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Mike Richter or Henrik Lundqvist

View Poll Results: Who ya got?
Mike Richter 83 30.97%
Henrik Lundqvist 185 69.03%
Voters: 268. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-04-2010, 09:12 AM
  #51
Dagoon44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaserShot28 View Post
Richter was great but Henrik is the better goaltender
Pretty general statement there expLAIN

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Old
01-04-2010, 09:16 AM
  #52
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Older fans will vote Richter
Younger fans will vote Lundqvist

I'm a younger fan but i'm voting for Richter.He played in a different era for most of his career,where scoring was much higher before the dead pucking began not to mention there were ties back than and now your team either wins or loses. He would certainly have more than 300 wins on his resume~ had he stayed concussion free and healthy.

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Old
01-04-2010, 09:28 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
At the risk of driving Richter's legions mad, I submit that Richter was the 2nd best goalie in the Finals when they won the Cup.
It's close. I'd have to check but the stats may actually favor Mclean that series. He was absolutely otherworldly in Game 1 especially. 50+ saves in a game the rangers dominated and lost.

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Old
01-04-2010, 10:13 AM
  #54
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I don't think anyone who picked Richter would say Lundqvist doesn't have more raw talent than Mike.

With that said, Richter has all the benefits of the doubt seeing as he has been retired with a Stanley Cup, World Cup Gold, Olympic Silver facing arguably stiffer competition. Until Lundqvist cant GET PAST the 2nd round I don't think you can even have this discussion.

Richter was kinda of like the Knicks during that same time period: they weren't the best in the league, but they always rose to the occasion and were able to overachieve in adverse circumstances. We all remember Richter's 94 run, but each playoffs after that he always gave his team a legit chance to win the series (even in 97 he was incredible). I don't think we ever had a playoff meltdown with Richter in the net, but already in Lundqvist's era there was 2006 vs. NJ and 2009 vs. WAS (and I'm not saying that rested entirely on Hank, its just odd).

Wins is irrelevant and when Lundqvist gets more than Richter it will not prove anything. Simple numeric longevity will get you there.

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Old
01-04-2010, 11:17 AM
  #55
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I think Henrik has more talent than Richter overall. But I'm judging Richter based on his entire career, whereas with Henrik I only have a few seasons to go on. Right now, I'll say Richter. When all is said and done, I think it will probably be Henrik.

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01-04-2010, 11:20 AM
  #56
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I also added a poll.

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01-04-2010, 11:21 AM
  #57
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This whole discussion is premature at this point because Henrik is so early in his career. Putting that aside and trying to just use their existing bodies of work, you would have to call Henrik the more consistent goalie with all the years as a Vezina finalist in a row to start his career, Richter wasn't really that kind of goalie. He had great years, he had a few not so memorable ones. But at his finest, I think Richter was better. He was great in defeat at times as well. Think about the 1997 playoff run with all those injuries, Ken Gerdander and Dallas Eakins getting tons of ice time. They still beat a decent Florida team and a heavily favored Devil squad. Think about the 1996 World Cup. Or most memorable to me was his last stand: The Gold Medal game at the '02 olympics, 3rd period especially. The onslaught he withstood as Marty basically sat in a rocking chair in that game was unforgettable. Also why I would take him in a big spot over Marty, who was never asked to "win" games the way Richter was. Henrik is on his way and will probably ultimately be the guy if he wins a cup, but at this stage you have to go Richter.

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Old
01-04-2010, 11:33 AM
  #58
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Right now, this is like saying who would you rather have -- Phil Simms or Philip Rivers. Rivers is certainly the more talented quarterback, but how can you argue at this point against the success that Simms had throughout his career?

I certainly don't hold our lack of a championship in the past 4 seasons against Henrik, but it still prevents him from being elevated beyond a Stanley Cup winner and one of the best big-game goaltenders of all time.

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Old
01-04-2010, 11:41 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Ditto.

Love and admire Richter. But Henke is the best I have ever seen covering the bottom half of the net and amazingly consistent. Richter was much more streaky.
Ditto.

