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Old
01-01-2010, 09:00 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
On a good team, he's a bottom-pairing D-man. As FlyLine stated earlier, aside from the quarter-season spurt a few seasons ago, I've seen nothing else that says he's anything more than that. And, you cannot give him $3 million per on a multi-year deal. He routinely gets beat to the outside, he's almost as bad as Rozsival handling the puck, and he makes at least one "WTF pass" a game. As much as Rozsival has his faults, and is severely overpaid, on his best days, he's a better D-man than Girardi can hope to be.

Well that's the thing jas I don't really think Rozsival is better--best days or not. The real problem we have on d stems from our two top earners who are not nearly good enough to justify what they're making. Because we don't have enough cap space we're going with 4 young d with various levels of experience. Those two top earners look very ordinary within the group. They don't stand out well at all. Is Girardi woth $3 mil?--not really but that wouldn't be nearly as bad a contract as what Rozsival and Redden are making. For one it's moveable. Rozsival's will be hard to move and Redden's is impossible to move without taking something really toxic back.

If I were to slot Girardi--he's a legit 4-5 guy on most teams. On a real contender he's a 5-6. On the Rangers he asked to do more than he probably should but again I look at Redden who has almost no offense these days and almost never plays physically and Rozsival who also plays shy at times and has definitely regressed since he signed his big contract as the bigger problem.

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01-01-2010, 09:14 AM
  #27
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Well that's the thing jas I don't really think Rozsival is better--best days or not. The real problem we have on d stems from our two top earners who are not nearly good enough to justify what they're making. Because we don't have enough cap space we're going with 4 young d with various levels of experience. Those two top earners look very ordinary within the group. They don't stand out well at all. Is Girardi woth $3 mil?--not really but that wouldn't be nearly as bad a contract as what Rozsival and Redden are making. For one it's moveable. Rozsival's will be hard to move and Redden's is impossible to move without taking something really toxic back.

If I were to slot Girardi--he's a legit 4-5 guy on most teams. On a real contender he's a 5-6. On the Rangers he asked to do more than he probably should but again I look at Redden who has almost no offense these days and almost never plays physically and Rozsival who also plays shy at times and has definitely regressed since he signed his big contract as the bigger problem.
Yes, in the broader picture, Girardi is a better buy for his contract. My point is, you can't compound the situation by overpaying another player. Besides the big three, you've got Kotalik's awful contract, (I've been consistent on this since the day he was signed), and the uselessness of Voros and Brashear. It all goes back to the off-season. The Gomez and Gaborik deals were top notch, and I was for the Prospal signing. But, everything else was wrong. Giving up a 3rd pick for Boyle, not bringing back Betts and Zherdev, signing Brashear and Kotalik, and even the Korpikoski for Lisin deal...nothing but re-arranging the decks on the Titanic.

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01-01-2010, 09:25 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
Yes, in the broader picture, Girardi is a better buy for his contract. My point is, you can't compound the situation by overpaying another player. Besides the big three, you've got Kotalik's awful contract, (I've been consistent on this since the day he was signed), and the uselessness of Voros and Brashear. It all goes back to the off-season. The Gomez and Gaborik deals were top notch, and I was for the Prospal signing. But, everything else was wrong. Giving up a 3rd pick for Boyle, not bringing back Betts and Zherdev, signing Brashear and Kotalik, and even the Korpikoski for Lisin deal...nothing but re-arranging the decks on the Titanic.
I agree with that. Girardi is moveable even at $3 mil though in a way that Rozsival and Redden will never be again. There's no point though in overpaying him and especially since he's not even going to be UFA. Staal is the guy that moves into the $3 mil + territory.

In a sense I don't worry so much about marginal players like Voros being overpaid because he can be sent to Hartford no problem at all--and he is what he is--he's not necessarily an underachiever and his contract doesn't do much damage to our cap in the overall picture. As for Zherdev he was an underachiever and I wasn't sorry to see him go--it's just that Kotalik is not a good replacement. Even so if Zherdev had gotten what he wanted it's likely there would have been 0 room for Prospal who has played well for us. I liked Korpikoski a lot though and probably would have kept him but both him and Lisin have yet to really prove they belong.

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01-01-2010, 10:14 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
Yes, in the broader picture, Girardi is a better buy for his contract. My point is, you can't compound the situation by overpaying another player. Besides the big three, you've got Kotalik's awful contract, (I've been consistent on this since the day he was signed), and the uselessness of Voros and Brashear. It all goes back to the off-season. The Gomez and Gaborik deals were top notch, and I was for the Prospal signing. But, everything else was wrong. Giving up a 3rd pick for Boyle, not bringing back Betts and Zherdev, signing Brashear and Kotalik, and even the Korpikoski for Lisin deal...nothing but re-arranging the decks on the Titanic.
While you are correct; it's easy to say now, hey, that was a mistake...

