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Torts not impressed by Reds,indicates changes on D looming

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Old
12-26-2009, 01:13 PM
  #226
Vidic15
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Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
I'm just quite surprised this alienation towards Redden has started now of all times, I think he's been one of our best defensemen this season. Perhaps because Torts can see the much cheaper alternatives from the back and it's not like we're going anywhere anyway with this team for some time.
Rangers are positioning themselves for a deadline move. There is just no other way to make room for salary other than dumping Redden or Roszival.

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12-26-2009, 02:42 PM
  #227
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Oh man, youngest defense in the NHL by far, here we come... I'm personally quite unsure if I would prefer Drury or Redden gone. Both are absolutely horrible contracts. How about both?

I'm just quite surprised this alienation towards Redden has started now of all times, I think he's been one of our best defensemen this season. Perhaps because Torts can see the much cheaper alternatives from the back and it's not like we're going anywhere anyway with this team for some time.
I can deal with Drury for 2 more years, as opposed to 4 more of Redden.

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12-26-2009, 03:06 PM
  #228
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Rangers are positioning themselves for a deadline move. There is just no other way to make room for salary other than dumping Redden or Roszival.
Which is just so wrong. Why the hell are we buyers? Again? With this team so young that it practically screams rebuild? What delusional management think we even have a sniff of a chance at the cup this season? The kids are unexperienced and the veterans underperforming at such a level we can fill half the roster on a "bums of the NHL" list. If we sacrifice future for yet another overpaid veteran mercenary who will probably be gone this summer or whatever, I swear I'm going to scream.

Play out the season and prepare for a real cup run at around 2012. Be sellers at the deadline, not that we have anything else but garbage to sell anyway that we want to part with. That's what I would do.

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12-26-2009, 04:45 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
Oh man, youngest defense in the NHL by far, here we come... I'm personally quite unsure if I would prefer Drury or Redden gone. Both are absolutely horrible contracts. How about both?

I'm just quite surprised this alienation towards Redden has started now of all times, I think he's been one of our best defensemen this season. Perhaps because Torts can see the much cheaper alternatives from the back and it's not like we're going anywhere anyway with this team for some time.
Sorry, I disagree on most counts. Redden has been horrible for the most of the time since he's been here. And when he hasn't been horrible, he's been barely decent, playing a passionless, disinterested game. It's not a question of living up to his contract--I don't think Tortorella gives a damn how much Redden is paid or whether there are "cheaper" prospects in the system--(which, given his decline in Ottawa, was always going to be impossible to live up to), but the fact that he's not helping the team at all, even when playing 3rd pairing minutes. Tortorella tried very hard to get him going, giving him more ice time, giving him less ice time, but none of it has changed the way he's played. Whether we are talking about a rebuilding team or a team trying to make the playoffs, Redden is useless.

And there are 4 more years of this coming. Something has to be done, if not during the season, then afterwards. Sending him to Hartford doesn't solve the problem in the long term and having only 3 more or less experienced defenseman is not a good idea regardless--it doesn't create a good situation for the younger players (including Staal, who would be asked to do even more) and it doesn't create a stable situation for the rest of the team.

As long as there is the possiblity of making the playoffs, I doubt we will see Redden replaced by an inexperienced defenseman. From a financial standpoint, making the playoffs is very important, it pumps up the balance sheet--which is very important since Cablevision is spinning off the Garden/MSG into a public entity--and allows them to maintain or even raise ticket prices again. Management will try almost anything possible, as long as it doesn't mean trading players they think are critical for the future. They are not going to give up now. And I doubt we will see a real firesale, even if it becomes clear that this group is too flawed to compete for a playoff spot. The organization is not going to sell off players for draft choices that may turn into NHL players 3-5 years down the line. Getting rid of one or more of the big contracts will only free up money for Sather to try again.

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Old
12-26-2009, 10:08 PM
  #230
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Stop complaining about Redden until you kill Rosi. That guy is just awful.

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12-26-2009, 10:12 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by segmentation fault View Post
Stop complaining about Redden until you kill Rosi. That guy is just awful.
What games have you been watching lately..

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12-26-2009, 10:30 PM
  #232
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roster freeze is over now, so could be some moves coming tomorrow

is it feasible what so ever to come up with a deal with TO and Brian Burke

Blake and Exelby for Rozsival and Higgins?

If not for the whole Avery / Blake fiasco I think that trade helps out both teams


Last edited by Vitto79: 12-27-2009 at 10:37 AM.
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Old
12-27-2009, 12:18 AM
  #233
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Stop complaining about Redden until you kill Rosi. That guy is just awful.
Peace on earth and good will to all, to you too.

