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Should the Rangers target Filatov?

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Old
12-27-2009, 10:58 PM
  #76
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NO WAY, this guy is the exact opposite of the type of players we should be building this team around.

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12-27-2009, 11:45 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
I wouldn't waste my time on numbskulls like him/her. You'll never be able to talk sense to him/her. I've spent the better part of two years fighting that fight with anti-euro, anti-Russian hockey fans. While I LOVE rock'em sock'em hockey I'll take skill every time.

Luckily they're in the minority so it's best to not rise to the bait.
So you'd prefer to chase after prospects/players that don't believe in the North American legal system? That's what we're talking about. What point is there in signing players who have no intention of honoring their contracts?

Its got nothing to do with the crap you mention - its simply factual evidence. Radulov unilitarily breached his contract - argue that point, boys.

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Old
12-28-2009, 12:58 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
NO WAY, this guy is the exact opposite of the type of players we should be building this team around.
offensive dynamos who can actually put the puck in the net?

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Old
12-28-2009, 01:27 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
The similarities don't just stop at being drafted by Columbus and being Russian. They're both top 10 picks(Z was 4th overall, Filatov 6th overall). They both didn't stick in the NHL as smoothly as they had hoped (given, Zherdev stuck but didn't exactly live up to high expectations, the jury's still out on Filatov, things still could've gone a lot better in his first taste of the NHL.)

Filatov was miserable in the NHL, and pretty much because he wasn't getting top 6 minutes and wasn't scoring. If this guy doesn't want to pay his dues, I'd question his attitude just like everyone questioned Zherdev's over somewhat mundane things.
Filatov was miserable in the NHL because Hitchcock never wanted him on the team and didn't want the CBJ organization to draft him. Filatov shouldn't have been playing on the 4th line, ever. Playing a kid like Filatov on a grind line isn't asking him to pay his dues, it's wasting his talent and asking him to produce with guys like Jared Boll and Michael Blunden on his line. There's no question that Filatov would get better minutes and linemates in NY; a line of Filatov, Anisimov and Lisin would be three talented young Russians that could probably put up some decent numbers. Filatov would be great for this organization and would come cheaper now than at any other time. He's definitely the kind of player that, at only 19 years old and given his lowered current value, you roll the dice on if you have the chance, especially if you're top 6 basically has 5 open spots for ANYONE who can start putting pucks in the net, or helping others to do so.

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Old
12-28-2009, 01:28 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by benneyb View Post
So you'd prefer to chase after prospects/players that don't believe in the North American legal system? That's what we're talking about. What point is there in signing players who have no intention of honoring their contracts?

Its got nothing to do with the crap you mention - its simply factual evidence. Radulov unilitarily breached his contract - argue that point, boys.
Nikita Filatov is not named Alex Radulov. Argue that point.

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Old
12-28-2009, 08:17 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by benneyb View Post
So you'd prefer to chase after prospects/players that don't believe in the North American legal system? That's what we're talking about. What point is there in signing players who have no intention of honoring their contracts?

Its got nothing to do with the crap you mention - its simply factual evidence. Radulov unilitarily breached his contract - argue that point, boys.
It's a good thing North Americans honor their own contracts.

Messier's First Holdout: Messier missed the first three weeks of Edmonton's 1987 training camp in a contract dispute with the Oilers front office.

Holdout that led to his trade to NYR:
New York was where he wanted to be and Messier raised his hand in a victory sign today when he was first introduced. His holdout had finally forced Oilers General Manager Glen Sather to settle for less, perhaps, than he had wanted. It had allowed Smith to acquire a nine-time National Hockey League All-Star, after an extended poker game with Sather in which players and money kept changing piles.

Holdout in 1994 at the beginning of the season.

A word of advise: Sometimes it is best to stay mum and have peolple think you are a xenophobic simpleton than to open your mouth and prove it beyond the shadow of a doubt.

Stay on topic! This is the typical anti-Russian bias with the "Lazy" label added to unmotivated, do not honor contracts creeping into every thread. IMO the best players in the league are Russians or Europeans. I prefer talented hockey players to grunts every time. That's my OPINION.


Last edited by HoosierDaddy: 12-28-2009 at 08:24 AM.
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Old
12-28-2009, 08:49 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfinkel1 View Post
Ala Bobby Ryan...



Yeah. This team would be much higher in the standings if we kept him.
Trying to guage wether or not you are joking with the Bobby Ryan comment.

Considering he's on pace for his 2nd 30+ goal season in only his 2nd full season in the NHL.

He could be a bit meaner, but he can grow into being an ornery player later.

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Old
12-28-2009, 09:00 AM
  #83
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I'm thinking that if the Columbus Blue Jackets need defence.

Maybe the guy we should be looking at is Brassard instead of Filatov.

Considering they would be taking a risk by moving him, I would think that the following offer would be something that they would require to get a deal done.

Sanguinetti, Stepan and the NYR 2nd in 2010

Considering their lack of depth down the middle, I doubt they do it, but I would think the offer would get them thinking.

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Old
12-28-2009, 09:08 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
It's a good thing North Americans honor their own contracts.

