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Habs projected Cap / line-up in 2010-2011

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Old
12-26-2009, 03:24 PM
  #51
coolasprICE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeCammalleri View Post
If Gainey doesn't resign him, he is basically stating that he traded lats for nothing. Pouliot is an RFA, we will have him next year.
If he doesn't produce this season, than he may very start in Hamilton next season... too early to tell.

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Old
12-30-2009, 09:57 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Just trying to put some numbers together to see what the habs cap hit would be after resigning (or not) some of the rfa's / ufa's... 1st column is projected salary in mllions, 2nd column in ( ) is net increase.... Please let me know if I goofed up or missing info.

Plek 5.5 (+2.75)
Metro 2.0 (+1)
Pyatt 0
SK 1.2 (+.400)
Pouliot 0
Laps 1.0 (+.300)
Stewart 0
D'ags 0
Mara 100% won't resign
MAB 2.25 (+1.5)
Price 3.5 (+1.5)
Halak 2.2 (+1.5) *likely to be traded


Proposed line-up ..

AK - Plek - Cam
SK - Gomez - Gionta
Pac - Maxwell - Moen
MAB - Laps - White / Pyatt

Markov
Hamrlik
Spacek
Gill
Gorges
O'byrne
Subban

Price / Sanford or equivalent
Plek 5.145 (+2.395)
Metro 1.000 (=) 2 yrs
SK 0.7 (-0.100) one-way
Pouliot 0.845 (0.420) one-way
Laps 0.8 (+.113)
MAB 1.4 (+0.650) 2-3 yrs

Laraque traded ---> White 0.850 (-.650)
Dags not re-signed ---> Pyatt 0.5 (=) one-way
Stewart - stays in minors

Spacek traded ---> Subban 0.875 (-2.958)
Mara replaced by Leach or equivalent 0.5 (-1.175)
Price 2.4 (+0.200) short-term
Halak 2.4 (+1.625) 3 years

Total Cap change = 0.00



Proposed line-up ..

Cam - Plek - AK
Pouliot - Gomez - Gionta
Pac - Metro - SK
MAB - Laps - Moen
spare: Pyatt, White

Markov
Hamrlik
Gorges
Gill
O'byrne
Subban
spare: Leach or equivalent

Price / Halak

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Old
12-30-2009, 11:33 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Plek 5.145 (+2.395)
Metro 1.000 (=) 2 yrs
SK 0.7 (-0.100) one-way
Pouliot 0.845 (0.420) one-way
Laps 0.8 (+.113)
MAB 1.4 (+0.650) 2-3 yrs

Laraque traded ---> White 0.850 (-.650)
Dags not re-signed ---> Pyatt 0.5 (=) one-way
Stewart - stays in minors

Spacek traded ---> Subban 0.875 (-2.958)
Mara replaced by Leach or equivalent 0.5 (-1.175)
Price 2.4 (+0.200) short-term
Halak 2.4 (+1.625) 3 years

Total Cap change = 0.00



Proposed line-up ..

Cam - Plek - AK
Pouliot - Gomez - Gionta
Pac - Metro - SK
MAB - Laps - Moen
spare: Pyatt, White

Markov
Hamrlik
Gorges
Gill
O'byrne
Subban
spare: Leach or equivalent

Price / Halak
I see some problems.

1) Theres no way Metro signs for what he makes now. Hes having a career year.

2) Laraque traded without getting some other bad deal in return? I dont think so.

3) Kostitsyn jr will propably bolt for Russia if you lowballed him like that.

4) Spacek, our number two/three defenceman traded in order to keep powerplay specialist...

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Old
12-30-2009, 12:28 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Plek 5.145 (+2.395)
Metro 1.000 (=) 2 yrs
SK 0.7 (-0.100) one-way
Pouliot 0.845 (0.420) one-way
Laps 0.8 (+.113)
MAB 1.4 (+0.650) 2-3 yrs

Laraque traded ---> White 0.850 (-.650)
Dags not re-signed ---> Pyatt 0.5 (=) one-way
Stewart - stays in minors

Spacek traded ---> Subban 0.875 (-2.958)
Mara replaced by Leach or equivalent 0.5 (-1.175)
Price 2.4 (+0.200) short-term
Halak 2.4 (+1.625) 3 years

Total Cap change = 0.00



Proposed line-up ..

Cam - Plek - AK
Pouliot - Gomez - Gionta
Pac - Metro - SK
MAB - Laps - Moen
spare: Pyatt, White

Markov
Hamrlik
Gorges
Gill
O'byrne
Subban
spare: Leach or equivalent

Price / Halak
Metro will be looking for an increase, why would he sign a 2 year 2m if he is worth 1 year 1.5-2M (3rd line center that can score 15-20).