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01-01-2010, 10:38 AM
  #30
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While you are correct; it's easy to say now, hey, that was a mistake...

I said it the day he was signed. $3 million for three years for an average 32-year-old forward. You make that kind of commitment in this salary cap era to a player like Kotalik. The lesson of Matt Cullen was clearly forgotten.

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01-01-2010, 10:43 AM
  #31
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I don't understand the hate for Girardi, the kid blocks tons of shots, has a decent shot if they ever gave him powerplay time he may net some goals or some assists because he keeps his shot low and on net for deflections, he is usually in good position, he plays the body, and rarely gets caught up the ice

He does have faults, he is not the best outlet passer, he doesn't have great wheels, and is good for a turnover here and there, but his game is meant for a defense first team, put him on the devils and he may be a top pair defensemen

Every time he has a bad game people get all in a huff about him, is he a 3 million dollar defensemen, No way, but is rozy a 5 million d-man or redden a 6.5? Sather is the fool making these mistakes and than we as fans have to live with them, Girardi is a 3-4 defensemen, but he actually plays with heart and is homegrown, I'd like to keep him around while mdz, gilroy, and Mcdonagh get broken in and slowly girardi can be pushed to a 5-6 spot

our penalty kill without girardi would be a straight nightmare and as much as staal covers for girardi's lack of foot speed at times, girardi is usually the one bailing out his defense partners on 2 on 1's when they get caught pinching, blocking shots, or making the smart play up the boards

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01-01-2010, 10:54 AM
  #32
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lol...i just think he needs to sit for a game and this thread turned into a flame off, lmao

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01-01-2010, 10:58 AM
  #33
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lol...i just think he needs to sit for a game and this thread turned into a flame off, lmao
I think Rozy and redden should sit out a game or two first... But i went to the wolfpack game the other night, Heikken pinched on a powerplay and got burned for shortie, potter is not ready and sanguinetti was barely noticeable

if we sit someone i'd like to see Sauer get a shot, and honestly Nigel Williams impressed with good size, speed, and some good passes

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01-01-2010, 11:09 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by XthedoodX View Post
I think Rozy and redden should sit out a game or two first... But i went to the wolfpack game the other night, Heikken pinched on a powerplay and got burned for shortie, potter is not ready and sanguinetti was barely noticeable

if we sit someone i'd like to see Sauer get a shot, and honestly Nigel Williams impressed with good size, speed, and some good passes
Potter= career call up
Heikinen pinching, well it happens you get burned
Sangs is having a great year in HFT ask Squishy
Sauer should be in the NHL next year, i like the kid as a 5/6 right now...seems sound in his own end and is developing on moving the puck
Nigel needs to grow up from what i see posted in the HFT thread

What about the Russians (valenteko, et al)? don't see nothing in the prospects thread

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01-01-2010, 11:20 AM
  #35
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IMO, this is the question. Would you trade Girardi for a second round draft pick, or would you resign him for over 3,013,434 dollars? Because the compensation level if you offer less than that amount but more than 1.5m is a second round pick. The compensation if he signs for more than that is a first and a third round pick. I am fairly certain that everyone here takes the first and third if it's an option, but I don't think we would offer that much, and if we did, I don't see another team coming in to blow that offer away. So that's out. But say we offer 1.6-1.8 and someone comes in and offers 2.2, do you match or not, and if you don't, who are you replacing him with that's going to be making that kind of money that's as good or better?

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01-01-2010, 11:22 AM
  #36
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Are you kidding me? Have you not been watching these games? Besides Staal, Girardi is our only reliable stay-at-home Defenseman. The guy has been very consistent all year long, with the exception of the first 2 weeks of the season.

Watch the tapes and see how many odd man rushes, a game, he's prevented/stopped. Did you know that he's 3rd on the team in Hits? Did you know that he leads the team in blocked shots? Did you know that he's 6th in the conference in the blocked shots dept.? I can go on and on with the quantitative measures to support my reasoning, but the fact that you guys get all over this guy just because the back of his jersey doesn't read "Staal" is ridiculous.

