HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Mikko Pyorola and more team Disc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-22-2009, 10:37 AM
  #26
FlyersRKings
Registered User
 
FlyersRKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Philly suburbs
Country: United States
Posts: 139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
If Carter/Giroux were to come out of this slump, I'd say in a Carter/Giroux for Kovalchuk, Atlanta would win.
That's a big IF. Right now you'd be lucky to get much for either player. Carter has more shots than any other player in the league. That's not just bad luck. Most of them have been atrocious and a waste of an opportunity.

FlyersRKings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 04:24 PM
  #27
Dig Out Your Soul
Ex Storm...
 
Dig Out Your Soul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersRKings View Post
Throw in JVR and you might have a deal there. Not sure how two underperforming wingers get one of the most dynamic in the game.
One proven PPG player and Giroux who has the potential to score at a PPG for a 90 point player...

Come on. Things are bad, but you can't give away half the team.

Dig Out Your Soul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 04:30 PM
  #28
FlyersRKings
Registered User
 
FlyersRKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Philly suburbs
Country: United States
Posts: 139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
One proven PPG player and Giroux who has the potential to score at a PPG for a 90 point player...

Come on. Things are bad, but you can't give away half the team.
If Carter was giving inklings that he was trying to be slightly more creative with the puck rather than shooting it from awful angles at the logo, then I'd give you that he has the potential to turn things around. Right now I can't imagine an opposing scout sees too much to like with his play.

Giroux I will give you as started to slowly turn it around.

However, Kovy is an established superstar. You have to give quality to get quality, plus we need to shed Carter's 5 mil salary. I would think that Atlanta would balk at Giroux/Carter alone.

FlyersRKings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 04:36 PM
  #29
Dig Out Your Soul
Ex Storm...
 
Dig Out Your Soul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersRKings View Post
If Carter was giving inklings that he was trying to be slightly more creative with the puck rather than shooting it from awful angles at the logo, then I'd give you that he has the potential to turn things around. Right now I can't imagine an opposing scout sees too much to like with his play.

Giroux I will give you as started to slowly turn it around.

However, Kovy is an established superstar. You have to give quality to get quality, plus we need to shed Carter's 5 mil salary. I would think that Atlanta would balk at Giroux/Carter alone.
Of course they would. I'm just asking the question how much do we really gain by trading two of our best offensive players for one guy? If we're talking Crosby, Malkin, or Ovechkin, then yeah you do it. You're taking on a ****load of salary for, potentially, a decrease in the total goals you score.

If Carter can score 46 and look like 50 is well within reach, and Giroux develops into even a 60 point player, what do you gain by paying Kovalchuk $10M? I think you gain a superstar but lose depth, important cap space, our only centre with size, and you end up losing goals - and you don't have the cap money to just pick up someone else to replace those goals.

...nevermind the idea of throwing in JVR.

We sacrificed offensive depth for Pronger this year and I think it's a contributing factor to sucking. Carter and Richards aren't good enough to carry teams offensively - they need help. But that's where we should be able to beat the Capitals and Pens - we can afford depth. Don't trade more of it away for one big-ticket player. Too many people are obsessed with this idea of superstars right now. We need this team to come together and play as a team.

Dig Out Your Soul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 04:36 PM
  #30
TheDrizzle81
Registered User
 
TheDrizzle81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Marlton NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,358
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to TheDrizzle81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Laperriere stinks. And we're going to get to smell him for 2 more years at $1.3M....
Really? Hes one of a few players ive been happy with on and off the ice. "Im mad, I hope my teammates are too..."

TheDrizzle81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 04:41 PM
  #31
Dig Out Your Soul
Ex Storm...
 
Dig Out Your Soul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDrizzle81 View Post
Really? Hes one of a few players ive been happy with on and off the ice. "Im mad, I hope my teammates are too..."
I've been happy with his play, but honestly, there's too much talk and not enough action out of these veteran leaders. Richards may be crap with the media, but he certainly doesn't feed us empty promises every day. "We need to look in the mirror" doesn't mean much when you say it after every game and never actually play better.

Dig Out Your Soul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 04:45 PM
  #32
TheDrizzle81
Registered User
 
TheDrizzle81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Marlton NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,358
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to TheDrizzle81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
I've been happy with his play, but honestly, there's too much talk and not enough action out of these veteran leaders. Richards may be crap with the media, but he certainly doesn't feed us empty promises every day. "We need to look in the mirror" doesn't mean much when you say it after every game and never actually play better.
I was hoping the veteren guys would have smacked some of these little kids around by now.

TheDrizzle81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 04:46 PM
  #33
FlyersRKings
Registered User
 
FlyersRKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Philly suburbs
Country: United States
Posts: 139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Of course they would. I'm just asking the question how much do we really gain by trading two of our best offensive players for one guy? If we're talking Crosby, Malkin, or Ovechkin, then yeah you do it. You're taking on a ****load of salary for, potentially, a decrease in the total goals you score.

If Carter can score 46 and look like 50 is well within reach, and Giroux develops into even a 60 point player, what do you gain by paying Kovalchuk $10M? I think you gain a superstar but lose depth, important cap space, our only centre with size, and you end up losing goals - and you don't have the cap money to just pick up someone else to replace those goals.