MAB at 1.4 is not going to happen either - he has proven himself this year and has shown that he can help the PP (1st in the league). His defensive blunders are the reason why he's not a 4 Million +, but I can see him fetching 2 - 2.5 easilly.

Laraque traded? Buyout maybe more likely - which has a cap hit.

Spacek - not sure there'll be any takers for his 3M + for 2 years, especially at his age. Besides, he's been "ok" at best this year so there's not much value in his pay.

Price will get more than 2.4 and Halak will not be here.

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Old
12-30-2009, 12:40 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Marksman View Post
I see some problems.

3) Kostitsyn jr will propably bolt for Russia if you lowballed him like that
He hasn't proven enough to earn more than the same salary he has now, BUT with a guarantee of NHL salary all year, no more periods of $65k per year as he has had every year until now.

If that's not good enough, we should look for another 3rd-4th liner with production of 11-12 goals per 80 games and amybe get a bit more size and grit out of him for the bottom two lines than Sergei provides.


Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Metro will be looking for an increase, why would he sign a 2 year 2m if he is worth 1 year 1.5-2M (3rd line center that can score 15-20).

MAB at 1.4 is not going to happen either - he has proven himself this year and has shown that he can help the PP (1st in the league). His defensive blunders are the reason why he's not a 4 Million +, but I can see him fetching 2 - 2.5 easilly.

Laraque traded? Buyout maybe more likely - which has a cap hit.

Spacek - not sure there'll be any takers for his 3M + for 2 years, especially at his age. Besides, he's been "ok" at best this year so there's not much value in his pay.

Price will get more than 2.4 and Halak will not be here.
Metro won't finish with more than about 13 goals now that his spot on the PP is lost to Gionta; he's not getting 15-20 goals AS A THIRD LINE C. A two-year deal at his age is very nice for him. If he walks, use the money for a late UFA season bargain (mid-Aug).

MAB 3 yrs at $1.4 would likely be ACCEPTED by him if offered now. If not accepted now, make it clear his PP time will be reduced as we start immediately to get used to a future without him.

Laraque might fetch a late pick at the deadline. He can also be McGillisized or he may retire. Do NOT waste cap space buying him out, he hasn't earned that token of respect.

Spacek should fetch a middling prospect or mid-round pick. That's all I would want for him, no need to squeeze lots of value out of a trade. We win two ways anyway: Subban gets onto the team, and we use the savings to pay Pleks and keep him long-term.

Based on a season that continues as it started to date, Price who is not subject to arbitration will not likely get more than what I listed. If he plays much better, then fine, pay him more, give him the #1 spot and take the necessary dollars from the backup's budget, while getting value for Halak in a trade.

IMO, Halak WILL stay if he is playing 35-45 games and earning $2.4 million on a secure 3-year contract.


Last edited by BaseballCoach: 12-30-2009 at 01:01 PM.
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Old
12-30-2009, 12:55 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Metro won't finish with more than about 13 goals now that his spot on the PP is lost to Gionta; he's not getting 15-20 goals AS A THIRD LINE C. A two-year deal at his age is very nice for him. If he walks, use the money for a late UFA season bargain (mid-Aug).

MAB 3 yrs at $1.4 would likely be ACCEPTED by him if offered now. If not accepted now, make it clear his PP time will be reduced as we start immediately to get used to a future without him.

Laraque might fetch a late pick at the deadline. He can also be McGillisized or he may retire. Do NOT waste cap space buying him out, he hasn't earned that token of respect.

Spacek should fetch a middling prospect or mid-round pick. That's all I would want for him, no need to squeeze lots of value out of a trade. We win two ways anyway: Subban gets onto the team, and we use the savings to pay Pleks and keep him long-term.

Based on a season that continues as it started to date, Price who is not subject to arbitration will not likely get more than what I listed. If he plays much better, then fine, pay him more, give him the #1 spot and take the necessary dollars from the backup's budget, while getting value for Halak in a trade.

IMO, Halak WILL stay if he is playing 35-45 games and earning $2.4 million on a secure 3-year contract.

1. Metro will finish the season with 13? He has 10 already! PP or not, he's getting 15-20. (half a season left!)

2. Why would the habs want to get use to a future without MAB considering that he's a big reason why we won games (4 game winners) and a big reason why our PP is number 1 in the league (see a pattern -> Souray, Streit, MAB = #1 PP). 1.4 M in the NHL is pure peanuts, and the fact that you have him placed on the 4th line on top of it suggests that his defensive liabilities will be less noticeable. He's a pp specialist - and the fact that he sucks defensively is a blessing in disguise as we are able to sign him in the 2-2.5 range.

3. Not sure any team has a reason to take on laraques cap hit - he has done and shown absolutely NOTHING to merit any interest. Hope I'm wrong.

