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Could Ovechkin break Gretzky's records if he played in the same time period?

View Poll Results: Would Ovechkin be better than Gretzky was if he started his career at the same time?
Yes 42 31.58%
No 91 68.42%
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-23-2009, 06:57 PM
  #101
SuicideKings15
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Originally Posted by Devil Dancer View Post
And how do you know? Have you played at the NHL level? Paul Stastny seems to think those old wood sticks stack up just fine against the modern composites.
I've played in NHL prospects tournaments. Close enough. Even in junior we get all our sticks custom specified. Custom torque, custom lie, custom curve, hell, we even get custom aesthetics.

Trust me, when you play with a stick you basically hand picked and spec. yourself all the time, the drop down to just any wooden twig is a huge, huge difference. Don't be fooled, Stastny customizes all of his sticks to the tee to make them usable for him.

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Old
12-23-2009, 07:01 PM
  #102
McNuts
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
You do know the Soviets of the time were members of the military, who were kept from their families 11 months out of the year, right? And their "military service" was 100% devoted to training for hockey.

NHL players do train year round, today, but certainly not with the intensity of the Soviets.

As for new fangled supplements like creatine, well, let's just say that the Soviet players admitted they were "offered" mystery shots.

Harder training does not equal efficiency. Your assumption that Soviets were in better shape athletically in 1980 than today is completely false. Ovechkin is 6'2, 225 lbs, and he's faster and stronger than any player in 1980.

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Old
12-23-2009, 07:45 PM
  #103
shazariahl
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Originally Posted by Humphrey22 View Post
are you serious????? look at sprinting now compared to 30 years ago. compare the world records. ditto for swimming. look at figure skating now (lol, i know). put Tiger Woods in a time machine to 1980. he'd win every single event he entered.

how on earth can anyone think differently?
You raise some good points, but how do you explain a Jerry Rice in the NFL? He was the best in the 80's and 90's, even better than guys like Randy Moss and T.O. And yet, here we are a decade after he retired, and those guys he dominated are some of the top recievers in the NFL still. Rice also has all the career records for receivers (and a few that aren't for receivers, like all time yards from scrimmage, lol).
No one has really challenged his records, and even people like Moss aren't on pace to beat the majority of them.

What about Lemieux? He was from the 80's/90's, was clearly better than guys like Jagr, and yet Jagr was clearly better than most players from the 2000's. Heck, even Gretzky had a better PPG average than Jagr did through the 90's, and that includes a lot of games near the end of his career where he was just a shadow of his former self.

Jagr's last season in the NHL he managed to outscore AO (granted it was Ovechkin's first NHL season, but still). So if a young AO has problems outscoring an old Jagr, and young Jagr couldn't outscore old Gretzky, and young Gretzky outscored everyone ever... I don't see how AO would be able to beat or break most of Gretzky's records, regardless of era. He isn't better NOW than Gretzky was then, so him playing then wouldn't have made him better either.

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12-23-2009, 08:38 PM
  #104
The Dayvan Cowboy
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Nope.

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12-23-2009, 09:18 PM
  #105
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by shazariahl View Post
You raise some good points, but how do you explain a Jerry Rice in the NFL? He was the best in the 80's and 90's, even better than guys like Randy Moss and T.O. And yet, here we are a decade after he retired, and those guys he dominated are some of the top recievers in the NFL still. Rice also has all the career records for receivers (and a few that aren't for receivers, like all time yards from scrimmage, lol).
No one has really challenged his records, and even people like Moss aren't on pace to beat the majority of them.

What about Lemieux? He was from the 80's/90's, was clearly better than guys like Jagr, and yet Jagr was clearly better than most players from the 2000's. Heck, even Gretzky had a better PPG average than Jagr did through the 90's, and that includes a lot of games near the end of his career where he was just a shadow of his former self.

Jagr's last season in the NHL he managed to outscore AO (granted it was Ovechkin's first NHL season, but still). So if a young AO has problems outscoring an old Jagr, and young Jagr couldn't outscore old Gretzky, and young Gretzky outscored everyone ever... I don't see how AO would be able to beat or break most of Gretzky's records, regardless of era. He isn't better NOW than Gretzky was then, so him playing then wouldn't have made him better either.
Come on now. You know facts just confuse the kids who have no respect for anyone who played before they were born.

