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Old
12-23-2009, 02:51 PM
  #51
Diamonddog01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
I am perfectly calm - I do not need to SHOUT at posters. I am also not your "Bro" nor am I a "dude", etc.

I am simply pointing out to the poster that when you provide misleading information and ask for comments, why would you be surprised when the comments are not what you expect?
Sir Wetcoaster, would you pretty please refrain from hijacking the thread with convoluted semantics arguments over trivial, inconsequential and essentially moot points?

I'm not sure where you get Hartnell is slow from, he's about as fast as Bernier is, which is what you can expect from players like him (or Clowe/Malone, and others in the same mold). Hartnell is the player Gillis was hoping Bernier would become as I alluded to in the thread on the main board, and he's exactly what this team needs - size, grit and snarl in the top 6.

I'd do it.

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Old
12-23-2009, 03:15 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
Sir Wetcoaster, would you pretty please refrain from hijacking the thread with convoluted semantics arguments over trivial, inconsequential and essentially moot points?

I'm not sure where you get Hartnell is slow from, he's about as fast as Bernier is, which is what you can expect from players like him (or Clowe/Malone, and others in the same mold). Hartnell is the player Gillis was hoping Bernier would become as I alluded to in the thread on the main board, and he's exactly what this team needs - size, grit and snarl in the top 6.

I'd do it.
When we have the best PK in the league then I'd consider it and even then probably not. Hartnell is a meathead and we've got enough dumb players on this team.

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Old
12-23-2009, 03:15 PM
  #53
Harold Druken
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
To Van
Hartnell
Coburn

To PHI
Bieksa
Schneider
Bernier

Would you do it ? all the Flyers fan on the main board like it.
Well I guess they would like it! That is a gross trade for the canucks.

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Old
12-23-2009, 03:58 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
Sir Wetcoaster, would you pretty please refrain from hijacking the thread with convoluted semantics arguments over trivial, inconsequential and essentially moot points?

I'm not sure where you get Hartnell is slow from, he's about as fast as Bernier is, which is what you can expect from players like him (or Clowe/Malone, and others in the same mold). Hartnell is the player Gillis was hoping Bernier would become as I alluded to in the thread on the main board, and he's exactly what this team needs - size, grit and snarl in the top 6.

I'd do it.
I did not hijack the thread, I simply pointed out how the OP changed his frame of reference from his original post.

I disagree with your assessment of Hartnell - he is slow. And undisciplined. And he is not a centre. And his cap hit is twice that of Bernier. And his contract runs through 2012-13.

Any meagre positive attributes are significantly outweighed by his significant negative attributes.

Hartnell is the last thing the Canucks need IMHO.

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Old
12-23-2009, 04:06 PM
  #55
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I understand all of the "Our PK is garbage", but we are one of the better defensive teams in the league. One major reason the PK is failing is due to the spaghetti sticks many pk'ers seem to have (mainly Johnson, can't clear the puck for the life of him).

4.2m is excessive for Hartnell, and it's not like he would fix all of our problems. If you get Hartnell where do you put Samuelson and Grabner? What is the chemistry fails? Our fourth line needs to lay the body more, and it would be nice to have a tank of a 3rd line center providing grit.

There are better options for grit, and it wouldn't hurt if the defensemen would lay the body more often.

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Old
12-23-2009, 06:38 PM
  #56
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Hartnell isnt even the best player in this deal. Bieksa is, despite his current struggles.

Hartnell isnt all that much of an upgrade over Bernier IMO. I think Bernier can get to his level pretty soon.

Coburn....meh.

We are getting fleeced here.

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Old
12-23-2009, 06:57 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by rye&ginger View Post
Hartnell isnt even the best player in this deal. Bieksa is, despite his current struggles.

Hartnell isnt all that much of an upgrade over Bernier IMO. I think Bernier can get to his level pretty soon.

Coburn....meh.

We are getting fleeced here.
That would be my assessment as well (and Hartnell carries twice the cap hit over a longer period) - hence the OP saying all the Flyers fans were in favour.

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Old
12-24-2009, 11:42 PM
  #58
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how do you guys feel about Carter and Parent for Kesler and Bieksa?

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Old
12-24-2009, 11:47 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by flyer6 View Post
how do you guys feel about Carter and Parent for Kesler and Bieksa?
Noper Kesler isn't going anywhere.

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Old
12-25-2009, 04:21 AM
  #60
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I'm not so sure about that if Carter is on the table. I'm not sure cap hits etc (and it is too much of a pain to look them up on my blackberry) but that deal seems pretty fair value wise (not too sure how Parent's development is coming along though). I don't think either team would want to move their centre, but Carter is one of the few semi-realistic options who I would move Kes for.
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Old
12-25-2009, 10:43 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by alternate View Post
I'm not so sure about that if Carter is on the table. I'm not sure cap hits etc (and it is too much of a pain to look them up on my blackberry) but that deal seems pretty fair value wise (not too sure how Parent's development is coming along though). I don't think either team would want to move their centre, but Carter is one of the few semi-realistic options who I would move Kes for.
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I'd move Kesler is a second for Richards, despite his cap hit being much bigger... he's the type of player that would be perfect fit on this team, in Kesler's place.

