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Torts says Ranger players are treated too good by organization

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Old
01-02-2010, 02:55 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Simply asking why Tortorella is given a long leash on the same aspects that Renney was crucified for.
What aspects are you referring to? Both coaches have been handcuffed by managerial errors, have marginal defensive and offensive talent, and have both reverted to playing conservatively once they found out how much the offense and defense sucks. I really don't see much difference. Both coaches had near identical talent and the results indicate this.

Torts could well make the playoffs this season and be out in the first round. Perhaps the problem lies deeper inside the organization and Torts is attempting to find out what it is.

Torts' leash is no longer than Renneys, which imo is about 4 years long. I think the organization at least owes him the chance to start over without Sathers mistakes.

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01-02-2010, 02:56 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Kind of Blue View Post
Just for kicks I'll bring this back on topic...

Renney would never publicly call out his players and use something as ridiculous as local travel arrangements as an excuse for poor results.
This is back on topic? You miss the point like Higgins missing the net.

How is this morphing into Torts making excuses? and how did this become a comparison of Renney and Torts.

The point is that NY Rangers players, by and large, are spoiled and that it effects their play. You seriously going to argue that?

again: we get what we deserve

Thee guys can't score and that's mostly because they are not willing to bust their butts night in and night out.

Ever wonder why we have the least amount of injuries?

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01-02-2010, 02:58 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I don't see how you can argue against the fact that the majority of the players that have been around for both tenures were better, or significantly better under Renney than they have been with Tortorella.
Like who?

And what are we evaluating here? Renney's 4+ years vs. Torts 4 months? It simply isn't equitable.

Redden: better under Torts
Roszival: sucks under everyone after surgery
Drury: better under Renney, but getting older
Voros: LOL
Staal: better under Renney, but getting better now
Girardi: same
Lundqvist: same
Dubinsky: better under Torts
Callahan: about the same
Avery: about the same

Am I missing anyone? Is it close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
For me, as much as people continue to think otherwise, it's not a matter of me 'sucking up' to Renney. It's the fact that the guy got a raw deal and was canned because of Sather's inability to put together a competitive team. I don't like Tortorella's coaching style, but I don't blame him for having an equally poor roster at his disposal.
I agree re: Sather. But I also think Renney's run was done after Dallas.

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01-02-2010, 02:58 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I don't see how you can argue against the fact that the majority of the players that have been around for both tenures were better, or significantly better under Renney than they have been with Tortorella.

For me, as much as people continue to think otherwise, it's not a matter of me 'sucking up' to Renney. It's the fact that the guy got a raw deal and was canned because of Sather's inability to put together a competitive team. I don't like Tortorella's coaching style, but I don't blame him for having an equally poor roster at his disposal.
Renney being fired has little to do with him as a coach and more to do with Sather covering his own ass.

THERE IS NO COACH THAT CAN TURN THIS AROUND. Not Joel Quenville from Chicago, not Mike Babcock from Detroit, and not the Rangers John Tortorella.

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01-02-2010, 03:04 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Special View Post
This is back on topic?
Uh, yeah, read the original post of the thread. jesus christ.

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01-02-2010, 03:07 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Kind of Blue View Post
Uh, yeah, read the original post of the thread. jesus christ.
So it's the travel arrangements and not the fact that they're spoiled and not playing as team?

would bigger limos help?

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01-02-2010, 03:12 PM
  #107
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perhaps the point is that when a team is at talent challenged as this one is, the need for team unity is even more important. thus larger limos might be a start.

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01-02-2010, 03:13 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Special View Post
So it's the travel arrangements and not the fact that they're spoiled and not playing as team?

would bigger limos help?
You're hung up on the limo part. They have money, its professional sports, get over it. The point is, whether you travel in a limo or on a vespa, whereas previously you could get to a local on your own, now you can't. It has nothing to do with being spoiled. And this really has no effect on anything, its just John Tortorella being an idiot, and saying things in public he doesn't need to be saying (he could've made this change without telling the media), and making sure he shifts blame to his players and disassociates himself.

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01-02-2010, 03:16 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Special View Post
This is back on topic? You miss the point like Higgins missing the net.

How is this morphing into Torts making excuses? and how did this become a comparison of Renney and Torts.

The point is that NY Rangers players, by and large, are spoiled and that it effects their play. You seriously going to argue that?

again: we get what we deserve

Thee guys can't score and that's mostly because they are not willing to bust their butts night in and night out.

Ever wonder why we have the least amount of injuries?
This thread predictably turns into a Torts vs. Renney argument again, when the focus should be on Dolan and Sather for cultivating a culture of entitlement and indulgence.

The players should be grateful and appreciative that they are treated so well by this organization. If they aren't, then those privileges deserve to be taken away. Drury acknowledged this earlier in the season:

Quote:
"In the city and the organization, we get treated so well - playing in such a great city you have everything you can imagine at your fingertips," said Drury, citing the two hot meals provided by the Rangers on a daily basis, the charter plane, the stays at the top hotels. "But coming to the rink, it's time for business. You have to leave all the other stuff at the door."
http://njmg.typepad.com/rangersblog/...-and-play.html

If this city and the perks of being a Ranger are too much of a distraction for some of these players, they either need to be shipped out, or, if that's not feasible, then these perks need to confiscated.