I think we all know the average player today is stronger and faster than ever. But superstars with long careers like Bourque, Lemieux, and Jagr prove that the best hockey players are just simply the best. Jerry Rice is a great comparison to another sport.

Was hockey really that different in 2001 from today? Because two superstars from the 80s - an injury-slowed Lemieux and an aging Ray Bourque were still among the league's elite.


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Old
12-23-2009, 09:23 PM
  #106
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Nope not a chance, you have to also consider things like quality of skates, sticks everything. Its not like every player was doing what gretzky was doing back then

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12-23-2009, 09:25 PM
  #107
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He might've been able to break the single season goals record, but no way he would have been better overall or broken any point records.

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12-23-2009, 09:26 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shazariahl View Post
You raise some good points, but how do you explain a Jerry Rice in the NFL? He was the best in the 80's and 90's, even better than guys like Randy Moss and T.O. And yet, here we are a decade after he retired, and those guys he dominated are some of the top recievers in the NFL still. Rice also has all the career records for receivers (and a few that aren't for receivers, like all time yards from scrimmage, lol).
No one has really challenged his records, and even people like Moss aren't on pace to beat the majority of them.

What about Lemieux? He was from the 80's/90's, was clearly better than guys like Jagr, and yet Jagr was clearly better than most players from the 2000's. Heck, even Gretzky had a better PPG average than Jagr did through the 90's, and that includes a lot of games near the end of his career where he was just a shadow of his former self.

Jagr's last season in the NHL he managed to outscore AO (granted it was Ovechkin's first NHL season, but still). So if a young AO has problems outscoring an old Jagr, and young Jagr couldn't outscore old Gretzky, and young Gretzky outscored everyone ever... I don't see how AO would be able to beat or break most of Gretzky's records, regardless of era. He isn't better NOW than Gretzky was then, so him playing then wouldn't have made him better either.
Nonsense. Gretzky dominated Brodeur, Stevens and Niedermayer in the 1997 playoffs... but that was a couple of years before his retirement, after which our cyborg overlords immediately implanted bionic augmentations in all athletes to double player efficiency. He'd have no chance against modern Norris-nominated human-fortresses like Mike Green and Dion Phaneuf.

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Old
12-23-2009, 10:35 PM
  #109
SuicideKings15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McNuts View Post
Harder training does not equal efficiency. Your assumption that Soviets were in better shape athletically in 1980 than today is completely false. Ovechkin is 6'2, 225 lbs, and he's faster and stronger than any player in 1980.
In the year 1980 or the 80's? Because there were tonnes of Russians who were as big and strong as Ovechkin back then. Fetisov was an absolute tank. Kasatonov was built like a wall, too. Malakhov, Mironov, Gimayev. Zybin was relatively short (5'11, 215), but probably one of the strongest Soviets ever.

And while we're at it, Firsov then had a better shot than Ovechkin does now. Regardless of equipment.

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Old
12-24-2009, 05:32 AM
  #110
The_Human_Atombomb
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
150? Pffft. He'd have that many by Christmas.

More like 250, 300 a season! Gretzky's records would fall by the time AO was 25 years old!

...The creative minds and baseless assertions of HF.
Exactly. Gretzky's accomplishments are vastly underrated here. In Ovechkin's most dominant goal scoring season, he won the Rocket Richard over Kovalchuk by roughly 25% while Gretzky won his goal scoring titles against players like Bossy, Kurri or Dionne by 40, sometimes even more than 50%.

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Old
12-24-2009, 01:05 PM
  #111
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There's this thing I've heard of where a guy tries to do this by looking at who played with who and how old they were. Basically, if Howe plays with X in 1950 and X plays with Y in 1965, how would Y have done in 1950? Logically, if you had enough links and players you could do something like this for any player to any year. It might be worth looking into I suppose.

As for this question, who the heck knows?

I'd say no, but he'd have a good chance.

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