Give me a break.
No one is saying he's absolutely terrible. He's just not a top four defenseman in my opinion because he doesn't possess the skill needed to be one. You can hit all you want and block shots, but if you can't handle the puck and move it up the ice you're not a top 4 defessenman. He can, however, almost pass for a 3-4 defenseman as we've seen, but on a team with very good defensive depth, ideally you would want him playing bottom pair minutes.

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01-01-2010, 11:25 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
No one is saying he's absolutely terrible. He's just not a top four defenseman in my opinion because he doesn't possess the skill needed to be one. You can hit all you want and block shots, but if you can't handle the puck and move it up the ice you're not a top 4 defessenman. He can, however, almost pass for a 3-4 defenseman as we've seen, but on a team with very good defensive depth, ideally you would want him playing bottom pair minutes.
hit the nail on the head

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01-01-2010, 11:48 AM
  #38
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Potter= career call up
Heikinen pinching, well it happens you get burned
Sangs is having a great year in HFT ask Squishy
Sauer should be in the NHL next year, i like the kid as a 5/6 right now...seems sound in his own end and is developing on moving the puck
Nigel needs to grow up from what i see posted in the HFT thread

What about the Russians (valenteko, et al)? don't see nothing in the prospects thread
I have gone to 2 wolfpack games this year and sangs just hasn't impressed, heikinen looked better than him and it was clearly not his best night either

I agree on sauer, i would like to see what he could do at the expense of redden at some point before the end of the season, and as for williams its was the first time I saw him he just looked composed and played solid in his end making some good outlet passes and using his frame

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01-01-2010, 12:17 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
No one is saying he's absolutely terrible. He's just not a top four defenseman in my opinion because he doesn't possess the skill needed to be one. You can hit all you want and block shots, but if you can't handle the puck and move it up the ice you're not a top 4 defessenman. He can, however, almost pass for a 3-4 defenseman as we've seen, but on a team with very good defensive depth, ideally you would want him playing bottom pair minutes.
Right, because Staal's impeccable offensive ability, certainly make him a "top" pairing defenseman on a "great" team.

How did the leading-the-rush/long outlet passing project this season work for Staal?

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01-01-2010, 12:27 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by BKBlackRanger View Post
Potter= career call up
Heikinen pinching, well it happens you get burned
Sangs is having a great year in HFT ask Squishy
Sauer should be in the NHL next year, i like the kid as a 5/6 right now...seems sound in his own end and is developing on moving the puck
Nigel needs to grow up from what i see posted in the HFT thread

What about the Russians (valenteko, et al)? don't see nothing in the prospects thread
Sanguinetti was having a great year in Hartford. Since he's gone back his offense has disappeared and his minuses have been piling up. It seems to me he needs to get back on track.

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01-01-2010, 12:28 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by EmDeeZee4MVP View Post
Right, because Staal's impeccable offensive ability, certainly make him a "top" pairing defenseman on a "great" team.

How did the leading-the-rush/long outlet passing project this season work for Staal?
I might have missed something, but was Staal even in the conversation for making the Canadian Olympic team? Something is telling me we around here place a heck of alot more value on Staal than anyone else does. I mean considering that Staal was a highly touted first rounder and Girardi was undrafted, who is closer to being what was expected of them?

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01-01-2010, 01:06 PM
  #42
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I might have missed something, but was Staal even in the conversation for making the Canadian Olympic team? Something is telling me we around here place a heck of alot more value on Staal than anyone else does. I mean considering that Staal was a highly touted first rounder and Girardi was undrafted, who is closer to being what was expected of them?
Bingo.

As I said before, we give Staal the benefit of the doubt because of his last name. If we nit-picked Staal's game as much as we do with Girardi, I can assure to you that you will find less voids in Girardi's game than of Staal's.

Allow me to use a recent example to illustrate my point. Which Defenseman, in our most recent game against the 'Canes, put one in the back of the net from a shot from the point? Albeit it was waived off. When was the last time Staal even scored from the point? Why is Mr. Untouchable never on the PP with all of his proclaimed offensive prowess?

Is Girardi a top pairing D man on a superb team? Maybe not. But he sure as heck is a top 4 Defenseman.

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01-01-2010, 01:23 PM
  #43
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Send him away while he has any value. He's nothing special.

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01-01-2010, 01:25 PM
  #44
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Bingo.

As I said before, we give Staal the benefit of the doubt because of his last name. If we nit-picked Staal's game as much as we do with Girardi, I can assure to you that you will find less voids in Girardi's game than of Staal's.

