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Torts' Rangers revert to Renney style?

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Old
12-23-2009, 10:29 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
[B]We have always talked about playing defense first and when we say defense first, it doesnt mean were falling back and playing in our end zone.
Guess you missed the Flyer game.

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12-23-2009, 10:29 AM
  #52
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It should be pretty obvious by now to those who either liked/disliked Renney/Tortorella that personnel plays a
Part in this as well. We have a lot of underachieving top six forwards along with youth developing on a team
That saw 9 new faces, new system, coaches...

I may prefer Tortorella as a coach, but Im by no means absolving him of his mistakes and bad behavior.
Hes got to play the hand hes dealt right now if were going to maximize one of this teams greatest strengths:
Goaltending. We dont have the guns to play his signature style, so hes modified it.
No one style can win indefinitely in the NHL there has to be modifications.
Yea, poor Torts, it must be so difficult with the leading goal scorer in the NHL at his disposal. And yet, this team still only scores 2 goals a game.

Imagine if he had to depend on two ****heads like Gomez and Zherdev instead of Gaborik and Prospal?

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12-23-2009, 10:32 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The personas keep coming up because an absurd amount of fans are entertained with Torts' huffing and puffing. But the painful truth is Renney and Tortorella are awfully similar from a results standpoint when you compare last season with this season. And Tortorella has more talent at his disposal, just like he did when Sather added Antropov, Avery, and Morris last season.
At what point do you look at the players who aren't getting it done?
Players still have to execute and many aren't this year plain and simple.

Let's give Torts a few years to see what he can do before we rush
to make a final analysis.

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12-23-2009, 10:33 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Guess you missed the Flyer game.
nope you guessed wrong.

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12-23-2009, 10:34 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
At what point do you look at the players who aren't getting it done?
Players still have to execute and many aren't this year plain and simple.

Let's give Torts a few years to see what he can do before we rush
to make a final analysis.
At what point does that fall on the coach's shoulders?

Renney and Tortorella, by and large, both had **** rosters to deal with. Except with Renney it was him "holding back" the players, and with Torts its the players "not getting it done"

The double standard is just strange.

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12-23-2009, 10:35 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...p09ImJ5h5e6smJ

Whatever happened to Safe Is Death?

Torts sounds like Roger Neilson and Colin Campbell.
When he realized that his World Class, Star Goaltender is not quite what his reputation and nickname imply him to be; he had to change tactics.

Tortorella was thinkng that he had a brickwall between the pipes, who would more often than not; stonewall the opponent's odd man rushes and breakways. A solid last line of defense between the pipes.

It hasn't worked out that way. If anything, Lundqvist has been a bit exposed as being a goaltender who pretty much benefited from Renney's conservative defensive system and requires a consistently attentive and strong defensive effort from not only his defensemen, but also from his forwards.

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12-23-2009, 10:36 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
When he realized that his World Class, Star Goaltender is not quite what his reputation and nickname imply him to be; he had to change tactics.

Tortorella was thinkng that he had a brickwall between the pipes, who would more often than not; stonewall the opponent's odd man rushes and breakways. A solid last line of defense between the pipes.

It hasn't worked out that way. If anything, Lundqvist has been a bit exposed as being a goaltender who pretty much benefited from Renney's conservative defensive system and requires a consistently attentive and strong defensive effort from not only his defensemen, but also from his forwards.
Possibly the worst analysis I've seen yet on this board.

Maybe you'd have some sort of leg to stand on if the team was actually scoring goals.

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12-23-2009, 10:38 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
nope you guessed wrong.
Maybe you just missed the third period then. They sat back and played in their own zone.

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12-23-2009, 10:42 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
At what point does that fall on the coach's shoulders?

Renney and Tortorella, by and large, both had **** rosters to deal with. Except with Renney it was him "holding back" the players, and with Torts its the players "not getting it done"

The double standard is just strange.
There is a difference between a coach who is defense first all the time and one who has to make modifications to fit his roster.

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12-23-2009, 10:43 AM
  #60
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There is a difference between a coach who is defense first all the time and one who has to make modifications to fit his roster.
So Renney didn't make modifications?

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12-23-2009, 10:44 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Possibly the worst analysis I've seen yet on this board.

Maybe you'd have some sort of leg to stand on if the team was actually scoring goals.
It's okay. I don't need your approval to know there's truth in it. And your silly claim that it would have more merit if they were scoring goals, is funny. You know why?

