts are calculated by the following:

1) Take 2/3rds of the players remaining salary (actual money, not cap hit...iirc it's 1/3rd if the player is under 26) and divide it by twice the years remaining.

2) This number is then increased or reduced by the difference in yearly salary vs. yearly cap hit.

Redden has 4 years and @ 6.5, 6.5, 5 and 5 million respectively. Total is 23 million.

2/3rds of 23 million is $15,333,333
Divide by 8 (twice the length of the contract) and you get $1,916,667

Then you have to apply the difference between original cap hit (6.5 mil) and the player's actual salary for the given year as follows:

Year 1: $1,916,667 (1,916,667 + original cap hit of 6.5 mil - original salary of 6.5 mil)
Year 2: $1,916,667 (1,916,667 + original cap hit of 6.5 mil - original salary of 6.5 mil)
Year 3: $3,416,667 (1,916,667 + original cap hit of 6.5 mil - original salary of 5 mil)
Year 4: $3,416,667 (1,916,667 + original cap hit of 6.5 mil - original salary of 5 mil)
Year 5: $1,916,667 (1,916,667 + original cap hit of 0 mil - original salary of 0 mil)
Year 6: $1,916,667 (1,916,667 + original cap hit of 0 mil - original salary of 0 mil)
Year 7: $1,916,667 (1,916,667 + original cap hit of 0 mil - original salary of 0 mil)
Year 8: $1,916,667 (1,916,667 + original cap hit of 0 mil - original salary of 0 mil)

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12-21-2009, 02:22 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Why does everyone want these guys to fail so bad? Best thing for us would be Redden finds his game and starts earning half his cash. Will he ever be worth 6.5 million? Doubt it but lets atleast get something back out of this investment.
Less of a chance he all of a sudden regains the skill he was known for than failing and either getting BO or buried in HFD.

Obviously we would like him to play up to his contract but I doubt it will ever happen. That's both Sathers fault as well as Redden himself for not putting in the effort at least.

Even if he doesn't have the skills he used to, he should be putting in 110% effort each night. I wouldn't mind him not having good offensive ability (what he was signed for) if he could at least be a shutdown defenseman similar to how Lidstrom plays.

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12-21-2009, 02:23 PM
  #81
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As much as I hate Redden, this is dumb. One last chance? I mean, please, by all means show him the door to the AHL and open up a $6.5 million window to spend, but at least treat the other players the same. Redden had been the best defensive defenseman and most solid we had all year. One little blunder, he gets the boot, gets made a fool of. Just like Gilroy.

Tortorella has some balls man. He really does.

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12-21-2009, 02:26 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
As much as I hate Redden, this is dumb. One last chance? I mean, please, by all means show him the door to the AHL and open up a $6.5 million window to spend, but at least treat the other players the same. Redden had been the best defensive defenseman and most solid we had all year. One little blunder, he gets the boot, gets made a fool of. Just like Gilroy.

Tortorella has some balls man. He really does.
Redden is not a defensive defenseman and the Rangers didn't pay him 6.5mil a year to be one. He has very little room for error. If the Rangers don't start getting on a roll, he'll be in the AHL before the deadline.

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12-21-2009, 02:31 PM
  #83
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Redden is not a defensive defenseman and the Rangers didn't pay him 6.5mil a year to be one. He has very little room for error. If the Rangers don't start getting on a roll, he'll be in the AHL before the deadline.
That is the Rangers fault. The Rangers apparently don't pay him for much of anything, considering how they're treating him.

As I said, by all means send him to the AHL, he is not worthy of his contract and never will be. If you know me at all you know I've always bashed Redden.

Just treat the other players the same. Not just Kotalik. Not just Redden.

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12-21-2009, 02:39 PM
  #84
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Redden is paid $6.5 million. He´s being a big part in that the Rangers cannot improve.

If he was paid 2$ million he wouldn´t be blocking the rangers cap-wise.

In a cap controlled league the players need to take responsibility to the contracts they sign. If they aren´t, they are making their teams worse, not better... They need to be prepared to be bashed and booed by fans if they are eating a large chunk of the cap and only playing like an "ok" player.

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12-21-2009, 02:45 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
As much as I hate Redden, this is dumb. One last chance? I mean, please, by all means show him the door to the AHL and open up a $6.5 million window to spend, but at least treat the other players the same. Redden had been the best defensive defenseman and most solid we had all year. One little blunder, he gets the boot, gets made a fool of. Just like Gilroy.

