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Torts not impressed by Reds,indicates changes on D looming

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Old
12-21-2009, 03:13 PM
  #101
Jaromir Jagr
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
It's not an issue of scoring. It's an issue of effort.
Effort doesn't equal scoring and scoring wins games, not effort. You of all people are well aware of this.

Plenty of players play half-assed and score, and some of our players play 150% and can't score. Get people who CAN score. THEN worry about effort.

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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Believe me. Im not a fan of Tortorella when it comes to most aspects. I think he has a very limited knowledge of the game.

But I think what he did with Redden is what he does best as a coach. He challenges people to be better...and when he challenges one of the highest paid players, it puts the rest of the roster on notice that they could very easily be next.
That is what he does best. But Wade Redden won't dramatically improve and neither will the rest of the team. It's not like these players have a third gear they just aren't entering. This is all they have. That talk about 9-20 goal scorers in the beginning of the season was laughable then and even more laughable now.

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12-21-2009, 03:14 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
Doesn't matter. Effort isn't results. Put the puck in the net. Land a big hit. This isn't youth leagues, t-ball or pee wee hockey. You aren't graded on your effort, and at the end of the day, the statistics and the boxscore is all that matters.
I'm sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong.

You can't punish a player because they lack talent.

Higgins and Cally are 2 players who work their ***** off, but often lack the skill to make a fancy pass or finish. They should be benched because they are being relied upon to do something that they aren't even capable of? Baloney.

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12-21-2009, 03:16 PM
  #103
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How realistic is an amnesty buyout?
There is a better chance of Redden win the Norris this season.

These amnesty buyouts were a possibility if the salary cap dropped by 10% or more.

The cap isn't dropping by 10%. If the Canadian dollar stays right where it is right now(95 cents),the cap will go up by $1 million.

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"Now we're talking 94-95 [cents]," he said. "That impacts it. If it's at 95 cents and stays there for the rest of the year, the cap will go up a million or so. If the Canadian drops under 90 [cents], it may be down a half a million or so. All of these prognostications of 10 and 20 percent declines, that's not going to happen."
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/...=lebrun_pierre

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12-21-2009, 03:18 PM
  #104
Jaromir Jagr
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I'm sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong.

You can't punish a player because they lack talent.

Higgins and Cally are 2 players who work their ***** off, but often lack the skill to make a fancy pass or finish. They should be benched because they are being relied upon to do something that they aren't even capable of? Baloney.
Excuse me, I don't remember calling for punishments of players for lack of talent. I am proposing a change of personnel. Changing the players. Changing the GM. Because obviously, none of them will get us anywhere.

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12-21-2009, 03:18 PM
  #105
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That's what worries me about demoting him to Hartford. Rissmiller proved that you can only tolerate a poisonous attitude for so long. Using the 'Pack as dumping ground for the disgruntled and underachieving flies in the face of using it as a development tool for your prospects.
The Caps assigned Michael Nylander to Grand Rapids which is the Red Wings AHL team. The same place where the Rangers sent Rissmiller.

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12-21-2009, 03:20 PM
  #106
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So what makes you think hes going to continue to throw money away? At some point it needs to stop.

Besides, Marbury was embarassing the Knicks in every single conceivable way. Redden, for all his faults, is not a piece of **** human being.
So Dolan is going to draw the line with Redden.

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12-21-2009, 03:23 PM
  #107
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If Tortorella were an NHL tough guy, he'd be what you call a "spot picker". He only picks fights he knows he's not going to lose. Hence, benching Redden and preching accountability while blatantly ignoring players who are playing worse and giving less effort than Redden.

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12-21-2009, 03:24 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by SML View Post
If Tortorella were an NHL tough guy, he'd be what you call a "spot picker". He only picks fights he knows he's not going to lose. Hence, benching Redden and preching accountability while blatantly ignoring players who are playing worse and giving less effort than Redden.
Finally, someone speaks correctly.

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12-21-2009, 03:24 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
Players should have the ability to buy themselves out, with the team's approval, for no cap hit. That'd be nice.
They do.

If Redden refuses to report to Hartford,the Rangers are allowed to terminate his contract. It's in the CBA. The Devils terminated Shanahan's contract when he refused to report to Lowell. Redden can go negotiate another contract. Hey,Redden is getting paid $16 million of the $39 million in the first two seasons of the contract.

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12-21-2009, 03:25 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
Excuse me, I don't remember calling for punishments of players for lack of talent. I am proposing a change of personnel. Changing the players. Changing the GM. Because obviously, none of them will get us anywhere.
Earlier in the thread, you asked why Torts didn't bench Drury and Cally for not scoring, so that's where my argument is coming from.

I agree that there needs to be a GM and player personnel change, but we are stuck with what he have right now. Torts is in a sticky situation with all the underachieving vets, and he is trying to make do with what he has.

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12-21-2009, 03:26 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Earlier in the thread, you asked why Torts didn't bench Drury and Cally for not scoring, so that's where my argument is coming from.