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01-02-2010, 03:17 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I don't see how you can argue against the fact that the majority of the players that have been around for both tenures were better, or significantly better under Renney than they have been with Tortorella.

For me, as much as people continue to think otherwise, it's not a matter of me 'sucking up' to Renney. It's the fact that the guy got a raw deal and was canned because of Sather's inability to put together a competitive team. I don't like Tortorella's coaching style, but I don't blame him for having an equally poor roster at his disposal.
The three bolded parts sum up my position on those topics


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01-02-2010, 03:21 PM
  #111
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By the way, before Tortorella showed up, did we have an issue where players didn't work hard and were considered spoiled? I don't remember that. There were always the knocks on Gomez and Drury because they made the most money and their production wasn't great, but in general this was considered a hard working, "lunch pail"-type team, that maybe didn't have so much talent but made up for it by working hard, working as a team and doing the little things. There is a tie-in here to my unpopular Sjostrom-Betts-Orr thread; we definitely lost some of these qualities when we lost guys like that. But I'm not ready to say all of a sudden we're spoiled and that's it. Its just a convenient argument for Tortorella.


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01-02-2010, 03:22 PM
  #112
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I think it unfair that Torts singles out the players. After all, why shouldn't they be treated as well for their mediocrity as the GM has been for his?

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01-02-2010, 03:25 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kind of Blue View Post
By the way, before Tortorella showed up, did we have an issue where players didn't work hard and were considered spoiled? I don't remember that. There were always the knocks on Gomez and Drury because they made the most money and their production wasn't great, but in general this was considered a hard working, "lunch pail"-type team, that maybe didn't have so much talent but made up for it by working hard, working as a team and doing the little things. There is a tie in here to my unpopular Sjostrom-Betts-Orr thread; we definitely lost some of these qualities with guys like that. But I'm not ready to say all of a sudden in one year the culture has changed so much and we have a bunch of spoiled guys on this team.
According to Torts we did. I remember one of his first interviews...he was talking about how the players conditioning STUNK and how they were spoiled, etc.

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01-02-2010, 03:26 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kind of Blue View Post
By the way, before Tortorella showed up, did we have an issue where players didn't work hard and were considered spoiled? I don't remember that. There were always the knocks on Gomez and Drury because they made the most money and their production wasn't great, but in general this was considered a hard working, "lunch pail"-type team, that maybe didn't have so much talent but made up for it by working hard, working as a team and doing the little things. There is a tie in here to my unpopular Sjostrom-Betts-Orr thread; we definitely lost some of these qualities with guys like that. But I'm not ready to say all of a sudden in one year the culture has changed so much and we have a bunch of spoiled guys on this team.
You seriously don't remember the "lazy" posts about Jagr, Zherdev, etc... and the same knocks on Redden, Roszival, etc...

This isn't new.

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01-02-2010, 03:28 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
According to Torts we did. I remember one of his first interviews...he was talking about how the players conditioning STUNK and how they were spoiled, etc.
That's a convenient argument for him, and I don't buy it.

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01-02-2010, 03:33 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kind of Blue View Post
By the way, before Tortorella showed up, did we have an issue where players didn't work hard and were considered spoiled? I don't remember that. There were always the knocks on Gomez and Drury because they made the most money and their production wasn't great, but in general this was considered a hard working, "lunch pail"-type team, that maybe didn't have so much talent but made up for it by working hard, working as a team and doing the little things. There is a tie-in here to my unpopular Sjostrom-Betts-Orr thread; we definitely lost some of these qualities when we lost guys like that. But I'm not ready to say all of a sudden we're spoiled and that's it. Its just a convenient argument for Tortorella.
If you look at my above post, Drury himself acknowledged that the Rangers' organization treats the players well, but that they have to forget about all that once they hit the ice. So this argument isn't just coming from Torts, it is coming from the captain of the team as well. No one had an issue when Drury said the same type of thing that Torts is saying now.

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01-02-2010, 03:34 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Kind of Blue View Post
Uh, yeah, read the original post of the thread. jesus christ.
You need to read the original post.

These players are spoiled. Too much money. Too many perks. Half the team lives in the city and the other half lives in Westchester. When the Rangers were snowed in Philly a few weeks ago,he said this a good opportunity for the boys to go out as a group. Larry Brooks writes about the Fat Cat syndrome infecting the Rangers again and management needs to make moves so the atmosphere doesn't ruin the younger players. Management refuses to waive and demote anyone. The Rangers have always been known as the fat cat rich city boys. The coach makes a comment about ownership/management treating their players too well and you can't comprehend that he said. He isn't passing the buck. It's the culture of the Rangers. They never practice or have a morning skate at the Garden. They just play 41 games and go home.