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Old
01-04-2010, 11:47 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
Right now, this is like saying who would you rather have -- Phil Simms or Philip Rivers. Rivers is certainly the more talented quarterback, but how can you argue at this point against the success that Simms had throughout his career?

I certainly don't hold our lack of a championship in the past 4 seasons against Henrik, but it still prevents him from being elevated beyond a Stanley Cup winner and one of the best big-game goaltenders of all time.
Henke is closer than most will admit.

Henke's won Gold in olympics and not only win the Swedish championship but also the MVP of the league the year NHL'ers were brought in during the lockout. Rivers has none of that on his resume, bad example.

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Old
01-04-2010, 11:48 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I think Henrik has more talent than Richter overall. But I'm judging Richter based on his entire career, whereas with Henrik I only have a few seasons to go on. Right now, I'll say Richter. When all is said and done, I think it will probably be Henrik.
Pretty much how I feel.

Ive got a soft spot for Richter, because he was an amazing big-game goalie. The playoff run in 94, and especially his performance in the 96 World Cup of hockey were nothing short of amazing.

Technically, Lundqvist is the better goalie, but he really hasnt had the team around him to make any lasting playoff memories...although he does have a gold medal.

Lundqvist is very close to overtaking Richter.

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01-04-2010, 12:02 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Henke is closer than most will admit.

Henke's won Gold in olympics and not only win the Swedish championship but also the MVP of the league the year NHL'ers were brought in during the lockout. Rivers has none of that on his resume, bad example.
Olympic gold I'll give you, but not MVP of a minor league equivalent just because they had some NHLers in the league. But regardless, you're quibbling over semantics. I think you get the larger point. At least I would hope that you do.

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Old
01-04-2010, 12:05 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Before Hasek won a Cup with Detroit, would you have taken Mike Vernon over him?
Are you seriously comparing Hank to Hasek? Hasek won multiple Vezina trophies and was the most dominant goalie in hockey for a long time.

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01-04-2010, 12:09 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by LeetchisGod View Post
Are you seriously comparing Hank to Hasek? Hasek won multiple Vezina trophies and was the most dominant goalie in hockey for a long time.
im pretty sure he was just making a point ie: sometimes the best goaltenders don't win cups (or as many as others) b/c of team effects.

see: Osgood, Chris.

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Old
01-04-2010, 12:39 PM
  #65
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This is a no-brainer.

Mike Richter.

Lundqvist hasn't earned the right to be mentioned in the same breath as Richter.

Wins my ass. Ulitmately he (Lundqvist ) doesn't get it done in the big spots and this season is exposing him as a goaltender who benefited greatly from Renney's system. And he's never been more than 5 to 8 games above .500, in his four and a half year career.

Take away that protective system (and quality third and fourth liners like Blair Betts, Jed Ortmeyer, Sjostrom...etc) and you have a goaltender who's getting exposed and crappin' the bed in big spots. And let's face it, he's been crappin' the bed in bog spots in his four previous seasons. "

Rangers All-Time Record Stats are complete and utter nonsense. The Rangers organization, for all their years of existence; have a fairly paltry and pathetic history. The only thing that matters is how a goaltender performs in Big Games and in Big Spots. Lundqvist has been routinely outplayed and out-classed in that area, every Playoff Season.

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Old
01-04-2010, 12:50 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
This is a no-brainer.

Mike Richter.

Lundqvist hasn't earned the right to be mentioned in the same breath as Richter.

Wins my ass. Ulitmately he (Lundqvist ) doesn't get it done in the big spots and this season is exposing him as a goaltender who benefited greatly from Renney's system. And he's never been more than 5 to 8 games above .500, in his four and a half year career.

Take away that protective system (and quality third and fourth liners like Blair Betts, Jed Ortmeyer, Sjostrom...etc) and you have a goaltender who's getting exposed and crappin' the bed in big spots. And let's face it, he's been crappin' the bed in bog spots in his four previous seasons. "

Rangers All-Time Record Stats are complete and utter nonsense. The Rangers organization, for all their years of existence; have a fairly paltry and pathetic history. The only thing that matters is how a goaltender performs in Big Games and in Big Spots. Lundqvist has been routinely outplayed and out-classed in that area, every Playoff Season.