4. I'm not sure Spacek is trade-able with his contract and age! Why do you assume we can get ANYTHING for him? He's been our worst ufa pick-up, teams want our good players, not our old bad / struggling ones with big contracts. Although, a strong 2nd half can change this reality.

5. And if "price plays much better" ? He's having a good season - I think goaltending is our strong point this season. His only weakness are the soft goals he let in just prior to Halak taking over in the past 5 games or so. If he plays the SAME way (and he resolves the soft goal / glove side issues) than he will be getting over 3M.

6. Halak wants to be a number 1, not a number 1a, or number 1b. Either Price or Halak are gone... I think BG will keep his favorite "pure bred".

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12-30-2009, 01:12 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Why would the habs want to get use to a future without MAB considering that he's a big reason why we won games (4 game winners) and a big reason why our PP is number 1 in the league (see a pattern -> Souray, Streit, MAB = #1 PP). 1.4 M in the NHL is pure peanuts, and the fact that you have him placed on the 4th line on top of it suggests that his defensive liabilities will be less noticeable. He's a pp specialist - and the fact that he sucks defensively is a blessing in disguise as we are able to sign him in the 2-2.5 range.
I don't know if you are suggesting to pay him $2.0-2.5M but if you are and he rejects this offer, then we are in the same boat as if he rejects the offer I am suggesting of 3 yrs $1.4M each - we have to get used to living without him.

If you think he will accept your offer, then you are really just saying, BC you should be willing to pay between $600k and $1.1M more than you have suggested. If I were forced to $2M it would be for ONE year, in that case. More than that, for me, I'll pass.

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12-30-2009, 01:18 PM
  #58
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If we could find a way to sign Kovalchuk

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Old
12-30-2009, 01:51 PM
  #59
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We don't NEED MAB, Spacek can play the PP, he's got a good 1 timer. Or maybe a young Dman with a shot can make the team (Subban, Weber).

Also Laraque better retire, that guy is a joke. He is not capable of playing at the NHL level anymore. If he wants to be stubborn and won't retire, play hardball with him and put him down in AHL. I know it's not Gainey's style, but this guy is realistically not a NHL calibre player anymore, you can't mess up the team and lose a guy like Plekanec because you don't want to be mean to Laraque.

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12-31-2009, 10:07 AM
  #60
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In order to get a 23 man roster and respond to our rosters needs meaning better physical presence on the lower lines and on defense, you basically need to shed 4M off the current roster.

That can only be attained by trading either Hamrlik, Spacek or Gill. MAB and Mara does not suffice in order to shed salary.

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12-31-2009, 10:16 AM
  #61
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Pleks is making me nervous... always be leary of the guy having a career year during a contract year...
queue Kovalev

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12-31-2009, 10:20 AM
  #62
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i dont know what the hell you guys are smoking but neither Metro nor MAB will EVER smell 2M a year. These are depth players that never even make more than 1M/year.

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12-31-2009, 10:54 AM
  #63
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What is missing in the analysis is that we will get a very good asset now when Halak is traded. This asset will cost some money in the scheme of things.

If you get Giroux from Philly, he will cost some dough.

This may be a homer type thought but what of : Halak and Pacioretty
for Giroux and Gagne ??

The huge complicating factor is paying Gomez $ 7.5 to basically be a 3rd liner.
( I sure hope he can score 8 goals this year so he costs us less than $ 1 million per
goal )

Gainey has really F'd us there ... and until 2014. With his contract that is the laughing stock of the league making him untradeable there isnt room for Cup Contending until maybe 2016 or 2017 at the earliest probably.

Get used to it.

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Old
12-31-2009, 10:58 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarto View Post
In order to get a 23 man roster and respond to our rosters needs meaning better physical presence on the lower lines and on defense, you basically need to shed 4M off the current roster.

That can only be attained by trading either Hamrlik, Spacek or Gill. MAB and Mara does not suffice in order to shed salary.
Hamrlik is an underrated STUD on D. Gill is a superior specialist, for PK and shutdown in key situations. NOt too overpaid at $2.25 per yr for 2 yrs. Spacek is kind of all-around D. Right now, he gives us exactly what Gorges gives, at 3.5 times the cost.

Spacek is the guy to move to make cap space. Let Subban take his place by October latest.

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12-31-2009, 11:21 AM
  #65
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i dont know what the hell you guys are smoking but neither Metro nor MAB will EVER smell 2M a year. These are depth players that never even make more than 1M/year.
this is true...smoke, lang, johnston...all these guys because of their age were signed - or not - very late in the UFA process and didn't make more than 1 mill...
that being said next year i think someone from the 'dogs becomes the 3rd line center-- maxwell or the swedish kid we signed with laps remaining as 4th line checking center

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12-31-2009, 11:47 AM
  #66
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Let's hope that the salary cap goes up substantially next summer. I know that a team like the Black Hawks are sure hoping it does because they're already way over the current cap as it is with only 15 players signed.

