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12-29-2009, 01:54 PM
  #26
FlyHigh
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He's having a bit tougher time with the "wall" than I thought he would, but he's still making solid plays and being responsible defensively. He has a couple shifts every game where you go "whoa" but he needs to start turning those shifts into chances, goals, and points.

Another factor that people have mentioned is that he's spent a lot of time with Powe, Asham, Pyorala, etc. recently and hasn't gotten PP time, so obviously it's going to be harder for him to get lots of points playing with grinders.

He still hasn't looked out of place though IMO which would be the biggest red flag. Right now, he's a very solid 3rd liner who's pretty good defensively, just needs to add more offensive consistency to his game and that will come as he adjusts to this level and to the NHL grind.

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12-29-2009, 02:04 PM
  #27
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I still think the best line we could do for Giroux and JVR to get more points is for Giroux to center JVR and Legein. Speed and skill has never looked so terrifying and good.

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12-29-2009, 02:14 PM
  #28
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JVR doesn't look like he is getting embarrassed. He looks like a rookie playing on a team whose veterans have had their heads up their ***** for the better part of two months. JVR will rebound as the team rebounds. Hell, half of his problem is probably conditioning and that's something that he will get here just as well as he'd get it in the AHL. I'm not against AHL seasoning at all, but I think a guy like JVR is at risk of learning bad habits down there that don't translate to the big boy game. And it's not like he's on the 4th line getting Cote minutes. I do hope he gets back up to the 13 to 14 minute mark eventually. Maybe some playing time with Richards.

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12-29-2009, 04:35 PM
  #29
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If you have to pore through your AHL roster to replace a guy, then the guy should stay in the NHL.

I doubt it is "The Wall" - he's been a non-factor for 10-15 games now. Do guys hit walls at game 25? Maybe, but seems a bit soon.

Being a kid in that locker room during the slump must have sucked hardcore.

To me, his legs look tired. Gotta take a lot of energy to lug that frame around, unlike Kane et al. I suspect he'll come back strong after the break comes and goes.

Or, all of this is moot because he's hurt.

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12-29-2009, 04:38 PM
  #30
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He's not on a scoring line, is the main problem. Powe nor Asham are playmakers. In fact, JVR would be the playmaker on that line. He probably needs a few more days off really. He was doing great with the college-esque schedule we had in October and November.

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12-29-2009, 04:42 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
He's not on a scoring line, is the main problem. Powe nor Asham are playmakers. In fact, JVR would be the playmaker on that line. He probably needs a few more days off really. He was doing great with the college-esque schedule we had in October and November.
That's true. Also, we will always have one offensive player as the odd man out. Having 7 top-6 players is nice for injuries but is frustrating when everyone is healthy. If we had another second line player, we could run 3 scoring lines because a third line of JVR + That Player would do fine because Powe or Asham wouldn't drag them down or hold them back very much.

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12-29-2009, 05:02 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
He's not on a scoring line, is the main problem. Powe nor Asham are playmakers. In fact, JVR would be the playmaker on that line. He probably needs a few more days off really. He was doing great with the college-esque schedule we had in October and November.
Wasnt Giroux playing with like Upshall/Powe/Asham last year and was putting up points? I dont really like that excuss. I just think that he is getting tired after playing all these games. Hes a rookie so it was bound to happen.

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12-29-2009, 05:06 PM
  #33
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Playing with grinders is not an excuse IMO. A few weeks ago when I had made this exact thread he was playing with IIRC Carter and Briere and still struggling. He's struggling right now. It is what it is. Unless he has tons of space he hasn't been doing much of anything.


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12-29-2009, 05:11 PM
  #34
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JVR's struggles = he's a rookie. He wasn't going to put up PPG games number this year under any circumstances, and the team-wide funk they were/are in surely didn't help. He'll be good for 40-50 points still and will improve every year. I'm not too worried.

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12-29-2009, 05:16 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
JVR's struggles = he's a rookie. He wasn't going to put up PPG games number this year under any circumstances, and the team-wide funk they were/are in surely didn't help. He'll be good for 40-50 points still and will improve every year. I'm not too worried.
As I said a few weeks ago the points, or lack thereof isn't my concern...he just isn't doing much of anything. He isn't a liability which is good, but I'm seeing him lose almost every race, and every puck battle. Very rarely do we see him doing the things that make him special which is be a creative passer.

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12-29-2009, 05:22 PM
  #36
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For all the talk of his struggles, don't forget that his ice time may have something to do with struggles in the defensive zone.

If JVR can't get it done in his own end, no way will Lavi give him more playing time.

Regards,
Rick

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12-30-2009, 12:02 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Maroon has played his way out of being a call up as of now...when you're a goal-scoring winger and you're not scoring goals in the AHL...

JVR has hit the wall to an extent, but he doesn't look out of place out there...I'm not sure why there is any need to send him down at this point. Let him work through it, and hopefully he'll catch a 2nd wind. The Olympic break should help him.
Agree. JVR has been taking some really good shots, hitting posts, creating chances for his linemates off the cycle, etc. He'll come around.

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12-30-2009, 10:49 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mypunkrock View Post
For all the talk of his struggles, don't forget that his ice time may have something to do with struggles in the defensive zone.

If JVR can't get it done in his own end, no way will Lavi give him more playing time.

