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Old
12-21-2009, 01:51 AM
  #1
EbonyRaptor
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Chicago-Phoenix

With the Hawks and Coyotes both playing pretty well right now, the smart thing to do would probably be to do nothing ... if it ain't broke - as the old saying goes.

But that wouldn't be any fun for the Trade/Rumor message board, so I'll offer this trade proposal to tweak the Hawks and Yotes a bit.

To Phx: Versteeg and 2010 2nd
To Chi: Mueller and 2010 1st

Phoenix gets a young productive 2-way winger to help boost scoring.
Chicago gets a young struggling center with more potential than productivity.
Chicago gets a draft upgrade (from 2nd to 1st) to offset the difference in productivity.

With Bolland still out for another 6 to 8 weeks, we could really use a 2nd line center between Sharp and Hossa. Playing between two very good 2-way players might just be what Mueller needs to get his confidence back and become the player he could be. Once Bolland comes back, Mueller could be switched to wing on the 3rd line or possibly center the 4th line. He is an RFA at the end of the season, so the Hawks would at least have his rights to trade if his salary demands are too high or get draft picks. Versteeg will likely be gone after this year anyway, so it may be worth the chance to get a real center to play with Sharp and Hossa.

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Old
12-21-2009, 01:57 AM
  #2
Blackhawkswincup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EbonyRaptor View Post
With the Hawks and Coyotes both playing pretty well right now, the smart thing to do would probably be to do nothing ... if it ain't broke - as the old saying goes.

But that wouldn't be any fun for the Trade/Rumor message board, so I'll offer this trade proposal to tweak the Hawks and Yotes a bit.

To Phx: Versteeg and 2010 2nd
To Chi: Mueller and 2010 1st

Phoenix gets a young productive 2-way winger to help boost scoring.
Chicago gets a young struggling center with more potential than productivity.
Chicago gets a draft upgrade (from 2nd to 1st) to offset the difference in productivity.

With Bolland still out for another 6 to 8 weeks, we could really use a 2nd line center between Sharp and Hossa. Playing between two very good 2-way players might just be what Mueller needs to get his confidence back and become the player he could be. Once Bolland comes back, Mueller could be switched to wing on the 3rd line or possibly center the 4th line. He is an RFA at the end of the season, so the Hawks would at least have his rights to trade if his salary demands are too high or get draft picks. Versteeg will likely be gone after this year anyway, so it may be worth the chance to get a real center to play with Sharp and Hossa.
Mueller is awful this year. This trade would weaken us this season season and why would Coyotes give us a 1st in that deal?

Mueller is not good enough defensively to play on our 3rd line which will be either (Ladd , Madden and Byfuglien or Ladd , Madden and Brouwer)

And on the 4th line he wouldn't fit as that is full of our energy guys and pests.

Colin Fraser brings more value on the 4th line with his energy and defensive ability then Mueller would

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Old
12-21-2009, 02:04 AM
  #3
ted1971
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I wouldn't do this trade at all if I was Chicago. Verstegg has more value then that.

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Old
12-21-2009, 02:17 AM
  #4
EbonyRaptor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted1971 View Post
I wouldn't do this trade at all if I was Chicago. Verstegg has more value then that.
Maybe you're right. But the Mueller situation intigues me. His first year, he was the 3rd guy in the running for the Calder with Kane and Toews and put up very similiar stats as Versteeg did his rookie season last year. I find it hard to believe that Mueller has totally lost it to the point that his stats show. I've got to think it simply a loss of confidence and getting to play between Hossa and Sharp is as good a situation to restore his confidence as he will get. If he returns to the type of player he was two years ago, than our second line would be more productive than it is right now. the draft pick switch helps the trade value for Chicago because it essentially gets the Hawks a player 30+ positions higher.

Granted, it's a bit of a stretch - but like I said, Mueller intrigues me and I've got to think he will get back to being a pretty good player at some point.

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Old
12-21-2009, 06:40 AM
  #5
rt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EbonyRaptor View Post
Maybe you're right. But the Mueller situation intigues me. His first year, he was the 3rd guy in the running for the Calder with Kane and Toews and put up very similiar stats as Versteeg did his rookie season last year. I find it hard to believe that Mueller has totally lost it to the point that his stats show. I've got to think it simply a loss of confidence and getting to play between Hossa and Sharp is as good a situation to restore his confidence as he will get. If he returns to the type of player he was two years ago, than our second line would be more productive than it is right now. the draft pick switch helps the trade value for Chicago because it essentially gets the Hawks a player 30+ positions higher.

