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Torts' Rangers revert to Renney style?

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Old
12-23-2009, 07:05 AM
  #1
RangerBoy
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Torts' Rangers revert to Renney style?

Quote:
"It's always defense first," said Tortorella, who did not say any such thing (at least publicly) last year or during training camp. "It's not falling back, but it's defense first in being on the right side of the puck.

"We still want to forecheck, but it's not about just going. It's never been about that. In the neutral zone we're now in kind of a hybrid forecheck [where we don't gamble as much]."
Quote:
"Torts wants us to be more physical and pay more attention to defense," said The Great Gabby. "He wants us to be safer, especially with the third man high in the zone to stop the odd-man rushes."
Quote:
"With Tom, we pretty much had a one-man forecheck with guys backing up a lot," said Dubinsky, who got into a bit of a fight on the ice with Brian Boyle during yesterday's optional practice. "Now, we're still committed to the two-man forecheck and our defense is still encouraged to jump into the play if it's there for them.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...p09ImJ5h5e6smJ

Whatever happened to Safe Is Death?

Torts sounds like Roger Neilson and Colin Campbell.

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Old
12-23-2009, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...p09ImJ5h5e6smJ

Whatever happened to Safe Is Death?

Torts sounds like Roger Neilson and Colin Campbell.
When he realized that lines 2, 3 and 4 could not hit the ocean with a hand full of peas while standing at the edge of a pier, he figured Safe isn't half bad.


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12-23-2009, 07:27 AM
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BKBlackRanger
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lol...this is not renney style hockey...cause i didn't fall asleep

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12-23-2009, 07:40 AM
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Yeah this whole "Tortorella is reverting to Renney's style!" isn't quite true. Like Dubinsky says, there's a pretty substantial difference.

I think Tortorella leaned too hard on the 'safe is death' rhetoric and it was really just used for theatrical effect...or at least, he realized that his team/any team can't really play that way and you have to have some responsibility and balance on defense.

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12-23-2009, 08:04 AM
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If winning games consecutively without giving up too many odd-man rushes resulting in goals-against and our defensemen helping out Hank just a tad bit (though he continues to stand on his head through most of the games) is "Renney-style hockey", then sure. I'll take it.

PS: This isn't Renney-style hockey. Just for the record.

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12-23-2009, 08:05 AM
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LOL

Wow. Guess Torts figured out what Renney knew all along.

This team (like Renney's teams) is a bunch of losers.

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12-23-2009, 08:10 AM
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The only system that a NHL coach should use is one that works.

The system that Torts likes was not working. Skill level? If so then...

The system of using "third man high" becomes a necessity for the way this team is currently constructed.

Torts original system matched with this team was "death". The 7-1 start may have initially fooled everyone into believing different.

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12-23-2009, 08:18 AM
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Too much is being made out of this.

Torts doesnt have the depth in players he needs to completely execute his system. So hes doing a very smart thing, and thats adjusting. He got into trouble in Tampa when he was too stuborn to adjust and it ultimately costed him his job.

Read Dubinksy's quote and thats all you'll have to see to understand this isn't Renneys system we are seeing. Renney played not to lose hockey. The Rangers (while it may not seem like it at times) play to win, or at least try to.

There are a lot of young players on this team, especially on defense so that means the forwards have to come back to support a little more, especially in the neutral zone so the forecheck is compromised to some extent. But its still 2 men on the puck. There is also less pinching from the D and rotating from forwards because some players are having trouble with that.

I think the biggest reason, and this stands paramount - is that they simply arent burying goals. If the goals start going in, they can stretch it out a little. The chances are there but for time being they are going to have to focus on what Torts says "is being on the right side of the puck"

Tortorella is starting to understand what kind of team he has and hes tweaking certain areas of the game to help his team win. He's not throwing up his arms and reverting to a 1-2-2 here.

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Old
12-23-2009, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKBlackRanger View Post
lol...this is not renney style hockey...cause i didn't fall asleep
If Renney had Gaborik, you wouldnt have fallen asleep.

Its really as simple as that.

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12-23-2009, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
If Renney had Gaborik, you wouldnt have fallen asleep.

Its really as simple as that.

gabby would have fallen asleep, then i'd follow lol

but seriously why even say that? renney didn't have gabby, so your point is invalid


Last edited by BKBlackRanger: 12-23-2009 at 08:45 AM.
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12-23-2009, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Too much is being made out of this.

Torts doesnt have the depth in players he needs to completely execute his system. So hes doing a very smart thing, and thats adjusting. He got into trouble in Tampa when he was too stuborn to adjust and it ultimately costed him his job.

Read Dubinksy's quote and thats all you'll have to see to understand this isn't Renneys system we are seeing. Renney played not to lose hockey. The Rangers (while it may not seem like it at times) play to win, or at least try to.

There are a lot of young players on this team, especially on defense so that means the forwards have to come back to support a little more, especially in the neutral zone so the forecheck is compromised to some extent. But its still 2 men on the puck. There is also less pinching from the D and rotating from forwards because some players are having trouble with that.

