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Should the Rangers target Filatov?

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Old
12-27-2009, 03:21 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by GarretJoseph View Post
I think he can be had for a lower price than some of you guys are throwing around.

I'd move Higgins + a 3rd/2nd for him.
not sure i agree with this, but if thats all it takes, i'll drive to Higgins' doorstep right now and drive him to Columbus.

Were talking about a 19 year old kid playing at better than a point a game pace in the KHL, who scored 6 goals in 21 games in Columbus over 2 seasons and who was almost a point a game player as an 18 year old in the AHL.

He's a small kid, but he's got the speed to play with anyone in the league.

If the Jackets are willing to give him up for so little, they are frikkin retarded.

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12-27-2009, 03:34 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
not sure i agree with this, but if thats all it takes, i'll drive to Higgins' doorstep right now and drive him to Columbus.

You would have to dish out money for Filatov's plane ticket too.


I wouldnt mind to see Rangers try and acquire Filatov. He's got boatloads of talent but not sure how much BJs want in return.

Sangs + another solid prospect + 4th rounder for Filatov maybe.

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12-27-2009, 06:39 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Garfinkel1 View Post
That's tough. Without Girardi I dont know if this team makes the playoffs... Not because Girardi is so good but because we would be short on quality NHL D-men. And with Filatov gone till at least next season it's not something I want to explore.

Sangs, Girardi for Filatov + (1st or 2nd).. im not sure what's fair. Then call up Potter.

Or, Instead of calling up potter we can then trade that 1st or 2nd for a servicable D-man from a team looking for the T. Hall Sweepstakes!
I think that if we were to consider a Sangs/Gerardi offer we'd want back a body to lay D. Like you said, Filatov and a pick won't help us until next year, if we're lucky. But it's not like we're going anywhere this year. But the trade you proposed seems unbalanced to me, don't know why. Perhaps because the BJ's are throwing in a pick. To be honest, I think a 1st is a non-starter.

I just feel than Sanguinetti is not enough for a potential 1st line forward. We'd have to throw something more in the mix. With DZ's rapid development we can afford to move a player where the pool is deep; Defense.

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12-27-2009, 06:47 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovalchkin71 View Post
Roszival + Sanguinetti + Higgins and/or 2nd for Filatov + Tyutin/Methot and/or Huselius
I don't see BJ's ever giving us Tyutin back. But I think Rosy wouldn't be a bad fit dollar wise. He'd be a top 4 dman.

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12-27-2009, 06:51 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
not sure i'd do this, but pretty sure it would get the de. al done

roszival and dubinsky for filatov?

definitely wouldn't make this trade in season, but i think i'd do it come summer...
I don't see us moving Dubi under any circumstances. Who'd play center? Dreary is a waste of space, literally and figuratively. Prospal? Who knows if he'll be on the team next year. Although I can see our Dunce GM offering him a 3 year deal a $3m+.

I'd do Rosie and Higgins. Don't think that would tempt BJ's though.

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12-27-2009, 06:57 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jediprakNYR View Post
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,203134

If you noticed in Zherdev's interviews, he said that he was satisfied with his performance with the Rangers last year. The first half of the season I'd say everyone was satisfied, the rest no-body else. Zherdev had the potential of being a 90 point producer consistently, but never went that route.
If Filatov could produce 50-60 points I'd be happy. Gabby and Prospal will reach that level, but no one else on our team will.

I think 90 pts is a little high, 65-80 is about right.

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12-27-2009, 06:59 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darko View Post
You would have to dish out money for Filatov's plane ticket too.


I wouldnt mind to see Rangers try and acquire Filatov. He's got boatloads of talent but not sure how much BJs want in return.

Sangs + another solid prospect + 4th rounder for Filatov maybe.
This looks about right. Other than the BJ's need a Dman now. Not sure Sanguinetti is ready to provide what they need.

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12-27-2009, 09:44 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
I don't see us moving Dubi under any circumstances. Who'd play center? Dreary is a waste of space, literally and figuratively. Prospal? Who knows if he'll be on the team next year. Although I can see our Dunce GM offering him a 3 year deal a $3m+.

I'd do Rosie and Higgins. Don't think that would tempt BJ's though.
you'd have 5 mil in cap space opened to use on a center. or use part of it on a center and get a banger on the back end.

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12-27-2009, 10:36 AM
  #59
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I imagine that if the Jackets were to move Filatov, it would be for a young top four defensemen and a center prospect. I'd say something like Girardi, Werek, and a late pick would get it done. Girardi is a young guy that would go to a struggle Columbus blue line and have instant chemistry with his old D-partner Tyutin. And Werek is exactly the type of player that Hitch likes.. a hard-nosed, hard-working center prospect that has a pretty good shot and second line upside..