Because Tortorella pulled them back at 8-10 games into the season, when they were scoring a lot more goals. Unfortuantely, the opponents were scoring more goals too, because of this team's all out attack and counter attack approach. It resulted in a lot more counter-punch opportunities for opponents.

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12-23-2009, 10:46 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Maybe you just missed the third period then. They sat back and played in their own zone.
I saw it, what do you expect me to say? At times all teams will do that that and sit on lead to get a win. I'm not surprised that happened considering he admitted to focusing more on defense as of late.

It'll probably happen again...

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12-23-2009, 10:46 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
There is a difference between a coach who is defense first all the time and one who has to make modifications to fit his roster.
So I guess not only were you not paying attention during the Flyers game, but you also werent paying attention during the first couple of years of Renney's tenure too?

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12-23-2009, 10:47 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
At what point does that fall on the coach's shoulders?

Renney and Tortorella, by and large, both had **** rosters to deal with. Except with Renney it was him "holding back" the players, and with Torts its the players "not getting it done"

The double standard is just strange.
BS... Renney had good rosters his first three years. Especially the middle two seasons. Both years (especially 07-08) we were picked to go pretty far. each year Renney got more and more defensively orientated, and our PP got progressively worse. Each year Renney focused more on defense, and clamped down on taking ANY chances.

Last year was just the final straw. And yes last year he had crap to deal with.

But IMO he should have been fired after the Buffalo debacle in 06-07 and most definately after being humiliated and completely outcoached in Pitt on 07-08. Renney was a coach who could get you into the PO's, but he was clueless as a coach in the PO's.

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12-23-2009, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
It's okay. I don't need your approval to know there's truth in it. And your silly claim that it would have more merit if they were scoring goals, is funny. You know why?

Because Tortorella pulled them back at 8-10 games into the season, when they were scoring a lot more goals. Unfortuantely, the opponents were scoring more goals too, because of this team's all out attack and counter attack approach. It resulted in a lot more counter-punch opportunities for opponents.
Its so convenient to say that Tortorella started pulling the team back right after the 7-1 start, except thats not what happened. At all.

Im quite sure Tortorella wouldnt give a **** if Lundqvist was giving up 5 goals a game if they were winning every game 6-5. The issue that the defense was a downright disaster and the offense came back down to earth and started scoring 2 goals a game every night again. The change in philosophy has little, if anything, to do with Lundqvist.

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12-23-2009, 10:51 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
each year Renney got more and more defensively orientated, and our PP got progressively worse. Each year Renney focused more on defense, and clamped down on taking ANY chances.
You mean that as Jagr's production declined and when the team lost 5 of their top 8 scorers from the year before, he played a more defensive system?

I can't imagine why.

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12-23-2009, 10:53 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
BS... Renney had good rosters his first three years. Especially the middle two seasons. Both years (especially 07-08) we were picked to go pretty far. each year Renney got more and more defensively orientated, and our PP got progressively worse. Each year Renney focused more on defense, and clamped down on taking ANY chances.

Last year was just the final straw. And yes last year he had crap to deal with.

But IMO he should have been fired after the Buffalo debacle in 06-07 and most definately after being humiliated and completely outcoached in Pitt on 07-08. Renney was a coach who could get you into the PO's, but he was clueless as a coach in the PO's.
Im comparing last season and this season.

But if you thought the 06-07 and 07-08 teams should have made it to the conference finals...thats just you being ridiculous.

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12-23-2009, 10:56 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
So I guess not only were you not paying attention during the Flyers game, but you also werent paying attention during the first couple of years of Renney's tenure too?
i saw the flyers game and watched them sit on one goal lead. This happens to every NHL team at some point in an 82 game season.
How does one period of play make Tortorella a hypocrite? He already said he was focusing more on defense didn't he?

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12-23-2009, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
You mean that as Jagr's production declined and when the team lost 5 of their top 8 scorers from the year before, he played a more defensive system?

I can't imagine why.
umm but they signed Gomez and Drury in the middle, and he never gave them any chance in an uptempo system, which everybody (including you i believe) were wanting him to do during their first year here.

or how about Renney overplaying shanny, which everybody was saying (and was completely true).

or his misuse of Prucha and Dawes (who is playing very solidly).

or his non ability to make changes in game, or overplay his 4th line.

or do you just forget about all the massive complaints that went on for the final 3 years of this team, including some of which i believe you joined in on.