His Sv % is higher this season that it has been every year under Renney's with the exception of his rookie season. He hasn't been "exposed" the rangers D is simply worse and allowing more shots on goal, causing his GAA to go up.

The big game crap is ridiculous as well. He has played in one game 7 against a far superior team and lost, and won a gold medal in the olympics as a 23 year old.

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Old
01-04-2010, 12:50 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
This is a no-brainer.

Mike Richter.

Lundqvist hasn't earned the right to be mentioned in the same breath as Richter.

Wins my ass. Ulitmately he (Lundqvist ) doesn't get it done in the big spots and this season is exposing him as a goaltender who benefited greatly from Renney's system. And he's never been more than 5 to 8 games above .500, in his four and a half year career.

Take away that protective system (and quality third and fourth liners like Blair Betts, Jed Ortmeyer, Sjostrom...etc) and you have a goaltender who's getting exposed and crappin' the bed in big spots. And let's face it, he's been crappin' the bed in bog spots in his four previous seasons. "

Rangers All-Time Record Stats are complete and utter nonsense. The Rangers organization, for all their years of existence; have a fairly paltry and pathetic history. The only thing that matters is how a goaltender performs in Big Games and in Big Spots. Lundqvist has been routinely outplayed and out-classed in that area, every Playoff Season.
This is a pretty pathetic analysis.

And Ill leave it at that.

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Old
01-04-2010, 12:55 PM
  #68
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Hank because Richter had more support for the cup year, and didn't do as well post-cup with the garbage 97-03 dark ages. Hank was #1 when we had Jagr.

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Old
01-04-2010, 01:18 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
This is a no-brainer.

Mike Richter.

Lundqvist hasn't earned the right to be mentioned in the same breath as Richter.

Wins my ass. Ulitmately he (Lundqvist ) doesn't get it done in the big spots and this season is exposing him as a goaltender who benefited greatly from Renney's system. And he's never been more than 5 to 8 games above .500, in his four and a half year career.

Take away that protective system (and quality third and fourth liners like Blair Betts, Jed Ortmeyer, Sjostrom...etc) and you have a goaltender who's getting exposed and crappin' the bed in big spots. And let's face it, he's been crappin' the bed in bog spots in his four previous seasons. "

Rangers All-Time Record Stats are complete and utter nonsense. The Rangers organization, for all their years of existence; have a fairly paltry and pathetic history. The only thing that matters is how a goaltender performs in Big Games and in Big Spots. Lundqvist has been routinely outplayed and out-classed in that area, every Playoff Season.
Is it Lundqvist or the Rangers as a whole getting outclassed and outplayed?

In 05-06 (Olympic year) he gets smoked by the Devils in the three games he plays. Rangers get bounced in 5. This is also the first year he's played in more than 60 games in his career.

In 06-07 - We sweep the Thrashers and lose to the better team in Buffalo in 6 games. If not for Henrik against the Sabres we get swept.

In 07-08 Henrik outplays Broduer as we oust the Devils in 5 games. We move on to get beat by the better team in Pittsburgh (a team that wen ont to represent the East in the Finals)

In 08-09, while his "numbers" may not show it, if not for Lundqvist we are not in the series let alone leading 3 games to 1.

For all the BS about winning the big games, there were quite a few soft losses by Mikey as well. Remember the series turning 150 footer that Mike let in against the Penguins?

At the end of the day, Mike won a Cup, Kudos to him for it. No one can take that away.

But the perception that Mike Richter was this great goalie is odd.

He's won more than 30 games ONLY Twice in his career. Lundqvist is on pace to shatter the all time wins total for a Rangers goalie. Not just surpass it, Shatter it.

At his current pace, Lundqvist will have over 300 wins in his 9th season. He will be 31 going on 32 years old (prime age for goalies).

He's just 3 shutouts behind Mike for their careers (Henrik 21) (Mike 24)

Mike was a better than average goalie. But never considered one of the top 5 goalies in the league other than the year he posted 42 wins. The NY Hype machine may have you believing that he was a great goalie, but the proof is in the pudding and I don't care who you are, playing behind the team that we had assembled back in the early to mid 90's I would suggest that you could mistake your way to consecutive 30 win seasons, something that Mike has NEVER done.