The Rangers are not a team. They are individuals playing for the Rangers.

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01-02-2010, 03:47 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
You need to read the original post.

These players are spoiled. Too much money. Too many perks. Half the team lives in the city and the other half lives in Westchester. When the Rangers were snowed in Philly a few weeks ago,he said this a good opportunity for the boys to go out as a group. Larry Brooks writes about the Fat Cat syndrome infecting the Rangers again and management needs to make moves so the atmosphere doesn't ruin the younger players. Management refuses to waive and demote anyone. The Rangers have always been known as the fat cat rich city boys. The coach makes a comment about ownership/management treating their players too well and you can't comprehend that he said. He isn't passing the buck. It's the culture of the Rangers. They never practice or have a morning skate at the Garden. They just play 41 games and go home.

The Rangers are not a team. They are individuals playing for the Rangers.
They basically lack chemistry on and off the ice.

The majority of the players live in Manhattan. Only Prospal, Kotalik and Rozsival live in Westchester.
I don't have a problem with them living in Manhattan. After all they do work there. The problem is or could be a problem is this is a young team living in a big city. They obviously aren't sitting at home all the time being young men. They may be enjoying the night life a bit too much. It would probably be much easier if it was an older group and players were married with families.

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01-02-2010, 03:47 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
If you look at my above post, Drury himself acknowledged that the Rangers' organization treats the players well, but that they have to forget about all that once they hit the ice. So this argument isn't just coming from Torts, it is coming from the captain of the team as well. No one had an issue when Drury said the same type of thing that Torts is saying now.
Its one thing when the captain or a player makes a statement so that people know they don't take the organization for granted, and another when the coach points a finger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
These players are spoiled. Too much money. Too many perks. Half the team lives in the city and the other half lives in Westchester. When the Rangers were snowed in Philly a few weeks ago,he said this a good opportunity for the boys to go out as a group. Larry Brooks writes about the Fat Cat syndrome infecting the Rangers again and management needs to make moves so the atmosphere doesn't ruin the younger players. Management refuses to waive and demote anyone. The Rangers have always been known as the fat cat rich city boys. The coach makes a comment about ownership/management treating their players too well and you can't comprehend that he said. He isn't passing the buck. It's the culture of the Rangers. They never practice or have a morning skate at the Garden. They just play 41 games and go home.

The Rangers are not a team. They are individuals playing for the Rangers.
When you say this kind of stuff to the media (when there is no reason to -- just make the change), it comes across as passing the buck. When you're talking about travel to the Island and Jersey when we're not even going there in the near future, it comes across as passing the buck and looking for excuses.

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01-02-2010, 03:48 PM
  #120
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I think this stuff has been made puplic because it's a lingering problem.

Once you have beat writers stating it, the captain stating it and the coach stating it...

It's probably a problem.

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01-02-2010, 03:53 PM
  #121
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the Rangers used to sequester their players at the hotel across the street from msg on game days ..players had pre game meals together .....might be time to do that again.

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01-02-2010, 03:53 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post

The Rangers are not a team. They are individuals playing for the Rangers.
This. And this is exactly why the Devils are a more successful franchise than we are. Our fans post here that Torts shouldn't say this kind of stuff and Renney never did and that's precisely the problem. Rather than giving praise for Torts for telling it as is about this team and their country club lifestyle, some of you are singing praises of coaches gone by and for Tort's having the gumption to do this. I'm sick of hearing about this and it's been around for a long (Gretzky Era) long time.

If this gets the ball rolling on Redden and/or Roszival getting demoted, then I'm completely on Torts side. I don't think any of us are closer to the locker room culture than he is and I'll take his word for it even if he doesn't put it delicately. Enough of this crap.

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01-02-2010, 03:58 PM
  #123
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Part of the reason the Rangers can get the big time players like Gaborik has to do with the organization. Most superstars like to be spoiled, no? Let's not forget this is New York City, this is the New York Rangers one of the most prestigious teams in the league. The culture is what attracts some of the big names here.

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01-02-2010, 04:04 PM
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Part of the reason the Rangers can get the big time players like Gaborik has to do with the organization. Most superstars like to be spoiled, no? Let's not forget this is New York City, this is the New York Rangers one of the most prestigious teams in the league. The culture is what attracts some of the big names here.

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01-02-2010, 04:06 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
This. And this is exactly why the Devils are a more successful franchise than we are. Our fans post here that Torts shouldn't say this kind of stuff and Renney never did and that's precisely the problem. Rather than giving praise for Torts for telling it as is about this team and their country club lifestyle, some of you are singing praises of coaches gone by and for Tort's having the gumption to do this. I'm sick of hearing about this and it's been around for a long (Gretzky Era) long time.

If this gets the ball rolling on Redden and/or Roszival getting demoted, then I'm completely on Torts side. I don't think any of us are closer to the locker room culture than he is and I'll take his word for it even if he doesn't put it delicately. Enough of this crap.
It is becoming annoying reading some fans whine about the coach on this board. He- imo is the least of this organization problems...

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