Let's say that was the deal on the table.. I would personally take it because Filatov is a phenomenal talent.. But I'm not so sure that Torts would let Sather make that trade.. He really relies on Girardi to play in a lot of different situations.. But who knows.. Now that Rozsival has been playing better, it may make Girardi expendable(in a deal for a great talent).

Hell, hopefully the jackets take Rozsival off out hands now that he's been playing better.

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12-27-2009, 11:48 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darko View Post
You would have to dish out money for Filatov's plane ticket too.
I work for an airline, ticket is covered.

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12-27-2009, 02:51 PM
  #61
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Can we please, PLEASE find a north american prospect at forward that possibly projects as a top liner? We have a few guys that are a couple of years+ to showing us what they've got, but no high end prospects.

We want to play Tortarella's system yet everyone keeps talking about a bunch of Russian players. Were you guys asleep at the wheel in Zherdev's days under Torts? There's a reason fringe 2nd liners like Callahan are better under Torts than imported talent like Zherdev.

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12-27-2009, 02:53 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salvage21 View Post
I imagine that if the Jackets were to move Filatov, it would be for a young top four defensemen and a center prospect. I'd say something like Girardi, Werek, and a late pick would get it done. Girardi is a young guy that would go to a struggle Columbus blue line and have instant chemistry with his old D-partner Tyutin. And Werek is exactly the type of player that Hitch likes.. a hard-nosed, hard-working center prospect that has a pretty good shot and second line upside..

Let's say that was the deal on the table.. I would personally take it because Filatov is a phenomenal talent.. But I'm not so sure that Torts would let Sather make that trade.. He really relies on Girardi to play in a lot of different situations.. But who knows.. Now that Rozsival has been playing better, it may make Girardi expendable(in a deal for a great talent).

Hell, hopefully the jackets take Rozsival off out hands now that he's been playing better.
I'd say you're delusional with that offer getting it done.

They may have experienced this bump in the road with Filatov but they're not stupid, they understand what kind of talent they have on their hands. I'd imagine a deal for Filatov probably starts with Staal or Del Zotto. Girardi's a fringe top 4, Werek's an unproven 2nd round pick.

And no way they take Roszy off our hands.

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12-27-2009, 02:54 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
If Filatov could produce 50-60 points I'd be happy. .
I doubt everyone else would be. If you show that kind of talent our fanbase's expectations go through the roof.

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12-27-2009, 02:57 PM
  #64
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I question Filatov's commitment to truly want to be successful in North America if he pretty much bargained his way to go play in the KHL simply so he would be making more than his $85,000 in the AHL. Playing in the KHL isn't going to help him get to the NHL as much as playing in the AHL would, IMO. While I'm sure there's room for debate since he'd be playing against a lot of former NHLer's, the style of that league is nothing like the NHL while the AHL is very similar.

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12-27-2009, 03:09 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Can we please, PLEASE find a north american prospect at forward that possibly projects as a top liner? We have a few guys that are a couple of years+ to showing us what they've got, but no high end prospects.

We want to play Tortarella's system yet everyone keeps talking about a bunch of Russian players. Were you guys asleep at the wheel in Zherdev's days under Torts? There's a reason fringe 2nd liners like Callahan are better under Torts than imported talent like Zherdev.

Zherdev isn't an accurate portrayal of all non North American players. I suppose you want to get rid of Gaborik, Prospal and Anisimov while we're at it? They're all imported players and are struggling under Torts and his brilliant system, right?

If Tortorella can't coach players from outside North America, he doesn't belong anywhere near the bench of an NHL team.

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12-27-2009, 03:35 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Zherdev isn't an accurate portrayal of all non North American players. I suppose you want to get rid of Gaborik, Prospal and Anisimov while we're at it? They're all imported players and are struggling under Torts and his brilliant system, right?

If Tortorella can't coach players from outside North America, he doesn't belong anywhere near the bench of an NHL team.
I'm not suggesting Torts can't coach non North Americans. Gaborik, Prospal, and Anisimov play more of a North American style game than Eastern Euro/Russian game. They play a north-south game, close to Torts' style.

The elite russian type players this board seems so interested in acquiring like Kovalchuk, Filatov, etc. are not players that typically fit in to Tortarella's grand scheme of things. That's all I'm saying.

There are a lot more Russian/Eastern Europe players that fit the Zherdev mold (sometimes play "lazy", don't exactly play a solid defensive game, aren't great forecheckers...pretty much just danglers/snipers without much else to their game) than there are guys like Gaborik, Anisimov, etc.