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12-27-2009, 04:27 PM
  #234
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Prior to the two days off for Christmas, Tortorella was asked about adding a seventh defenseman, likely at the expense of one of the two extra forwards currently on the roster - Aaron Voros or Erik Christensen. His response was to ask him after Christmas because of the NHL roster freeze, though he said at the time he couldnít make a good argument against a seventh defenseman. The roster freeze expires at midnight but Tortorella said he didnít have anything to report on that issue and he didnít anticipate a roster move being made before the Rangers host the Flyers on Wednesday.

ďWeíre discussing a lot of different things with our lineup as far as the second half (of the season),Ē Tortorella said. ďI donít have a whole bunch to report. Myself, Glen (Sather) and Schoney (assistant GM Jim Schoenfeld) have talked and weíre going to continue talking. A lot of things come into play with this type of decision. Itís discussed among the organization. I donít foresee anything happening before the next game. I donít know, I canít guarantee it. We discussed it this morning.Ē
http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/r.../sunday_skate/

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12-27-2009, 06:43 PM
  #235
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heres my take

redden has little value around the league and with that contract hes unmoveable. hes going no where and we arent waiving him.

drury is our capt. and although his results are so-so, he does have some value. hes got that ntc so again going no where.

leaving mike blowzsy. his contract, although bad, isnt as bad as the two above. hes the most moveable and the least essential to this team. i mean, what does blowzsitall do the best. i mean, whats he good at.... nothing. and pretty much every dman we have now is atleast as good as or better than blowzy.

looks like mike is the one to go. move him at the deadline for a pick or a prospect. pure salary dump. and for the record, i fully expect hell go to a contender and put up points.

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12-27-2009, 06:58 PM
  #236
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i don't understand why redden wasn't frontloaded harder. from now on, every contract slats gives out should be super duper frontloaded. then we can dump our mistakes on teams with self imposed caps who need to reach the floor.

take kotalik. his cap hit and dollar amount are the same for every year of his deal. wouldn't it have been wiser to give him 6 mil in year one, 2 in year two and 1 in year 3?

redden should've made 10 mil last year and 10 mil this year. then, this summer he'd be moveable.
now, the only solution is to waive and demote him.

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12-27-2009, 07:18 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
heres my take

redden has little value around the league and with that contract hes unmoveable. hes going no where and we arent waiving him.

drury is our capt. and although his results are so-so, he does have some value. hes got that ntc so again going no where.

leaving mike blowzsy. his contract, although bad, isnt as bad as the two above. hes the most moveable and the least essential to this team. i mean, what does blowzsitall do the best. i mean, whats he good at.... nothing. and pretty much every dman we have now is atleast as good as or better than blowzy.

looks like mike is the one to go. move him at the deadline for a pick or a prospect. pure salary dump. and for the record, i fully expect hell go to a contender and put up points.
You can say that about Roszival, you can even believe it. But, before you talk about dumping his contract, remember that he has averaged 20 minutes a game this season (and is averaging more in the last month). Those minutes have to be replaced if he's traded and we've all seen how difficult it can be to have two rookies learning how to play defense during the season.

Bottom line: if the Rangers are not completely out of a playoff spot come the trade deadline, Roszival is going nowhere. He may be moved over the summer, but knowing Sather it will not be a pure salary dump, he will expect something back.

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12-27-2009, 07:24 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
i don't understand why redden wasn't frontloaded harder. from now on, every contract slats gives out should be super duper frontloaded. then we can dump our mistakes on teams with self imposed caps who need to reach the floor.

take kotalik. his cap hit and dollar amount are the same for every year of his deal. wouldn't it have been wiser to give him 6 mil in year one, 2 in year two and 1 in year 3?

redden should've made 10 mil last year and 10 mil this year. then, this summer he'd be moveable.
now, the only solution is to waive and demote him.
There are restrictions in the CBA about that (unbalanced salaries)--you can check the Business of Hockey board if you're interested.

And teams--especially those with tight budgets--need to get bang for the money they are willing to spend. Having fading veterans on long term contracts is not the ideal way for them to spend their limited resources.

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12-27-2009, 10:02 PM
  #239
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There are restrictions in the CBA about that (unbalanced salaries)--you can check the Business of Hockey board if you're interested.

And teams--especially those with tight budgets--need to get bang for the money they are willing to spend. Having fading veterans on long term contracts is not the ideal way for them to spend their limited resources.
look at the hossa and savard deals. why couldn't redden be making 6 figures in the last years of his deal if they are?

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12-27-2009, 10:57 PM
  #240
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look at the hossa and savard deals. why couldn't redden be making 6 figures in the last years of his deal if they are?
Because (in Redden's case) the CBA forbids it? As I said, take a look at the Business of hockey board--there's a lot of discussion on the ins and outs of the CBA and how it's applied. There are definite restrictions of how big a variation there can be within the years of a contract. As for Hossa and Savard--the league is looking into those types of contracts and may very well force teams to change the terms.