Messier's First Holdout: Messier missed the first three weeks of Edmonton's 1987 training camp in a contract dispute with the Oilers front office.

Holdout that led to his trade to NYR:
New York was where he wanted to be and Messier raised his hand in a victory sign today when he was first introduced. His holdout had finally forced Oilers General Manager Glen Sather to settle for less, perhaps, than he had wanted. It had allowed Smith to acquire a nine-time National Hockey League All-Star, after an extended poker game with Sather in which players and money kept changing piles.

Holdout in 1994 at the beginning of the season.

A word of advise: Sometimes it is best to stay mum and have peolple think you are a xenophobic simpleton than to open your mouth and prove it beyond the shadow of a doubt.

Stay on topic! This is the typical anti-Russian bias with the "Lazy" label added to unmotivated, do not honor contracts creeping into every thread. IMO the best players in the league are Russians or Europeans. I prefer talented hockey players to grunts every time. That's my OPINION.
Just so we are all on the same page and comparing Apples to Apples

Messier in 87 and 90 didn't have a contract in place and was WELL within his rights to hold out. The Rangers signed him to a long term deal when he was traded here.

A clause in the contract allowed for a Re-Negotiation of the contract if they Rangers won the cop. He opted to re-negotiate after the Rangers won the cup and for all intents and purposes was without a contract again in 94.

Witholding your services while NOT having a contract in place is VERY VERY different than what Radulov did.

As much as you want to prove your point, you need to make sure that the example you use doesn't discredit your point.

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Old
12-28-2009, 10:01 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Just so we are all on the same page and comparing Apples to Apples

Messier in 87 and 90 didn't have a contract in place and was WELL within his rights to hold out. The Rangers signed him to a long term deal when he was traded here.

A clause in the contract allowed for a Re-Negotiation of the contract if they Rangers won the cop. He opted to re-negotiate after the Rangers won the cup and for all intents and purposes was without a contract again in 94.

Witholding your services while NOT having a contract in place is VERY VERY different than what Radulov did.

As much as you want to prove your point, you need to make sure that the example you use doesn't discredit your point.
Fair enough, but the poster went on his own tangent about honoring contracts. What Radulov did was unprecedented, but completely OT. What many North Americans fail to realize is that not honoring contracts is not unique to Russians. If this topic were interesting I would spend time finding North American equivalents, but it's not.

The thread was/is about getting a read on what others think of going after Filatov. It was highjacked by the Russian hating xenophobes. First Zherdev and then Radulov haters weighed in as if all Russians were one person.

Filatov would be the 2nd most talented player in the Ranger Organization.

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Old
12-28-2009, 10:13 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I'm thinking that if the Columbus Blue Jackets need defence.

Maybe the guy we should be looking at is Brassard instead of Filatov.

Considering they would be taking a risk by moving him, I would think that the following offer would be something that they would require to get a deal done.

Sanguinetti, Stepan and the NYR 2nd in 2010

Considering their lack of depth down the middle, I doubt they do it, but I would think the offer would get them thinking.
That package for Brassard? Holy overpayment Batman!

Brassard has looked good, but if I'm not mistaken, he's had a slow start to the season, both numbers wise and due to injuries.

Would I give up two of those three things for Brassard? Absolutely, he's a great player. But to give up an AHL defenseman with promise at the top of the league in points, Team USA's WJC captain, AND a 2nd round pick? It's a little much at this point, IMO.

EDIT: Not to mention, Brassard's value to Columbus is way higher than Filatov's at the moment. The Rangers would probably have better luck prying Filatov away than they would of trading for Columbus' most talented center.

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12-28-2009, 10:25 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
Fair enough, but the poster went on his own tangent about honoring contracts. What Radulov did was unprecedented, but completely OT. What many North Americans fail to realize is that not honoring contracts is not unique to Russians. If this topic were interesting I would spend time finding North American equivalents, but it's not.

The thread was/is about getting a read on what others think of going after Filatov. It was highjacked by the Russian hating xenophobes. First Zherdev and then Radulov haters weighed in as if all Russians were one person.

Filatov would be the 2nd most talented player in the Ranger Organization.
this. Filatov seems to not be wanted by his organization, which is completely baffling. he seems like a kid who badly wants to play in the nhl, but the bj's are not a good fit.

man i would love to trade for this kid...imho you can pencil him in for 35/35 in his prime.

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12-28-2009, 12:00 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
That package for Brassard? Holy overpayment Batman!

Brassard has looked good, but if I'm not mistaken, he's had a slow start to the season, both numbers wise and due to injuries.

Would I give up two of those three things for Brassard? Absolutely, he's a great player. But to give up an AHL defenseman with promise at the top of the league in points, Team USA's WJC captain, AND a 2nd round pick? It's a little much at this point, IMO.

EDIT: Not to mention, Brassard's value to Columbus is way higher than Filatov's at the moment. The Rangers would probably have better luck prying Filatov away than they would of trading for Columbus' most talented center.
Brassard, in my opinion, is worth that.