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12-27-2009, 03:37 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
I question Filatov's commitment to truly want to be successful in North America if he pretty much bargained his way to go play in the KHL simply so he would be making more than his $85,000 in the AHL. Playing in the KHL isn't going to help him get to the NHL as much as playing in the AHL would, IMO. While I'm sure there's room for debate since he'd be playing against a lot of former NHLer's, the style of that league is nothing like the NHL while the AHL is very similar.
KHL is a better league than the AHL, the problem is, you cant come up and down once you go to the KHL. If hes only going there for 1 year, the KHL could be great for his development, especially since hes tearing it apart with the numbers hes putting up (PPG in a league where they dont give out secondary assists is amazing for a kid that young)

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12-27-2009, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
I'm not suggesting Torts can't coach non North Americans. Gaborik, Prospal, and Anisimov play more of a North American style game than Eastern Euro/Russian game. They play a north-south game, close to Torts' style.

The elite russian type players this board seems so interested in acquiring like Kovalchuk, Filatov, etc. are not players that typically fit in to Tortarella's grand scheme of things. That's all I'm saying.

There are a lot more Russian/Eastern Europe players that fit the Zherdev mold (sometimes play "lazy", don't exactly play a solid defensive game, aren't great forecheckers...pretty much just danglers/snipers without much else to their game) than there are guys like Gaborik, Anisimov, etc.

Kovalchuk is the antithesis of what you're talking about. Even Filatov can play in traffic. Zherdev's problem was never his style, it was his lack of self motivation. All-world talent, but he doesn't have the head to make it happen.

Plenty of Eastern European / Russian players have adjusted well to the NA game and can play the "Torts style" which is little more than a puck possession offense.

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12-27-2009, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Can we please, PLEASE find a north american prospect at forward that possibly projects as a top liner? We have a few guys that are a couple of years+ to showing us what they've got, but no high end prospects.

We want to play Tortarella's system yet everyone keeps talking about a bunch of Russian players. Were you guys asleep at the wheel in Zherdev's days under Torts? There's a reason fringe 2nd liners like Callahan are better under Torts than imported talent like Zherdev.
Can we please, PLEASE grow brains and judge EACH player individually rather than assuming that because Nik Zherdev didn't fit "Torts' style" (I'd be more concerned with finding a way to get our players producing and consistently winning games than worrying about whether or not we're playing "Torts' hockey", by the way) no player of similar lineage will? Because, outside of 100% coincidentally having both been drafted by Columbus, one player has absolutely nothing to do with the other and can in no way be used as a benchmark for judging one another. The fact that a prospect needs to be North American to make you all comfortable with his "compete level" or commitment is absurd and the fact that you trace it all back to one year of Nik Zherdev even more so.

Besides anything else, a guy like Filatov is great for a puck possession system and would instantly be our second most talented option at forward. He's got vision, hands, patience and gamebreaking ability. A lot of things that we desperately need and, by all accounts, Filatov would much rather be playing in the NHL than the KHL.

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12-27-2009, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
I'm not suggesting Torts can't coach non North Americans. Gaborik, Prospal, and Anisimov play more of a North American style game than Eastern Euro/Russian game. They play a north-south game, close to Torts' style.

The elite russian type players this board seems so interested in acquiring like Kovalchuk, Filatov, etc. are not players that typically fit in to Tortarella's grand scheme of things. That's all I'm saying.

There are a lot more Russian/Eastern Europe players that fit the Zherdev mold (sometimes play "lazy", don't exactly play a solid defensive game, aren't great forecheckers...pretty much just danglers/snipers without much else to their game) than there are guys like Gaborik, Anisimov, etc.
Fedotenko is a Ukrainian who has a reputation for floating and being lazy, but he had his best years under Torts. And he was amazing in Tampa Bay's cup run, scoring 12 goals.

I'm not sure where this "Torts can't coach most Russian/Eastern European players" thing came from... because Zherdev had no points in the playoffs last year?!

If you look at Zherdev's point production, he had 13 points in 21 games under Torts. In his previous 21 games under Renney prior to Torts' hiring, he had 10 points in 21 games. Seems like Zherdev had a hot first half but slowed down a bit in the second half, and that the coaching change didn't really affect him as much as people think.

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12-27-2009, 04:57 PM
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i having both been drafted by Columbus, one player has absolutely nothing to do with the other and can in no way be used as a benchmark for judging one another. The fact that a prospect needs to be North American to make you all comfortable with his "compete level" or commitment is absurd and the fact that you trace it all back to one year of Nik Zherdev even more so.

Besides anything else, a guy like Filatov is great for a puck possession system and would instantly be our second most talented option at forward. He's got vision, hands, patience and gamebreaking ability. A lot of things that we desperately need and, by all accounts, Filatov would much rather be playing in the NHL than the KHL.[/QUOTE]

I feel your frustration, but why do you feel you need to apologize for a guy that co-led his team in scoring? Some guys get a hard-on bagging on certain players and nothing will change that. Right now there are 2 players on the Rangers with a chance to score over 50 points. I don't give a **** how much the other grunts sweat while not producing. End of story.