Tortorella has some balls man. He really does.
Thats not really true. He was steady in the beginning of the season. Not really good and far from dynamic, but steady.

Hes been terrible for the last month or so, so while I think he may have been our best defenseman for the first month of the season, hes been surpassed by the likes of Staal, Girardi, and Del Zotto. Even Rozsival is trending upward.

Basically, its been far more than "one little blunder." His regression has been taking shape for the last few weeks.

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12-21-2009, 02:49 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Thats not really true. He was steady in the beginning of the season. Not really good and far from dynamic, but steady.

Hes been terrible for the last month or so, so while I think he may have been our best defenseman for the first month of the season, hes been surpassed by the likes of Staal, Girardi, and Del Zotto. Even Rozsival is trending upward.

Basically, its been far more than "one little blunder." His regression has been taking shape for the last few weeks.
He's been mediocre-to-bad since his injury, pretty much.

I'm all for waiving him if we can free up the salary and find a comparable defenseman to play on our blue-line for cheaper.

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Old
12-21-2009, 02:53 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
He's been mediocre-to-bad since his injury, pretty much.

I'm all for waiving him if we can free up the salary and find a comparable defenseman to play on our blue-line for cheaper.
Thats really the key. People can blindly scream about waiving him (and they have), but the truth is, from strictly a performance standpoint, I'd rather have Redden playing than Sanguinetti or Heikkenen.

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12-21-2009, 02:54 PM
  #88
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The thing that bothers me most is that Orpik turned down a much cheaper contract to stay with the Pens (which turned out to be a good move for him) and that basically forced Sather's hand a bit in the deal he gave Redden.

Torts preaches his accountability, and I think its good he expects more from his higher payed players. A good result is for Wade to step up his game now that he got his kick in the ass, though I still feel a better result would be him getting banished to the minors (cause its not me writing the paychecks) to free up room for someone else.

We are fortunate we are fans of a team that has deep pockets, they can afford to pay him in the minors and still spend to the cap. In a way, its the price we pay for tickets etc.. that few others have to pay to see a product that won't win the Cup for years. If it helps get us a piece that brings us closer to the cup, then I'm all for letting Wade ride the bus in Hartford for the next 4 years. His family certainly won't starve, and he would still be earning his money.

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12-21-2009, 02:57 PM
  #89
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I'd personally invest a part of the cap space created on a bona fide crease clearer/big hitting Dman than on a comparable player. We have enough soft and not physical Dmen.

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12-21-2009, 02:59 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Thats not really true. He was steady in the beginning of the season. Not really good and far from dynamic, but steady.

Hes been terrible for the last month or so, so while I think he may have been our best defenseman for the first month of the season, hes been surpassed by the likes of Staal, Girardi, and Del Zotto. Even Rozsival is trending upward.

Basically, its been far more than "one little blunder." His regression has been taking shape for the last few weeks.
Really don't think you can say that without mentioning the other defensemen, which is my point.

MDZ almost gets a free pass because he's a rookie (not saying that sarcastically, he's going to make mistakes), but Rozsival has been just as terrible as Redden before these past two games. Girardi has faltered and is never the same player game-in and game-out. It's also his choice to play two rookies on defense for 8 minutes, exposing the other four.

Where was Tortorella when Callahan wasn't scoring? Drury? Up until two games ago, nowhere. The fact of the matter is you can bench some forwards all you want but you're going to need to bench all of them for playing without results eventually, take maybe Gaborik aside. Fix the personnel, don't punish the personnel.

Punish the front office. We are light years beyond a team like Pittsburgh, Detroit, Washington with so much depth behind a star player (or more).

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12-21-2009, 03:00 PM
  #91
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I'd personally invest a part of the cap space created on a bona fide crease clearer/big hitting Dman than on a comparable player. We have enough soft and not physical Dmen.
I would too.

But who?

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12-21-2009, 03:02 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
Really don't think you can say that without mentioning the other defensemen, which is my point.

MDZ almost gets a free pass because he's a rookie (not saying that sarcastically, he's going to make mistakes), but Rozsival has been just as terrible as Redden before these past two games. Girardi has faltered and is never the same player game-in and game-out. It's also his choice to play two rookies on defense for 8 minutes, exposing the other four.

Where was Tortorella when Callahan wasn't scoring? Drury? Up until two games ago, nowhere. The fact of the matter is you can bench some forwards all you want but you're going to need to bench all of them for playing without results eventually, take maybe Gaborik aside. Fix the personnel, don't punish the personnel.