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12-28-2009, 12:13 AM
  #241
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look at the hossa and savard deals. why couldn't redden be making 6 figures in the last years of his deal if they are?
He could but Sather chose not to do business that way. Sather also signed The King for 6 years at top dollar when he could have done a longer and/or more lopsided contract. Slats has made it pretty clear he doesn't like the long term deals with low payments at the end. Can't say I agree or disagree.

The next collective bargaining agreement will change the landscape of the league. NHL players and owners hate a number of things in the agreement. There will be changes and I suspect some of those changes will be favorable to big market, high dollar teams. After all, when you consider who is paying the bulk of revenue sharing, it's a relative handful of teams. In 2012, much opportunity will exist to change the macinations of the agreement. One thing I think will come into focus is a limited (on every 2-3 years) number of amnesty buyouts.

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12-28-2009, 04:33 AM
  #242
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
heres my take

redden has little value around the league and with that contract hes unmoveable. hes going no where and we arent waiving him.

drury is our capt. and although his results are so-so, he does have some value. hes got that ntc so again going no where.

leaving mike blowzsy. his contract, although bad, isnt as bad as the two above. hes the most moveable and the least essential to this team. i mean, what does blowzsitall do the best. i mean, whats he good at.... nothing. and pretty much every dman we have now is atleast as good as or better than blowzy.

looks like mike is the one to go. move him at the deadline for a pick or a prospect. pure salary dump. and for the record, i fully expect hell go to a contender and put up points.

Unfortunately Sather views these players as assets and will try to get a return for them instead of moving them to whoever will take them just for the sake of taking them.

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12-28-2009, 05:05 AM
  #243
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Why the &%$%% is Torts so focused on the D when it's offense which is out main issue. Gotta score, the goals 2 a night aint cutting it. It's not the D's fault that we have one line that can score!

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12-28-2009, 06:05 AM
  #244
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Originally Posted by WheresBarnaby View Post
Why the &%$%% is Torts so focused on the D when it's offense which is out main issue. Gotta score, the goals 2 a night aint cutting it. It's not the D's fault that we have one line that can score!

At the same time it could be viewed as our defense being the department that is lacking as Torts' game plan has drastically changed from an all-out attack system to a more conservative.. for reasons in which we can either assess and blame on either our A) Offense being totally inept of performing the system Torts is looking for, which we actually did play at the beginning of the season, or B) Our defense is lacking, which would then be a detriment to the original offensive system, which would thus be preventing us from scoring because we would obviously have adjust accordingly, which I believe we have.

What's obvious is that our team is in need for someone,somewhere on the team.

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12-28-2009, 06:22 AM
  #245
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At the same time it could be viewed as our defense being the department that is lacking as Torts' game plan has drastically changed from an all-out attack system to a more conservative.. for reasons in which we can either assess and blame on either our A) Offense being totally inept of performing the system Torts is looking for, which we actually did play at the beginning of the season, or B) Our defense is lacking, which would then be a detriment to the original offensive system, which would thus be preventing us from scoring because we would obviously have adjust accordingly, which I believe we have.

What's obvious is that our team is in need for someone,somewhere on the team.
If only one player in the right spot was all we needed. lol

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Old
12-28-2009, 12:39 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
heres my take

redden has little value around the league and with that contract hes unmoveable. hes going no where and we arent waiving him.

drury is our capt. and although his results are so-so, he does have some value. hes got that ntc so again going no where.

leaving mike blowzsy. his contract, although bad, isnt as bad as the two above. hes the most moveable and the least essential to this team. i mean, what does blowzsitall do the best. i mean, whats he good at.... nothing. and pretty much every dman we have now is atleast as good as or better than blowzy.

looks like mike is the one to go. move him at the deadline for a pick or a prospect. pure salary dump. and for the record, i fully expect hell go to a contender and put up points.
So, let me see if I follow here.

Since Redden is so bad and has a contract thats so unmovable, you just sort of accept that hes in the lineup and ignore him.

But since Rozsival, whose better, possesses a level of play and a contract that might be desirable to other teams, hes the one that you constantly harp on as being worthless (even though hes been the opposite for weeks now)?

I mean, that line of thinking fits your act, which is picking favorites and players to hate and not deviating from that course no matter how they actually play, but it honestly astounds me everytime

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12-28-2009, 12:47 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by WheresBarnaby View Post
Why the &%$%% is Torts so focused on the D when it's offense which is out main issue. Gotta score, the goals 2 a night aint cutting it. It's not the D's fault that we have one line that can score!
Hmm, let's see.

The Rangers are currently ranked 15th in the league in goals per game and 16th in goals allowed per game. They are ranked 20th in shots per game and 19th in shots allowed per game. Seems to me like the offense AND defense are both major problems!

I don't understand why so many people say offense is the major issue while defense isn't. They are equally problematic in my opinion. Are the people who maintain that the defense isn't a problem blind to all the lapses in defensive coverage and failure to clear the crease that happens on a nightly basis?

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