Maybe I am under-estimating Stepan a bit here, but I am a skeptic when it comes to seeing Stepan translating his playmaking abilities from the NCAA level to the Pro's.

Sanguinetti is still a nice prospect, but he with a 2nd won't get it done considering that organizational depth down the middle for Columbus is shallow.

Personally speaking, if I'm Columbus I'm not sure I take that offer. Here they are, losing the only NHL player in the deal. All they get back is the promise that either player can be as good (tomorrow) as the player they are trading today.

It may be easier to pry Filatov, but it still leavs the team with a gaping hole at Center.

If there's a deal to be made, the focus should be on strengthening that significant organzational weakness.

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Old
12-28-2009, 12:05 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
this. Filatov seems to not be wanted by his organization, which is completely baffling. he seems like a kid who badly wants to play in the nhl, but the bj's are not a good fit.

man i would love to trade for this kid...imho you can pencil him in for 35/35 in his prime.
Actually, I see quite the opposite from that situation.

He seems like a teenager that feels hes entitled to top 6 NHL minutes. He neither wants to accept a stint in the AHL or put in the grunt work on the lower lines in the NHL to round out his game.

His sense of entitlement is a big red flag.

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12-28-2009, 12:08 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by SML View Post
How many lazy Russian reclamation projects are we going to take on before we stop messing with them? No thanks.
For every lazy Russian there was, I can bet you with at least two CAN/US early fading stars. The way you judge it, Joe Thornton is lazy too.

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12-28-2009, 12:11 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
Fair enough, but the poster went on his own tangent about honoring contracts. What Radulov did was unprecedented, but completely OT. What many North Americans fail to realize is that not honoring contracts is not unique to Russians. If this topic were interesting I would spend time finding North American equivalents, but it's not.

The thread was/is about getting a read on what others think of going after Filatov. It was highjacked by the Russian hating xenophobes. First Zherdev and then Radulov haters weighed in as if all Russians were one person.

Filatov would be the 2nd most talented player in the Ranger Organization.
Agreed.

I like that kid alot. Would like to see him add about 20 pounds and if they took Sangs and a 2nd, I'd do the deal in a heartbeat.

However, since our need is more of the Center position, I'd prefer to go after the better player (my opinion) in Brassard.

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12-28-2009, 12:25 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Actually, I see quite the opposite from that situation.

He seems like a teenager that feels hes entitled to top 6 NHL minutes. He neither wants to accept a stint in the AHL or put in the grunt work on the lower lines in the NHL to round out his game.

His sense of entitlement is a big red flag.
I'm not sure if it's a sense of entitlement, I just think it's another example of the divide between the NHL game (especially when Hitch is as the helm) and the European/Russian style. I don't agree with Hitchcock's handling of Filatov, or Zherdev for that matter. Sometimes you just need to let a kid do his thing and worry about the defense as he gets older. For a kid who's game revolves around creativity, it's bound to be difficult to have "defense first" shoved down his throat. I can't imagine Kovalchuk, Ovechkin, etc, fairing any better if they were subjected to the same thing when they first started.

The problem is that Columbus doesn't need the offense immediately with guys like Nash, Voracek, Brassard, Huselius, Vermette, etc, in their lineup. He's not going to bump those guys until Hitchcock feels he's competent enough defensively. The Rangers, on the other hand, need offense badly and could afford the lapses in defense provided the production is there.

I also think Filatov would benefit from an Eastern European mentor on his team. Columbus is heavy on NA players AFAIK, and it's gotta be tough on the kid, just like it was with Zherdev until Fedorov arrived. I know Gaborik isn't Russian, but they're similar players. He'd also have Anisimov and Grachev in the organization. Who knows, he might be more receptive to going to the AHL if he knows Grachev is there too.

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Old
12-28-2009, 01:23 PM
  #93
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Grachev Anisimov Filatov


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Old
12-28-2009, 01:36 PM
  #94
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From IIHF.com [Link]

Quote:
“I’m happy about everything in Moscow and I can easily imagine staying there,” Filatov said about his plans for next season. “If I feel that the situation in Columbus will be the same as this year and nothing changes, I won't even think about going back to Columbus.”
Certainly isn't helping his trade value for Columbus.

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Old
12-28-2009, 03:53 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Kovalchkin71 View Post
Nikita Filatov is not named Alex Radulov. Argue that point.
If you'd bothered to read my post properly, you would see I mentioned Radulov specifically as the problem. I don't know enough about Filatov to comment on him.


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Old
12-28-2009, 04:25 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
Grachev Anisimov Filatov

Thats a very balanced line if they all pan out to their potential.

Size, speed, defense, tenacity... all have great hands.

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12-28-2009, 04:27 PM
  #97
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So is this pure speculation or are there feelers out there?

Too lazy to read the thread.

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12-28-2009, 04:33 PM
  #98
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Filatov would be amazing here.

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12-28-2009, 04:34 PM
  #99
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So is this pure speculation or are there feelers out there?

Too lazy to read the thread.
Speculation.

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12-28-2009, 04:38 PM
  #100
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im gonna speculate that we do not end up acquiring filatov.

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