Granted, it's a bit of a stretch - but like I said, Mueller intrigues me and I've got to think he will get back to being a pretty good player at some point.
Versteeg would likely score quite a bit less in Phoenix, while Mueller would almost certainly score a ton more in Chicago.

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Old
12-21-2009, 09:24 AM
  #6
SLAPSHOT723
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Versteeg would likely score quite a bit less in Phoenix, while Mueller would almost certainly score a ton more in Chicago.
That's exactly what I was thinking, not sure if Phoenix would do that.

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Old
12-21-2009, 09:27 AM
  #7
Zim
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Versteeg would likely score quite a bit less in Phoenix, while Mueller would almost certainly score a ton more in Chicago.
Versteeg is playing with Madden and Byfuglien at even strength and neither of those guys are offensive power houses. He does however play on the 2nd PP unit with Kane and Sharp. I think the increased ice time (ES and PP) Versteeg would see in Phoenix would off set any reduced production you'd expect to see from moving to a slightly worse team.

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Old
12-21-2009, 09:32 AM
  #8
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Originally Posted by Zim View Post
Versteeg is playing with Madden and Byfuglien at even strength and neither of those guys are offensive power houses. He does however play on the 2nd PP unit with Kane and Sharp. I think the increased ice time (ES and PP) Versteeg would see in Phoenix would off set any reduced production you'd expect to see from moving to a slightly worse team.
He's played a reasonable amount of time with Sharp and Toews as well though.

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Old
12-21-2009, 10:28 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
He's played a reasonable amount of time with Sharp and Toews as well though.
True, he also spent a fair bit of time with Byfuglien and Sharp. I guess it would have been more accurate to say that he has recently been playing with Madden and Byfuglien.

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Old
12-21-2009, 01:16 PM
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EbonyRaptor
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Versteeg has 20 points (10g, 10a) and is +8 in 33 games played, with 2 of those goals coming shorthanded. He is basically on pace to score what he did last year with 25 goals and 50+ points. So, he is meeting his potential.

Mueller is way below his potential. If he were to match his rookie season, he would be about equal to Versteeg, but I think with his bigger size, he has a higher ceiling. The question is whether or not he will ever maximize his potential. Hence the draft pick swap to somewhat offset the risk that Chicago would take.

Like I said in the OP - probably both teams should just stick with what they have. But ... still ... it sure would be nice to have Mueller realize that potential in a Hawks sweater.

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Old
12-21-2009, 01:43 PM
  #11
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Versteeg would put up similiar numbers in Phoenix, I think.

In even strength, Versteeg plays better when he is NOT on a line with Kane or Toews.

When he has guys like Buf and Madden to get the puck him, he's a lot more effective than when he's paired with Kane.

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Old
12-21-2009, 04:49 PM
  #12
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I think the deal is kind of good for both teams. Mueller can play C or W....and the point on the PP. Should also save the Hawks some $$

Not sure about the picks....but I like the 2 players in the deal

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Old
12-21-2009, 05:56 PM
  #13
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It's an idea that's been thrown around quite a bit. The reason it comes up from time to time is that it makes some sense.

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Old
12-21-2009, 06:16 PM
  #14
EbonyRaptor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
It's an idea that's been thrown around quite a bit. The reason it comes up from time to time is that it makes some sense.
Oops - if this proposal has been made before, I apologize for starting a new post. I'm afraid I'm not adept enough to know how to search old posts for a Versteeg-Mueller proposal.

To respond to a couple posts questioning the draft picks being part of the proposal, I figure it like this:

Versteeg is more of a known quantity. Granted, the sample size is limited, but he has started his second year at about the same clip he showed in his rookie year. Plus, he is not exclusively an offensive player subject to scoring droughts, he is an effective penalty killer and is a good and fast skater with good playmaking skills. With Versteeg you pretty much will get what you expect.

Mueller is an unknown quantity. He showed what he is capable two years ago but regressed last season and regressed even more this season. He is still too young to be written off and is still considered to have high end potential, but at this point he must be considered a risk.

To offset the risk Chicago would take, I proposed an exchange of 1st and 2nd round draft picks which would move Chicago's 2nd round pick (probably somewhere between 50 and 60) to Phoenix in exchange for their 1st round pick (probably somewhere between 15 and 25).

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