Now I'm not saying that Torts is perfect (far from it). But he is also hampered with three horrible contracts left over from Renneyville. Also one of the them is a broken down player (Capt cash). he has 2 rookie dmen on the blueline, and two others who have less than 3 years experience (renney never had a blueline this young). he also has one of the youngest teams in the league (Renney tended to be more vet heavy).

so I actually think that Torts has less to deal with than Renney, but this team is oozing with potential. IMO Torts should not be criticized that much until the 2011 season. which will be a defining season, b/c he has to prove that he can get these kids playing like men. That does not happen overnight. But he is showing more gall than Renney in actually putting kids out there in the thick of battle, and in important situations.

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12-23-2009, 11:00 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Its so convenient to say that Tortorella started pulling the team back right after the 7-1 start, except thats not what happened. At all.

Im quite sure Tortorella wouldnt give a **** if Lundqvist was giving up 5 goals a game if they were winning every game 6-5. The issue that the defense was a downright disaster and the offense came back down to earth and started scoring 2 goals a game every night again. The change in philosophy has little, if anything, to do with Lundqvist.

That's absurd. This not the mid 80's with the Edmonton Oilers or Calgary Flames.


Believe what you want. But Torts was expecting and relying on Lundqvist to be his stonewall between the pipes. He stated exactly that several times during the summer and in Training Camp. He based his offensive attck strategy on it.

It didn't take him long to see that wasn't the case.

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12-23-2009, 11:03 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Im comparing last season and this season.

But if you thought the 06-07 and 07-08 teams should have made it to the conference finals...thats just you being ridiculous.
Go back and re-read what was being said about those teams those years. Many people thought that us versus Pitt would go 7 games.

And we definately should have beat Buffalo (that would have been an upset) if for Renney's horrible line decision late in the infamous 7 second game.

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12-23-2009, 11:05 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
That's absurd. This not the mid 80's with the Edmonton Oilers or Calgary Flames.


Believe what you want. But Torts was expecting and relying on Lundqvist to be his stonewall between the pipes. He stated exactly that several times during the summer and in Training Camp. He based his offensive attck strategy on it.

It didn't take him long to see that wasn't the case.
Whats actually absurd is you think Tortorella based his strategy on Lundqvist. His Safe is Death rhetoric was around well before Lundqvist was in the league.

And tell me something, what was more intregal to that philosophy in Tampa? LeCavalier, Richards, St. Louis, and Boyle or Khabibulin?

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12-23-2009, 11:07 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
umm but they signed Gomez and Drury in the middle, and he never gave them any chance in an uptempo system, which everybody (including you i believe) were wanting him to do during their first year here.

or how about Renney overplaying shanny, which everybody was saying (and was completely true).

or his misuse of Prucha and Dawes (who is playing very solidly).

or his non ability to make changes in game, or overplay his 4th line.

or do you just forget about all the massive complaints that went on for the final 3 years of this team, including some of which i believe you joined in on.


Now I'm not saying that Torts is perfect (far from it). But he is also hampered with three horrible contracts left over from Renneyville. Also one of the them is a broken down player (Capt cash). he has 2 rookie dmen on the blueline, and two others who have less than 3 years experience (renney never had a blueline this young). he also has one of the youngest teams in the league (Renney tended to be more vet heavy).

so I actually think that Torts has less to deal with than Renney, but this team is oozing with potential. IMO Torts should not be criticized that much until the 2011 season. which will be a defining season, b/c he has to prove that he can get these kids playing like men. That does not happen overnight. But he is showing more gall than Renney in actually putting kids out there in the thick of battle, and in important situations.
bravo, nicely done.

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Old
12-23-2009, 11:12 AM
  #74
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umm but they signed Gomez and Drury in the middle, and he never gave them any chance in an uptempo system, which everybody (including you i believe) were wanting him to do during their first year here.
Gomez is certainly tearing it up in Montreal's uptempo system. Not to mention Gomez matched his 2nd highest point total his first season in NY.

I don't see any sort of logic in saying Renney "never gave them a chance" when both players put up career averages in his system.

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12-23-2009, 11:18 AM
  #75
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Some people believe that any sort of defensive hockey is "Renney hockey." Yet, I don't remember a Renney system which employeed 2 forecheckers. I also don't quite see the whole "5 men in the picture" non-sense which was preached with Renney. I also still see breakaways, which were a rarity under Renney.

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