...nevermind the idea of throwing in JVR.

We sacrificed offensive depth for Pronger this year and I think it's a contributing factor to sucking. Carter and Richards aren't good enough to carry teams offensively - they need help. But that's where we should be able to beat the Capitals and Pens - we can afford depth. Don't trade more of it away for one big-ticket player. Too many people are obsessed with this idea of superstars right now. We need this team to come together and play as a team.
Don't forget that we may as well not have had an offense over the last 17 games. That's a hell of a 'slump' for someone of Carter's supposed calibre.

You also suggest that Carter and Giroux are the equivalent, combined, of a Crosby or a Malkin. That's laughable, and the problem. Kovalchuk is well worth that asking price.

The only offensive weapon we sacrificed for Pronger was Lupul, and he was the weakest of the 20 goal scorers on the team. Powe has more than made up for him in my mind.

Nobody is an 'offensive weapon' right now.

FlyersRKings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 04:52 PM
  #34
Dig Out Your Soul
Ex Storm...
 
Dig Out Your Soul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDrizzle81 View Post
I was hoping the veteren guys would have smacked some of these little kids around by now.
I don't know what I was hoping for - but it wasn't this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersRKings View Post
Don't forget that we may as well not have had an offense over the last 17 games. That's a hell of a 'slump' for someone of Carter's supposed calibre.

You also suggest that Carter and Giroux are the equivalent, combined, of a Crosby or a Malkin. That's laughable, and the problem. Kovalchuk is well worth that asking price.

The only offensive weapon we sacrificed for Pronger was Lupul, and he was the weakest of the 20 goal scorers on the team. Powe has more than made up for him in my mind.

Nobody is an 'offensive weapon' right now.
It's simple math. Crosby costs $8.7M a year, Carter and Giroux cost $5.9M. Crosby has 43 points, Carter and Giroux have 48 points in a bad year. Last year Crosby had 103 points I think - Carter and Giroux combined for roughly 110 with Giroux only playing half the year as a rookie.

Would I take Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk? Yes. But I'm saying trading two or three of your best players for one superstar might not pay the dividends you're hoping for in the cap world. I like our depth, they just need to get their **** together.

Dig Out Your Soul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 04:59 PM
  #35
FlyersRKings
Registered User
 
FlyersRKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Philly suburbs
Country: United States
Posts: 139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
I don't know what I was hoping for - but it wasn't this.



It's simple math. Crosby costs $8.7M a year, Carter and Giroux cost $5.9M. Crosby has 43 points, Carter and Giroux have 48 points in a bad year. Last year Crosby had 103 points I think - Carter and Giroux combined for roughly 110 with Giroux only playing half the year as a rookie.

Would I take Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk? Yes. But I'm saying trading two or three of your best players for one superstar might not pay the dividends you're hoping for in the cap world. I like our depth, they just need to get their **** together.
At the risk of this thread drifting off topic, you're thinking of Giroux and Carter only in monetary and point production terms. I would argue, as much as I hate to admit it, Crosby brings more to the table than either of them individually or combined in terms of hockey sense and poise. He's worth far more.

For Kovalchuk, he's a dynamic player who can energize a team and a building, something the Flyers are sorely lacking right now. Everyone holds their breath when Kovalchuk takes a shot in the offensive zone....Carter hits so many pads and boards I groan every time he takes a shot. A player of Kovy's stature brings far more to every game than just stats.

FlyersRKings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 05:13 PM
  #36
Dig Out Your Soul
Ex Storm...
 
Dig Out Your Soul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersRKings View Post
At the risk of this thread drifting off topic, you're thinking of Giroux and Carter only in monetary and point production terms. I would argue, as much as I hate to admit it, Crosby brings more to the table than either of them individually or combined in terms of hockey sense and poise. He's worth far more.

For Kovalchuk, he's a dynamic player who can energize a team and a building, something the Flyers are sorely lacking right now. Everyone holds their breath when Kovalchuk takes a shot in the offensive zone....Carter hits so many pads and boards I groan every time he takes a shot. A player of Kovy's stature brings far more to every game than just stats.
No question they're better players and bring more to the table (especially right now), I'm just trying to bring to light the matter of depth vs. superstar and hopefully bring some people back to earth. Things are bad, but let's not go crazy. With our cap and lack of picks/prospects, there's only so many moves we can afford to make.

You're right though, this is getting off topic.

Dig Out Your Soul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2009, 05:15 PM
  #37
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 111,730
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
No, I want him up here.



We might need a Center if Giroux and Carter get traded for Kovalchuk.
We're not getting Kovalchuk.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2009, 12:02 AM
  #38
captainpaxil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 2,179
vCash: 500
i think ashams familiarity with lavi and powes energy are gonna put pyro in the press box. i dont think hed suffer from a bit of time lighting up ahl goaltenders either. let him build his confidence up in case hes put into a more offensive role when pressed back into the lineup. i dont think hes played bad or that hes a bad player i just think we have a very solid bottom 6.

captainpaxil is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:03 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.