I agree that there needs to be a GM and player personnel change, but we are stuck with what he have right now. Torts is in a sticky situation with all the underachieving vets, and he is trying to make do with what he has.
Perhaps you misunderstood my argument, and I don't mean to come off as rude. My argument about Callahan and Drury not being benched is because Kotalik and Redden were being benched for not playing well. My argument is that effort doesn't equal results and results win games. There were plenty of opportunities to bench other players on the team, and Tortorella didn't follow up.

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12-21-2009, 03:29 PM
  #112
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Rozsival's contract makes him movable this summer. 2 years remaining on the contract at a total of $7 million. Redden has $23 million remaining over the next 4 years.

Buying Redden out is not the answer. 8 years of "dead" cap space?

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12-21-2009, 03:32 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
Effort doesn't equal scoring and scoring wins games, not effort. You of all people are well aware of this.
But that's the difference with guys like Drury and Callahan and a guy like Kotalik they can still be productive and make a difference even if they're not scoring.

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12-21-2009, 03:34 PM
  #114
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Im just curious. How many games does he get? 2, 3, 10? When is enough enough?

Torts inherierited Redden & he clearly does not want him here. I have to wonder the position this puts Sather in with ownership.

its a no win situation for sather. You play reddening and he SUKS u look bad for giving him that contract.you send him to hartford and it looks even worse.

No way redden rebounds from. This. He is done. Its only a matter of when.
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12-21-2009, 03:34 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
But that's the difference with guys like Drury and Callahan and a guy like Kotalik they can still be productive and make a difference even if they're not scoring.
Perhaps. But again - that's a question of management. You shouldn't have players that aren't productive game in and game out, and they knew what they were getting with Kotalik. His 5-on-5 play is atrocious. And even though Drury and Callahan produce in other facets of the game besides scoring, scoring is what it all boils down to. Benching them wouldn't of been a bad idea. Results is what counts.

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12-21-2009, 03:38 PM
  #116
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can't slats just pull a Tiger or Isiah and have girl problems... that would make life so much easier.

Although I don't think Thomas was even fired for his harassment issues, it was the Marbury situation that woke up Dolan. Maybe seeing he has to pay Redden will wake him up again

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12-21-2009, 03:38 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
Perhaps you misunderstood my argument, and I don't mean to come off as rude. My argument about Callahan and Drury not being benched is because Kotalik and Redden were being benched for not playing well. My argument is that effort doesn't equal results and results win games. There were plenty of opportunities to bench other players on the team, and Tortorella didn't follow up.
And this is where I disagree with you. Blocking shots on the PK, winning battles in the corners, forechecking.... these are all examples of things that that take "effort" and DO have an impact on the outcome of the game.

For example, if Redden made the effort to take Hillen or Sim out of the play in Wednesday's game, instead of just standing around, perhaps the Islanders' first goal could have been prevented.

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12-21-2009, 03:40 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by SML View Post
If Tortorella were an NHL tough guy, he'd be what you call a "spot picker". He only picks fights he knows he's not going to lose. Hence, benching Redden and preching accountability while blatantly ignoring players who are playing worse and giving less effort than Redden.
omg. I could not disagree more. Torts benched V/L ajd has stood up to under preforming vets b4, and he has a cup to boot in this decade. Torts knows what he is doing.
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12-21-2009, 03:53 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
Perhaps. But again - that's a question of management. You shouldn't have players that aren't productive game in and game out, and they knew what they were getting with Kotalik. His 5-on-5 play is atrocious. And even though Drury and Callahan produce in other facets of the game besides scoring, scoring is what it all boils down to. Benching them wouldn't of been a bad idea. Results is what counts.
Bench them for who? Voros?

You have to do more than score to win hockey games. You have to defend too. Callahan and Drury do that night in and night out. If you are going to punish players for lack of offensive production, then you might as well bench the whole team except for Gabby and Hank.

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12-21-2009, 03:55 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
scoring is what it all boils down to.
What about keeping the other team from scoring?

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12-21-2009, 03:57 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
What about keeping the other team from scoring?
Has that been the problem lately? Or overall, throughout the season? No. Offense has been more of one. We have a top five goalie. Let's increase the offense.

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12-21-2009, 04:01 PM
  #122
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Has that been the problem lately? Or overall, throughout the season? No. Offense has been more of one. We have a top five goalie. Let's increase the offense.
It hasn't been a problem because guys like Drury and Callahan have been great on the PK. But doesn't that help win games?

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12-21-2009, 04:17 PM
  #123
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At what point would you have benched Callahan for not scoring more? Before he went on his scoring tear or during?

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12-21-2009, 04:33 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
It hasn't been a problem because guys like Drury and Callahan have been great on the PK. But doesn't that help win games?
Ultimately, yes. However, I have a hard time believing that other players couldn't play the PK while Drury and/or Callahan, Avery or any of the other forwards sat for not scoring.

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12-21-2009, 04:34 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by SML View Post
If Tortorella were an NHL tough guy, he'd be what you call a "spot picker". He only picks fights he knows he's not going to lose. Hence, benching Redden and preching accountability while blatantly ignoring players who are playing worse and giving less effort than Redden.
So you're saying Torts is scared of benching big bad Drury? Or that crazy animal Rozsival?

Are you sure we're talking about the same Tortorella? The Torts I know, isn't a spot picker. He just doesn't practice what he preaches.

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