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Is Laviolette working these guys to death in practice?

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Old
12-23-2009, 03:26 PM
  #76
Shadow Flyer
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
Did anyone else hear that due to a sewage leak the Flyers had to cancel practice? That's not helping the situation.
Maybe the scent emanating from their current level of play was mistaken for an actual sewage leak?

Ok, I'm done being negative now. Briefly.

Go, fight, win! Or whatever...

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Old
12-23-2009, 04:33 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Quacker912 View Post
I was a huge hater of Stevens. I think it's pretty obvious that this is mostly on the players. They have no confidence and they are obviously just not getting things done, but that doesn't change the fact that Stevens simply didn't have a true system...
Right.

Stevens didn't have a system.

Laviolette does.

Yet they are playing WORSE under Laviolette than they were under Stevens.

Right.

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Old
12-23-2009, 04:35 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Right.

Stevens didn't have a system.

Laviolette does.

Yet they are playing WORSE under Laviolette than they were under Stevens.

Right.
No system can create motivation. I can't tell if there is one or not the way we can't seem to execute basic forechecking. I'll judge whether or not the 'new' system is working when someone lights a fire under their collective a****.

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12-23-2009, 04:39 PM
  #79
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Odd. Jester used to say that coaches had to tailor their Systems to the Players, put the Players in a position to be successful, et cetera, ad nauseum. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Whenever a player did uberFail - it was Stevens who didn't put that Player in a position to succeed.

Funny how the narrative has changed. Now it's "well, they aren't on the same page" and "they aren't conditioned to play this System". But that's not the coach's fault. At least, not the current coach.

It's no longer the coach who needs to adjust System to Players. It is now on Players to adjust to System. Neat and Clean, but really quite disingenuous.

This unending drive to be right about Stevens is ludicrous and laughable.


Last edited by GKJ: 12-23-2009 at 04:49 PM. Reason: editing quotations not allowed
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Old
12-23-2009, 04:44 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by FlyersRKings View Post
No system can create motivation. I can't tell if there is one or not the way we can't seem to execute basic forechecking. I'll judge whether or not the 'new' system is working when someone lights a fire under their collective a****.
I agree with that, except that from System can grow Success, and from Success can grow Motivation.

Whatever the case, it certainly wasn't Motivation a month ago. A month ago, it was the Players being held back by the System.

Disarray in their own end? System.

Messy breakouts? System.

Dearth of scoring opportunities? System.

Now it's motivation or heart or effort or conditioning - anything, ANYTHING, but System.

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Old
12-23-2009, 04:50 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Right.

Stevens didn't have a system.

Laviolette does.

Yet they are playing WORSE under Laviolette than they were under Stevens.

Right.
Because it takes time to learn a new system. Laviolette once won with this system. The fact the Flyers are so awful adapting to it is a condemnation of how Stevens had this team prepared to play.

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12-23-2009, 04:50 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
I agree with that, except that from System can grow Success, and from Success can grow Motivation.

Whatever the case, it certainly wasn't Motivation a month ago. A month ago, it was the Players being held back by the System.

Disarray in their own end? System.

Messy breakouts? System.

Dearth of scoring opportunities? System.

Now it's motivation or heart or effort or conditioning - anything, ANYTHING, but System.

I see your point. The main issue I have is that Stevens changed so little from game to game....how many games did we have to sit and watch Timonen and Coburn play together ineptly? How many times was the only change some line shuffling, and even then not on the back end? Every game we were trying the same poorly executed routine, that the players were just not responding to, and it was frustrating to see that there was apparently nothing left in Steven's sack of tricks.

My view is that this slump started with a failed system and now that the magic pill, a new coach, hasn't got results with his new system IMMEDIATELY, we have a motivation problem. I would like to see how Laviolette's system works with a team that is willing to execute it correctly and actually work AT making it work.

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12-23-2009, 05:06 PM
  #83
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JXC is wrong about everything.

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Old
12-23-2009, 06:18 PM
  #84
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JXC will search long and hard before he finds me complaining about motivation. I was firmly on board with the belief that the players liked Stevens, and their reaction to him being fired didn't come as the slightest shock.

"Motivation" under Stevens was never an issue...accountability for penalties (a continuing problem due to the culture he created), and accountability in general were.

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12-23-2009, 06:23 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
JXC will search long and hard before he finds me complaining about motivation. I was firmly on board with the belief that the players liked Stevens, and their reaction to him being fired didn't come as the slightest shock.

"Motivation" under Stevens was never an issue...accountability for penalties (a continuing problem due to the culture he created), and accountability in general were.
You don't think that some of the players were shocked? Richards looked like someone just ***** his puppy.

But, yeah, Stevens is, by all accounts, a really nice guy who wants to be everyone's friend. I'm sure that the players loved him. Big paychecks and zero accountability. This coming offseason and following training camp are going to be a big wakeup call for a lot of players.

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Old
12-23-2009, 06:35 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
You don't think that some of the players were shocked? Richards looked like someone just ***** his puppy.

But, yeah, Stevens is, by all accounts, a really nice guy who wants to be everyone's friend. I'm sure that the players loved him. Big paychecks and zero accountability. This coming offseason and following training camp are going to be a big wakeup call for a lot of players.
They were "shocked," I guess...I think it was probably more just being upset that he got canned. I know some used that word--"shocked"--but I don't know how they could be that disconnected with what was swirling around the team at that point. I was a bit surprised, but once the media started to run with the "Stevens in trouble" stories you know they were hearing that internally.

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Old
12-23-2009, 10:05 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
Laviolette is simply a pissed off coach. You should expect a lot of yelling if you don't do exactly what he wants, and I don't think the players like that, being used to Stevens who was always very calm.
Sleepy, bored, not paying attention or thinking what he will say after the game.