I think the biggest reason, and this stands paramount - is that they simply arent burying goals. If the goals start going in, they can stretch it out a little. The chances are there but for time being they are going to have to focus on what Torts says "is being on the right side of the puck"

Tortorella is starting to understand what kind of team he has and hes tweaking certain areas of the game to help his team win. He's not throwing up his arms and reverting to a 1-2-2 here.
This. Plus, we'd have to actually be winning consistently for Torts to resemble Renney.

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12-23-2009, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAPPY HOUR View Post
The only system that a NHL coach should use is one that works.

The system that Torts likes was not working. Skill level? If so then...

The system of using "third man high" becomes a necessity for the way this team is currently constructed.

Torts original system matched with this team was "death". The 7-1 start may have initially fooled everyone into believing different.
The 7-1 start was the result of Tort's system and no video of the team playing the system for other teams to watch/review and adjust to. Like I said during our win streak, once teams figure out the system and adjust it's going to shut down.

They close off the sideboards and we can not effectively move the puck up. The other teams learned where our for-checkers go in and adjust for it. It's a great system but I think it needs to be mixed into another system in a single game so the other team isn't always anticipating where our players are going so quickly...

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12-23-2009, 08:43 AM
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So Torts is "adjusting" while Renney was "boring". Got it.

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12-23-2009, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kind of Blue View Post
This. Plus, we'd have to actually be winning consistently for Torts to resemble Renney.
At this point in the season last year the Rangers were 22-13-2 and looking decent with 45 games to go.

Then the wheels fell off and Renney was fired. Things can change in a flash either way.

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12-23-2009, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKBlackRanger View Post
gabby would have fallen asleep, then i'd follow lol

but seriously why even say that? renney didn't have gabby, so your point is invalid
Gaborik spent his career prior to this season playing in an intense defense first system, and still managed to put up big points. Tom Renney played the cards he was given, especially last season. He had NO elite talent on his team. He didn't even have a first liner. Not one legit first line player. So he played stifling defense. What else was he supposed to do? Rely on **** for brains Gomez?

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12-23-2009, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
So Torts is "adjusting" while Renney was "boring". Got it.
except it's not the same "system" so whatever

I don't think Renney's failings were because of his system, I think he just lost the team last year and they were crashing and burning at entirely the wrong time

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12-23-2009, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
except it's not the same "system" so whatever

I don't think Renney's failings were because of his system, I think he just lost the team last year and they were crashing and burning at entirely the wrong time
Splitting hairs. The results have been similar.

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12-23-2009, 09:05 AM
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Splitting hairs. The results have been similar.
how is it splitting hairs? we're talking about systems, not results here.

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12-23-2009, 09:08 AM
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If the team adjusts and responds favorably, what is the difference if we play a more composed, defensively responsible game?

There's a difference in a offensive first coach dialing back the aggression to fit the squad he has, as opposed to a coach who uses a robotic defensive system every night.

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12-23-2009, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
So Torts is "adjusting" while Renney was "boring". Got it.
nope. Renney was methodical and robotic. Torts is dynamic.
big difference here.

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12-23-2009, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
how is it splitting hairs? we're talking about systems, not results here.
The system is yielding the same results a defense-first team that has trouble scoring. That doesn't sound a lot like what Renney was killed for?

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12-23-2009, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
nope. Renney was methodical and robotic. Torts is dynamic.
big difference here.
Dynamic? Why because he acts like an ass in post game press conferences and makes faces on the bench?

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12-23-2009, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
nope. Renney was methodical and robotic. Torts is dynamic.
big difference here.
What? You like Tortorella's persona better than Renney, hence he's the better option? This is a hockey team, not a reality show. We're looking for wins, not sound bytes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The system is yielding the same results a defense-first team that has trouble scoring. That doesn't sound a lot like what Renney was killed for?
My point exactly. Tortorella is achieving less with more.

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12-23-2009, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Dynamic? Why because he acts like an ass in post game press conferences and makes faces on the bench?
I think he has passion for the game and the team he's coaching. More so than that gum chewing mannequin Renney. It wasn't all on Renney last year, and it's not all on Torts this year. We don't have enough top six scoring, plain and simple. Plus we're acclimating alot of youth, you know the story...

At least with Torts i see accountability and game ownership.

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12-23-2009, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The system is yielding the same results a defense-first team that has trouble scoring. That doesn't sound a lot like what Renney was killed for?
I think it's more a problem with the players and I think Tortorella's "defense first" has a different priority than Renney's. I think Renney was just trying to prevent goals from being scored on his team, while Tortorella is trying to get his team to take the puck back and transition to offense.

But like I said, I don't really think Renney's system was the biggest problem, though it did irritate me at times that there seemed to be no real plan for offense at all. He was still working with a mediocre roster and his firing was more because he lost the team, I think

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