I wouldn't deal Kesler for Carter. IMO Kesler is a much better fit on this team overall. Carter would be a very frustrating player in this market because when he's not scoring (and he hasn't been this season), he's not a player that does a lot of the little things. He is not aggressive at all - not like Kesler, isn't a guy who's going to match-up against the opposition's top lines and shut them down, isn't going to be that key PK forward, and won't bring a lot of grit or sandpaper to this team. Flyer fans have already said as much about Carter's game - and why many are frustrated with his performance and why he may be on the trade block to begin with.

With the top line being built around the Sedins, IMO having a 2nd line built around Kesler is the perfect balance. Carter does not provide that balance.

He's a solid goal-scorer who's struggling this season... Better offensive player though than Kesler is, although his numbers may be better this year, Carter is still expected to score much more. Still the rest of the game that Kesler brings, which Carter doesn't, is what makes him so valuable to this team. A guy like Richards is a better version of Kesler and would bring much the same things we need from Kesler, and why I'd make that trade... with Carter, I don't see the benefit of taking on his $5mill contract at Kesler's expense, who should extend for less than that, and again brings the type of game we need here.

When you look at this Canucks team, goal scoring hasn't been an issue with this team - which is the only thing that Carter really brings over Kesler... what they need more of is the intensity that Kesler provides, and even with him, they could still add more grit to their top 6, something that they will lose with a Kesler for Carter swap. On this team, I'd prefer to stick with Kesler.

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Old
12-25-2009, 10:56 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
I'd move Kesler is a second for Richards, despite his cap hit being much bigger... he's the type of player that would be perfect fit on this team, in Kesler's place.
Agreed, so to change up the proposal a bit, what about Richards, Parent, minor league goalie for Kesler, Bieksa, Schneider? Doubt Philly goes for that though.

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Old
12-25-2009, 11:00 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by CoHo777 View Post
Agreed, so to change up the proposal a bit, what about Richards, Parent, minor league goalie for Kesler, Bieksa, Schneider? Doubt Philly goes for that though.
I'd do that in a second... Richards though is not going to be moved... team captain, signed for 12 years there - he's a franchise player they are building around... to even get them to consider it, will take a huge overpayment (add Edler, Hodgson, etc) which won't be worth it for the Canucks.

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Old
12-25-2009, 11:05 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
I'd move Kesler is a second for Richards, despite his cap hit being much bigger... he's the type of player that would be perfect fit on this team, in Kesler's place.

I wouldn't deal Kesler for Carter. IMO Kesler is a much better fit on this team overall. Carter would be a very frustrating player in this market because when he's not scoring (and he hasn't been this season), he's not a player that does a lot of the little things. He is not aggressive at all - not like Kesler, isn't a guy who's going to match-up against the opposition's top lines and shut them down, isn't going to be that key PK forward, and won't bring a lot of grit or sandpaper to this team. Flyer fans have already said as much about Carter's game - and why many are frustrated with his performance and why he may be on the trade block to begin with.

With the top line being built around the Sedins, IMO having a 2nd line built around Kesler is the perfect balance. Carter does not provide that balance.

He's a solid goal-scorer who's struggling this season... Better offensive player though than Kesler is, although his numbers may be better this year, Carter is still expected to score much more. Still the rest of the game that Kesler brings, which Carter doesn't, is what makes him so valuable to this team. A guy like Richards is a better version of Kesler and would bring much the same things we need from Kesler, and why I'd make that trade... with Carter, I don't see the benefit of taking on his $5mill contract at Kesler's expense, who should extend for less than that, and again brings the type of game we need here.

When you look at this Canucks team, goal scoring hasn't been an issue with this team - which is the only thing that Carter really brings over Kesler... what they need more of is the intensity that Kesler provides, and even with him, they could still add more grit to their top 6, something that they will lose with a Kesler for Carter swap. On this team, I'd prefer to stick with Kesler.
I'd have to agree....if we were a team with a struggling offense I'd consider a Carter/Kesler trade but we need tenacious players who backcheck and know their way around the defensive zone. I'd do a Richards/Kesler deal most likely but it seems a bit redundant as they are very similar players and I'm not sure why the Flyers would do the deal.

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Old
12-26-2009, 12:52 PM
  #65
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You guys severly underrate Carters defensive game, he might not be as aggressive as kesler or richards but he is a very smart positioned player, a fast skater with a long stick who can cover alot of ground. And he plays close to 2 minutes a night on the Pk which he does very well. If he wasnt in a slump along with every other Flyer your opinion on him and this trade would be much much different

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Old
12-26-2009, 09:13 PM
  #66
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This part of that thread jumped out to me...

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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
You added Yan Sauve he's are best defenceman prospect,did you read the post in the other thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by icebank_miceelf View Post
You need to learn how to spell OUR.
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
are is not our

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