Fans like JXC expect Lavi to change everything within one week because coaching changes work over night.

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12-23-2009, 10:06 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersRKings View Post
My view is that this slump started with a failed system and now that the magic pill, a new coach, hasn't got results with his new system IMMEDIATELY, we have a motivation problem. I would like to see how Laviolette's system works with a team that is willing to execute it correctly and actually work AT making it work.
I think this slump started when Pronger whipped out his pecker and proclaimed that he didn't like the young fellas' work ethic.

On your latter point, so would I. Too many good players on this team to have been playing so poorly.

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Old
12-23-2009, 10:09 PM
  #89
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Jester will search long and hard before he finds any meaningful "accountability" in what Laviolette has done so far; it's just another empty cliche that is used to avoid taking note of player deficiencies.

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12-23-2009, 10:10 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Fans like JXC expect Lavi to change everything within one week because coaching changes work over night.
"Fans" like Kaktus whine and wail about Stevens having "no system" and then proclaim ten games of awful hockey to be "over night" when the new coach soils the bed.

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12-23-2009, 10:39 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
"Fans" like Kaktus whine and wail about Stevens having "no system" and then proclaim ten games of awful hockey to be "over night" when the new coach soils the bed.
I whine about it because your boy has no clue how to coach a hockey team. PP failed to produce this year and our team fall apart. It's that simple, really. Every other bad habit Flyers accumulated under Stevens "system" just cough up with us this season.

Stevens did not even lose control of his hockey club because he never had it in the 1st place.

Lets pretend that I am wrong in my opinion about Stevens.. That does not change a god damn thing. He had two shots to beat Pittsburgh and failed. Do you think Flyers would beat Pittsburgh under Stevens this year? Are you that dumb?


Last edited by Kaktus*: 12-23-2009 at 11:06 PM.
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12-23-2009, 11:07 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
I wail about it because your boy has no clue how to coach a hockey team. PP failed to produce this year and our team fall apart. It's that simple, really. Every other bad habit Flyers accumulated under Stevens "system" just cough up with us this season.

Stevens did not even lose control of his hockey club because he never had it in the 1st place.

Lets pretend that I am wrong in my opinion about Stevens.. That does not change a god damn thing. He had two shots to beat Pittsburgh and failed. Do you think Flyers would beat Pittsburgh under Stevens this year? Are you that dumb?
Yes, he is.

In addition 10 games with a small number of full practice days and no training camp puts the coach at an extreme disadvantage. This is especially true since Stevens didn't have a semblance of system in the first place. This isn't like Bylsma who took over a team that literally quit on their coach. The young guys liked Stevens because he was easy on them.

This team can be fixed and certainly is talented enough to do very well. But it is going to take some time. I thought that the team might've won a bunch of games right after the change on adrenaline alone but that didn't happen. Now, though, they are getting fairly healthy and the should be able to get some decent practices in after the Winter Classic.

You can't remove bad habits over night and I'm sure the removal of those habits is going to lead to some player changes in the offseason.

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Old
12-24-2009, 10:04 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
I whine about it because your boy has no clue how to coach a hockey team.
If that was true then the change from No Clue to Cup Winner would have yielded immediate dividends.

But it hasn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Every other bad habit Flyers accumulated under Stevens "system" just cough up with us this season.
Right.

All the damage finally took its toll after the club went 6-4-1 in September and then won 6 of their first 7 games in November.

Then the Stevens habits kicked in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
He had two shots to beat Pittsburgh
This isn't Nintendo, Chief.

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Old
12-24-2009, 10:09 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
All the damage finally took its toll after the club went 6-4-1 in September and then won 6 of their first 7 games in November.

Then the Stevens habits kicked in.

No, he just didn't survive the massive slump this year.

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Old
12-24-2009, 10:20 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
No, he just didn't survive the massive slump this year.
After catching heat for previous slumps in each of the past two years.

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12-24-2009, 12:10 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
If that was true then the change from No Clue to Cup Winner would have yielded immediate dividends.
I guess you expected overnight turnaround? Silly. I just wanted two things to work for us. Limit penalties and improve our work ethic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
This isn't Nintendo, Chief.
I agree. It takes a year to wait for another chance and I do not want our team to waste another year under Johnny.

Look, Stevens had everything going for him when he took over. One of his better friends was also his GM, team with over 20M of cap space, decent prospect and picks money and fan base. He ****ed up because he was a below average coach.

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Old
12-24-2009, 12:14 PM
  #97
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Didn't want to make a whole new thread about this, but does anyone else LOVE how Lavy is using timeouts? He's getting the team back on track before they get too far behind.

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12-24-2009, 12:16 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quacker912 View Post
Didn't want to make a whole new thread about this, but does anyone else LOVE how Lavy is using timeouts? He's getting the team back on track before they get too far behind.
I do.

It's nice to have a coach call time outs. Stevens rarely used timeouts..ever.

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Old
12-24-2009, 01:36 PM
  #99
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Didn't want to make a whole new thread about this, but does anyone else LOVE how Lavy is using timeouts? He's getting the team back on track before they get too far behind.
We love it because we're not used to it being used in proper fashion like this.

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Old
12-24-2009, 02:47 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
JXC is wrong about everything.
I have quit even discussings things with him anymore because its quite obvious he doesnt get it about alot of things.
The new system put into place is not going to wirh overnight. The schedule has been rough, a game every night or 3 games in 4 nights.
Doesnt leave alot of time to work on what you need to work on.
If Stevens was still here, they probably would be making holiday cakes talking about how well the Flyers competed in the previous game.

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