Allow me to use a recent example to illustrate my point. Which Defenseman, in our most recent game against the 'Canes, put one in the back of the net from a shot from the point? Albeit it was waived off. When was the last time Staal even scored from the point? Why is Mr. Untouchable never on the PP with all of his proclaimed offensive prowess?

Is Girardi a top pairing D man on a superb team? Maybe not. But he sure as heck is a top 4 Defenseman.
Girardi's shot selection is AWFUL.

He shoots regardless of whether an opposing player is blocking the shooting lane, resulting in odd man rushes.

In the game against the Isles' last Saturday, Girardi decided to shoot a bouncing puck instead of trying to settle it down. He flubbed the shot and the Islanders charged up the ice and scored a goal.

There's a reason Girardi hasn't received PP time all season.

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01-01-2010, 01:34 PM
  #45
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Bingo.

As I said before, we give Staal the benefit of the doubt because of his last name. If we nit-picked Staal's game as much as we do with Girardi, I can assure to you that you will find less voids in Girardi's game than of Staal's.

Allow me to use a recent example to illustrate my point. Which Defenseman, in our most recent game against the 'Canes, put one in the back of the net from a shot from the point? Albeit it was waived off. When was the last time Staal even scored from the point? Why is Mr. Untouchable never on the PP with all of his proclaimed offensive prowess?

Is Girardi a top pairing D man on a superb team? Maybe not. But he sure as heck is a top 4 Defenseman.
What proclaimed offensive prowess? There are only a few people here who think that Staal is going to be anything special offensively, and those that do don't expect that aspect of his game to come until he matures a bit

Also, Staal is a +1 whereas Girardi is a -11. Plus/Minus doesn't mean everything, but that's not a small gap, especially when you consider that Staal struggled big time in the beginning - an people did get on him. He also plays more minutes and against better players (Girardi often plays against top lines, but not as much as Staal)

Staal is not the best puck handler, but I still see some potential there. I just don't really see it with Girardi.

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01-01-2010, 02:21 PM
  #46
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How are some of you saying he is a bottom pair guy. Girardi has been one of our best d-men this season. Every game he brakes up big plays makes some nice first passes out of the zone, blocks shot,and to be honest has been more consistent then any other d-man since the first 2 weeks of the season. Is he worth 4mill a yr when you compare him to Rosi and Reddden **** im worth 4mill..I would have no problem locking Girardi up for 3 Yrs 2-2.5 per

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01-01-2010, 02:21 PM
  #47
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I said it the day he was signed. $3 million for three years for an average 32-year-old forward. You make that kind of commitment in this salary cap era to a player like Kotalik. The lesson of Matt Cullen was clearly forgotten.
Talking about denying Betts, Z, signing Brash, etc...

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01-01-2010, 02:23 PM
  #48
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Girardi is a very good third pairing defenseman who is being used in a role he was forced into. His skating and pivoting skills are not good enough for him to be matched up against Ovechkins, Crosbys of the NHL at even strength without getting burned several times a game.

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01-01-2010, 03:31 PM
  #49
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No one is saying he's absolutely terrible. He's just not a top four defenseman in my opinion because he doesn't possess the skill needed to be one. You can hit all you want and block shots, but if you can't handle the puck and move it up the ice you're not a top 4 defessenman. He can, however, almost pass for a 3-4 defenseman as we've seen, but on a team with very good defensive depth, ideally you would want him playing bottom pair minutes.
just think what all our defence would be like if we actually had some forwards with some talent other than gabby cally dubi all the rest as you mentioned about girardi would be on the fourth line on any other team. considering our talent pool up front our d are doing fine get better skilled forwards and you wouldnt notice the d making a bad play here and there. does anybody ever watch highlights of other games if our d made mistakes like that they would be crucified and by the way those are olyimpic d making those mistakes not a bunch of nobodys like ours

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01-01-2010, 03:48 PM
  #50
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Girardi's shot selection is AWFUL.

He shoots regardless of whether an opposing player is blocking the shooting lane, resulting in odd man rushes.

In the game against the Isles' last Saturday, Girardi decided to shoot a bouncing puck instead of trying to settle it down. He flubbed the shot and the Islanders charged up the ice and scored a goal.

There's a reason Girardi hasn't received PP time all season.
I disagree, we give stall powerplay time and he shots are always blocked or just wide, and rozy, when is the last time he even hit the net? his shots are always high and wide, the last time he may have hit the net was in the double OT game vs the sabres I was at when he scored the winner, damn that was years ago and I'm not even going to touch redden, has he even shot the puck this season?

Girardi also had a pretty nice goal last night that was a shot from the point, only to be taken away by a garbage goalie interference call

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