Regards,
Rick
He's getting just about the same amount of ice time he was when he was a PPG player. Just quickly glancing he's probably a minute or two less a game. Not a huge difference.

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12-30-2009, 12:03 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
He's getting just about the same amount of ice time he was when he was a PPG player. Just quickly glancing he's probably a minute or two less a game. Not a huge difference.
And Gagne, Powe and Betts are back, so less PP and ES strengths.

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12-30-2009, 12:06 PM
  #40
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why dont we sent Giroux down too, he only has 4 more points then JVR in 3 more games. Clearly he is struggling as well

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12-30-2009, 12:52 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Wasnt Giroux playing with like Upshall/Powe/Asham last year and was putting up points? I dont really like that excuss. I just think that he is getting tired after playing all these games. Hes a rookie so it was bound to happen.
yeah but giroux is also used to this type of schedule. Jvr is not, and hes being put with grinders who get down and dirtier than some of the others
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Old
12-30-2009, 01:17 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
why dont we sent Giroux down too, he only has 4 more points then JVR in 3 more games. Clearly he is struggling as well
I figured this would come up and I almost just pointed it out earlier (and I know you're being sarcastic but it's a valid argument as well).

This is purely from my own observation and many of you may not agree, but when Giroux isn't putting up points he still looks great. He ALWAYS seems to be creating, winning puck battles, forechecking great. He just brings a lot to the game even when he isn't putting up points. IMO, JVR hasn't done that (or at least hasn't after his first 18ish games). If JVR isn't putting up points I'm barely noticing him. All I see him do anymore is lose races to a puck when he attempts to lean on a guy, stops his feet, and loses. I'm not seeing the creativity I saw before.

And as I will say over and over, it's not a knock on the guy. It is what it is.

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12-30-2009, 01:24 PM
  #43
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He's not really playing with guys who are likely to light the lamp or benefit in anyway from his passing. He's also only playing 10 minutes a game or so (he never really played much more than that either).

Homers trying to have him continue learning the NHL game while hoping he can still have wheels at playoff time.

I have no problem with it. There's nothing he's going to gain from playing more in the AHL that he can't in 10 minutes in the NHL.

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12-30-2009, 01:27 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
He's not really playing with guys who are likely to light the lamp or benefit in anyway from his passing. He's also only playing 10 minutes a game or so (he never really played much more than that either).

Homers trying to have him continue learning the NHL game while hoping he can still have wheels at playoff time.

I have no problem with it. There's nothing he's going to gain from playing more in the AHL that he can't in 10 minutes in the NHL.
I hear that however, I mentioned earlier; about 8-10 games ago he was playing with Carter and Briere IIRC and still looked exactly the same.

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12-30-2009, 01:35 PM
  #45
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I cant really get on JVR too much because who hasnt sucked in the last 15-20 games?
You can probably count the players on 1 hand.
As its been pointing out too he is a kid whos learning the NHL game and had to deal with a coaching change 20-odd games in, which in turn caused him to learn a new system.
Its hard enough for players to learn a new system on the fly but when its a rookie it is a alot to ask.
He still is good defensively and can hold his own out there and by no means should be sent down. He isnt going to learn anything in the AHL.

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12-30-2009, 01:42 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I figured this would come up and I almost just pointed it out earlier (and I know you're being sarcastic but it's a valid argument as well).

This is purely from my own observation and many of you may not agree, but when Giroux isn't putting up points he still looks great. He ALWAYS seems to be creating, winning puck battles, forechecking great. He just brings a lot to the game even when he isn't putting up points. IMO, JVR hasn't done that (or at least hasn't after his first 18ish games). If JVR isn't putting up points I'm barely noticing him. All I see him do anymore is lose races to a puck when he attempts to lean on a guy, stops his feet, and loses. I'm not seeing the creativity I saw before.

And as I will say over and over, it's not a knock on the guy. It is what it is.
I would estimate that at least once a game Giroux makes my jaw drop. It is a true joy watching his creativity, I wonder if this is how Avs fans felt when they were watching a young Forsberg?

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Old
12-30-2009, 01:51 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
I cant really get on JVR too much because who hasnt sucked in the last 15-20 games?
You can probably count the players on 1 hand.
As its been pointing out too he is a kid whos learning the NHL game and had to deal with a coaching change 20-odd games in, which in turn caused him to learn a new system.
Its hard enough for players to learn a new system on the fly but when its a rookie it is a alot to ask.
He still is good defensively and can hold his own out there and by no means should be sent down. He isnt going to learn anything in the AHL.
I'm with ya. I'm criticizing the kid yes, but I don't dislike him, nor do I think he's being a detriment. He's just struggling as most players do, especially rookies.

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12-30-2009, 01:56 PM
  #48
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The whole team struggled and I find he is struggling a bit with line-mates that aren't as offensively talented. Imagine if Ovy played with people as slow as Bundy and Hatcher. I know they are d-men, but just bear with the idea.

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12-30-2009, 02:20 PM
  #49
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The whole team struggled and I find he is struggling a bit with line-mates that aren't as offensively talented. Imagine if Ovy played with people as slow as Bundy and Hatcher. I know they are d-men, but just bear with the idea.
Seriosuly, what does Ovy have to do with anything?

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12-30-2009, 02:24 PM
  #50
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I hear that however, I mentioned earlier; about 8-10 games ago he was playing with Carter and Briere IIRC and still looked exactly the same.
Yeah but how poorly were they playing?

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