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Old
01-04-2010, 01:19 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
This is a pretty pathetic analysis.

And Ill leave it at that.

Pathetically true.

Most grossly over-rated goaltender in the league=Henrik Lunqvist. Hands down.

Funny, I don't see anyone mentioning Lundqvist's teammates, when giving him credit for wins and other stats. But as soon as a negative is mentioned, suddenly it's his teammates fault

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01-04-2010, 01:32 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
Pathetically true.

Most grossly over-rated goaltender in the league=Henrik Lunqvist. Hands down.

Funny, I don't see anyone mentioning Lundqvist's teammates, when giving him credit for wins and other stats. But as soon as a negative is mentioned, suddenly it's his teammates fault
The reason for that is then when you have a goalie that playes as consistently sound nets as he does, when he does lose a game, more often than not, its not his fault.

Granted, the Philly game he was putrid. There's no excuse for him to have played as badly as he did.

But, the overall picture that's been painted thus far is that Henrik is consistently playing well enough to win more often than not, but when your offense is as putrid as the Rangers is and you have dolts like Rosival and Redden on occassion Girardi and Dizzy playing defence in front of him, he's going to get the benefit of the doubt alot more based on reputation.

He's played well enough for the first 4+ years that when he does let in a soft looking goal, I'm waiting for the re-play to determine who really is at fault.

More often than not, it's a bone headed play or non-coverage by one of his own teammates.

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01-04-2010, 01:40 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Is it Lundqvist or the Rangers as a whole getting outclassed and outplayed?

In 05-06 (Olympic year) he gets smoked by the Devils in the three games he plays. Rangers get bounced in 5. This is also the first year he's played in more than 60 games in his career.

It was Four games. The Rangers got swept by the Devils, four games to none. He got yanked because he was putrid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
In 06-07 - We sweep the Thrashers and lose to the better team in Buffalo in 6 games. If not for Henrik against the Sabres we get swept.
He got 17 goals in four games from his teammates, against the Thrashers. And thank god he did, because he nearly blew both Game One and Game Four; due to the game interfering with his regularily scheduled nap time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
In 07-08 Henrik outplays Broduer as we oust the Devils in 5 games. We move on to get beat by the better team in Pittsburgh (a team that wen ont to represent the East in the Finals)

He gave up a pathetic ten goals in three games ( in games 3, 4 and 5). Bailed out by his teamates on games 4 and 5.

Lundqvist plays a whole lot more games than Richter ever did. While Lundvist wins almost 30 every year, he loses almost just as many...every year.

So when he wins, it's all credit to him. When he loses, it's because of his teammates

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01-04-2010, 01:44 PM
  #73
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The reason for that is then when you have a goalie that playes as consistently sound nets as he does.......

I stopped reading right after that.

Anyone who thinks this guy (Lundqvist) plays a consistently sound goal, has no clue about goaltending.

Which expalins a lot.

In fact, he's horribily inconsistent and his mechanics are crap. After four years in the league, his mechanics are still a trainreck.

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01-04-2010, 01:44 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
It was Four games. The Rangers got swept by the Devils, four games to none. He got yanked because he was putrid.




He got 17 goals in four games from his teammates, against the Thrashers. And thank god he did, because he nearly blew both Game One and Game Four; due to the game interfering with his regularily scheduled nap time.





He gave up a pathetic ten goals in three games ( in games 3, 4 and 5). Bailed out by his teamates on games 4 and 5.

Lundqvist plays a whole lot more games than Richter ever did. While Lundvist wins almost 30 every year, he loses almost just as many...every year.

So when he wins, it's all credit to him. When he loses, it's because of his teammates
You either have some sort of personal vendetta against Lundqvist, or you just really dont understand whats been happening the last 4+ seasons. I havent decided which yet.

Probably a bit of both.

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01-04-2010, 01:44 PM
  #75
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I love Hank, but until he wins a cup there is no way I'd put him above Richter.
my sentiments, exactly!

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