But again, stay on topic. The thread is to discuss what it would take to get a player like Filatov. Z is history, get over it.


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12-27-2009, 05:01 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
KHL is a better league than the AHL, the problem is, you cant come up and down once you go to the KHL. If hes only going there for 1 year, the KHL could be great for his development, especially since hes tearing it apart with the numbers hes putting up (PPG in a league where they dont give out secondary assists is amazing for a kid that young)
The KHL may be BETTER but the AHL prepares you better for the NHL.

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12-27-2009, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovalchkin71 View Post
Can we please, PLEASE grow brains and judge EACH player individually rather than assuming that because Nik Zherdev didn't fit "Torts' style" (I'd be more concerned with finding a way to get our players producing and consistently winning games than worrying about whether or not we're playing "Torts' hockey", by the way) no player of similar lineage will? Because, outside of 100% coincidentally having both been drafted by Columbus, one player has absolutely nothing to do with the other and can in no way be used as a benchmark for judging one another. The fact that a prospect needs to be North American to make you all comfortable with his "compete level" or commitment is absurd and the fact that you trace it all back to one year of Nik Zherdev even more so.

Besides anything else, a guy like Filatov is great for a puck possession system and would instantly be our second most talented option at forward. He's got vision, hands, patience and gamebreaking ability. A lot of things that we desperately need and, by all accounts, Filatov would much rather be playing in the NHL than the KHL.
The similarities don't just stop at being drafted by Columbus and being Russian. They're both top 10 picks(Z was 4th overall, Filatov 6th overall). They both didn't stick in the NHL as smoothly as they had hoped (given, Zherdev stuck but didn't exactly live up to high expectations, the jury's still out on Filatov, things still could've gone a lot better in his first taste of the NHL.)

Filatov was miserable in the NHL, and pretty much because he wasn't getting top 6 minutes and wasn't scoring. If this guy doesn't want to pay his dues, I'd question his attitude just like everyone questioned Zherdev's over somewhat mundane things.

Filatov is hardly CAPABLE of being a 3rd liner since his game in the defensive zone leaves much to be desired. His one way game was why things didn't go all that smooth under Hitchcock to begin with.


So I'm not just tying this together.

I'd just much rather model this team after teams that have had success recently, and they do not rely heavily on one-dimensional Russian players, which is what Filatov seems to be to me, and it's even what Kovalchuk is. Nowhere did I say all Russians are like that. Evgeny Malkin isn't your typical Russian player and I'm actually surprised with his defensive game. The majority are, though. Anisimov isn't, and I'm hoping Grachev can play well in his own end too. I already know Anisimov is capable of distributing the puck, playing two way hockey, and most importantly his head always appears to be in the game. When he's been demoted to the 4th line he just takes it in stride. He's mentally tough, which seems to be a rarity in eastern euro/russian players. I'd love for more players to break the stereotype but too often players live up to the stereotype. Until Filatov doesn't seem like a primadonna that isn't fully commited to doing whatever he needs to do to best suite him for the NHL, I'm not all that interested, especially if it means giving up high end prospects.

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12-27-2009, 05:23 PM
  #74
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I would think the Jackets would be looking for help down the middle if they trade Filatov which means they would probably target Dubinsky, Anisimov or Stepan. Doubtful the Rangers give up any of those three seeing as though Drury's contract will be over sooner than later.

If they didn't ask for a center I'm sure they would want a package of Grachev and Sanguinetti which makes no sense for the Rangers. This team needs size to go with talent as it is. Grachev has not turned heads in the AHL so far but his size and skill set isn't in question.

I would think the Rangers would be looking for more of a big, sure thing 25-30 goal wing who isn't ancient and making a on of money. Not easy to find. In fact, they might not be able to find that. Despite being in division. Hartnell might be a guy the Rangers could acquire sending a defenseman back the other way.

I still think Mueller to the Rangers will happen if the Yotes will take Kotalik back in the deal along with a defenseman prospect.

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12-27-2009, 05:44 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shootthepuckfool View Post
I would think the Jackets would be looking for help down the middle if they trade Filatov which means they would probably target Dubinsky, Anisimov or Stepan. Doubtful the Rangers give up any of those three seeing as though Drury's contract will be over sooner than later.

If they didn't ask for a center I'm sure they would want a package of Grachev and Sanguinetti which makes no sense for the Rangers. This team needs size to go with talent as it is. Grachev has not turned heads in the AHL so far but his size and skill set isn't in question.
We don't have strength down the middle. Our "strength" is depth of defensive prospects. Sending Dubi or AA is a step back, IMO. I honestly think Rosie would be a solid pickup for BJs. But the Rangers would have to sweeten the pot and take back salary.

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