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12-31-2009, 11:49 AM
  #67
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Anyone who thinks Metro will get more than 1M is smoking some good stuff and I want some!

He is getting those stats this year because of PP time which he will not get anywhere else. He won't be getting much PP time now with Gionta returning.

Metro is 35 and will be 36 next year, he will be glad to just even get a contract at the end of the year!

Same for MAB. He loves it here and if not for the Habs, he would maybe be retired by now. MAB still has defensive problems and is not a good D, he is a PP specialist and that won't attrack that many offers if any. He scored 14 last year for Minnessota in the same role and was not offered a contract this summer.

Only in Mtl that average players are turned into overpaid superstars....

Metro = 1M max
MAB = 1.5M max

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12-31-2009, 11:53 AM
  #68
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We don't NEED MAB, Spacek can play the PP, he's got a good 1 timer.
I'm far from sold on Spacek's ability to be our MAB on the PP

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12-31-2009, 12:05 PM
  #69
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i dont know what the hell you guys are smoking but neither Metro nor MAB will EVER smell 2M a year. These are depth players that never even make more than 1M/year.
MAB is an offensive D-man who can play the 4th line. His defensive liabilities are more than compensated with his production - and as a forward his defensive liabilities are even less noticeable. He has one of the, or the, hardest shot in the NHL and will score 15 (possibly 20 with a Markov) and notch 40-50 points. 4 game winners - he's the guy we have on in the last minute of any game down by a goal....

You're telling me he's a max 1 million dollar guy?

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12-31-2009, 12:07 PM
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this is true...smoke, lang, johnston...all these guys because of their age were signed - or not - very late in the UFA process and didn't make more than 1 mill...
that being said next year i think someone from the 'dogs becomes the 3rd line center-- maxwell or the swedish kid we signed with laps remaining as 4th line checking center
I agree, it's almost useless to debate about Metro salary since it's very unlikely he'll even return

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12-31-2009, 12:14 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
MAB is an offensive D-man who can play the 4th line. His defensive liabilities are more than compensated with his production - and as a forward his defensive liabilities are even less noticeable. He has one of the, or the, hardest shot in the NHL and will score 15 (possibly 20 with a Markov) and notch 40-50 points. 4 game winners - he's the guy we have on in the last minute of any game down by a goal....

You're telling me he's a max 1 million dollar guy?
About that. I say 1.5M on a 1 year contract.

MAB had the same season last year with Minnessota and was not even offered a contract this summer.

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12-31-2009, 12:17 PM
  #72
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About that. I say 1.5M on a 1 year contract.

MAB had the same season last year with Minnessota and was not even offered a contract this summer.
Actually his numbers are better this year...

4 game winners,
on the ice in crucial moments,
6th d - or 4th line winger....

To me that's a 2 - 2.5 guy easy... we shall see, hope I'm wrong because I think he's an asset

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12-31-2009, 12:23 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Actually his numbers are better this year...

4 game winners,
on the ice in crucial moments,
6th d - or 4th line winger....

To me that's a 2 - 2.5 guy easy... we shall see, hope I'm wrong because I think he's an asset
I think we can get him for cheaper. He mentionned 2 days ago that playing in Mtl is a lot more fun than what he expected because of what some other players had said about Mtl. He even said that it took him a while to get here (Mtl), but now he has finally arrived and intands on staying.

We shall see! Hope I'm right, not for arguments sake, but for cap sake!

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12-31-2009, 12:31 PM
  #74
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I think we can get him for cheaper. He mentionned 2 days ago that playing in Mtl is a lot more fun than what he expected because of what some other players had said about Mtl. He even said that it took him a while to get here (Mtl), but now he has finally arrived and intands on staying.

We shall see! Hope I'm right, not for arguments sake, but for cap sake!
Give himi some relative security, at a low enough cap hit for his contract to be tradeable. 3 yrs $4.2M, even 4 years $5M.

It shows a commitment to a local player who is trying hard to help the team win, without almost breaking the bank like the commitment to Bouillon did.

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Old
12-31-2009, 12:41 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Give himi some relative security, at a low enough cap hit for his contract to be tradeable. 3 yrs $4.2M, even 4 years $5M.

It shows a commitment to a local player who is trying hard to help the team win, without almost breaking the bank like the commitment to Bouillon did.
The problem is that if another team is willing to give him, a PP specialist, 2 Million or not.

That team might have a lot of cap-space, and feel that a top PP is their missing element.

2 Mil is not a lot for a team, but a lot more for a player than the numbers we are suggesting.

Whether or not he likes it here, he'll take 4 M in 2 years elsewhere over 4 M in 3 here etc..

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