Punish the front office. We are light years beyond a team like Pittsburgh, Detroit, Washington with so much depth behind a star player (or more).
We'll see, but since the benching, Callahan, Drury, and Rozsival have all stepped up their games considerably.

Sometimes it only takes one instance to put the whole team on notice.

I think thats whats happening here.

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12-21-2009, 03:03 PM
  #93
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I would too.

But who?
I have no idea on who's available on the market. That player could also come via trade at the deadline or in the offseason. I regret big time we didn't sign Orpik two summers ago and even Komisarek (for a fair price) last summer.

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12-21-2009, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
We'll see, but since the benching, Callahan, Drury, and Rozsival have all stepped up their games considerably.

Sometimes it only takes one instance to put the whole team on notice.

I think thats whats happening here.
I think you're jumping the gun a little bit (and by all means, I applaud you, I want to believe the same).

Tortorella strikes me as a moron. He really does. His moves are often baffling and I really wish we had Renney back sometimes. A few instances of foul language and everyone thinks he's a changed man.

I doubt the whole team is playing better just because Redden and Kotalik were benched. Two game winning streak? Let's see it turn into five, six, seven. Even better: let's see some consistent play, and not just streaks.

When I see that I'll admit that the team has changed ways.

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12-21-2009, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
Really don't think you can say that without mentioning the other defensemen, which is my point.

MDZ almost gets a free pass because he's a rookie (not saying that sarcastically, he's going to make mistakes), but Rozsival has been just as terrible as Redden before these past two games. Girardi has faltered and is never the same player game-in and game-out. It's also his choice to play two rookies on defense for 8 minutes, exposing the other four.

Where was Tortorella when Callahan wasn't scoring? Drury? Up until two games ago, nowhere. The fact of the matter is you can bench some forwards all you want but you're going to need to bench all of them for playing without results eventually, take maybe Gaborik aside. Fix the personnel, don't punish the personnel.

Punish the front office. We are light years beyond a team like Pittsburgh, Detroit, Washington with so much depth behind a star player (or more).
If Redden and Kotalik worked even half as hard as Cally and Drury, they wouldn't be benched. Redden and Kotalik weren't benched because they weren't scoring, they were benched because of complacent and lackadaisical play.

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12-21-2009, 03:08 PM
  #96
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If Redden and Kotalik worked even half as hard as Cally and Drury, they wouldn't be benched. Redden and Kotalik weren't benched because they weren't scoring, they were benched because of complacent and lackadaisical play.
Doesn't matter. Effort isn't results. Put the puck in the net. Land a big hit. This isn't youth leagues, t-ball or pee wee hockey. You aren't graded on your effort, and at the end of the day, the statistics and the boxscore is all that matters.

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12-21-2009, 03:10 PM
  #97
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It wouldnt be your 20+ million dollars rotting in the minor leagues, so its a bit easier for you to try to present this as some sort of easy decision.
Dolan paid Marbury nearly $20 million last season to sit at home and then bought him out for about 90% of the remaining money on the contract

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12-21-2009, 03:10 PM
  #98
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I think you're jumping the gun a little bit (and by all means, I applaud you, I want to believe the same).

Tortorella strikes me as a moron. He really does. His moves are often baffling and I really wish we had Renney back sometimes. A few instances of foul language and everyone thinks he's a changed man.

I doubt the whole team is playing better just because Redden and Kotalik were benched. Two game winning streak? Let's see it turn into five, six, seven. Even better: let's see some consistent play, and not just streaks.

When I see that I'll admit that the team has changed ways.
Believe me. Im not a fan of Tortorella when it comes to most aspects. I think he has a very limited knowledge of the game.

But I think what he did with Redden is what he does best as a coach. He challenges people to be better...and when he challenges one of the highest paid players, it puts the rest of the roster on notice that they could very easily be next.

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12-21-2009, 03:11 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
Where was Tortorella when Callahan wasn't scoring? Drury? Up until two games ago, nowhere.
It's not an issue of scoring. It's an issue of effort.

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12-21-2009, 03:12 PM
  #100
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Dolan paid Marbury nearly $20 million last season to sit at home and then bought him out for about 90% of the remaining money on the contract
So what makes you think hes going to continue to throw money away? At some point it needs to stop.

Besides, Marbury was embarassing the Knicks in every single conceivable way. Redden, for all his faults, is not a piece of **** human being.

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