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Matt Carle Olympic Snub

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Old
01-04-2010, 04:59 PM
  #26
FlyHigh
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The most confusing thing to me about Orpik, and especially Komo, being selected ahead of Carle is that the games are on international rinks. Orpik and Komo specialize in play in their own end, being nasty on the boards, nasty in front of the net, etc.

That kind of style is great for the NHL and especially NHL playoffs, it's not so great for international play where board battles aren't as much as a factor and the ability to move the puck and be comfortable with the puck in your own end is much more important.

That's something that Yzerman gets, Team Canada has a wealth of nasty d-men to choose from, but the only one making the trip is Pronger and that's because he's a 2-way guy who also has great defensive positioning and is a good leader.

Burke apparently doesn't see that, I take Suter, Rafalski, EJ, and Martin over Carle obviously, but considering that JMFJ can't play defense and Komo and Orpik are both strongly North American style players, the omission of Carle is pretty confusing.

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01-04-2010, 05:13 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
The most confusing thing to me about Orpik, and especially Komo, being selected ahead of Carle is that the games are on international rinks. Orpik and Komo specialize in play in their own end, being nasty on the boards, nasty in front of the net, etc.

That kind of style is great for the NHL and especially NHL playoffs, it's not so great for international play where board battles aren't as much as a factor and the ability to move the puck and be comfortable with the puck in your own end is much more important.

That's something that Yzerman gets, Team Canada has a wealth of nasty d-men to choose from, but the only one making the trip is Pronger and that's because he's a 2-way guy who also has great defensive positioning and is a good leader.

Burke apparently doesn't see that, I take Suter, Rafalski, EJ, and Martin over Carle obviously, but considering that JMFJ can't play defense and Komo and Orpik are both strongly North American style players, the omission of Carle is pretty confusing.
I live in Toronto and have to listen to Burke and Ron Wilson yapping all the time. Unlike the players who can leave their egos at the door, these two cannot. Yzerman gets it, everyone up here is thrilled with he and Babcock, but the hot air that comes out of the ACC is annoying even to Leafs fans. In Burke's eyes, I'm sure if he left Komisarek off the team he would see it as his own personal failure.

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01-04-2010, 05:14 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I wouldn't call Carle a snub, Komisarek is just garbage, but it could have been some other players too not just Carle. JM Liles is a good player as well that could have been taken.
I forgot about JML hes deffinatly worthy

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01-04-2010, 05:27 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Woof View Post
I live in Toronto and have to listen to Burke and Ron Wilson yapping all the time. Unlike the players who can leave their egos at the door, these two cannot. Yzerman gets it, everyone up here is thrilled with he and Babcock, but the hot air that comes out of the ACC is annoying even to Leafs fans. In Burke's eyes, I'm sure if he left Komisarek off the team he would see it as his own personal failure.
That bold part is a very strong factor IMO. I think Burke knows that he's faced a lot of criticism for that deal ever since it was signed and this is his way of trying to validate himself. It's kind of pathetic, but it's a strong factor IMO. I can't wait till 2011 when he's getting criticized right and left for that deal and he comes out with the, "Well, Komisarek made the Olympic team" excuse.

Burke stumbled into a perfect situation in Anaheim, pulled off the Pronger deal, waived a franchise goaltender (Bryz) and won a Stanley Cup. But I mean, outside of Pronger (which was a good deal), the entire core of that team was in place before he got there, so I have trouble giving him credit for much of the Cup in 2007 especially considering he waived one of the best 10 goalies in the NHL in the process and paid the team's current backup 6 mill.

I also think he learned the wrong lesson from 06-07. Anaheim had a nearly once in a lifetime combo of a truckload of grit combined with just enough talent and outstanding goaltending. I don't think that Cup was a fluke, I just think building a team like that again would be extraordinarily difficult for a number of reasons (not least of which was that Getzlaf, Kunitz, Penner and Perry hadn't gotten paid yet).

But he hasn't learned that lesson, he's tried to build the same team in Toronto, but this time he's doing it by overpaying average vets on D and he doesn't have the young players on offense or the goaltending to pull it off.

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01-04-2010, 05:46 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
That bold part is a very strong factor IMO. I think Burke knows that he's faced a lot of criticism for that deal ever since it was signed and this is his way of trying to validate himself. It's kind of pathetic, but it's a strong factor IMO. I can't wait till 2011 when he's getting criticized right and left for that deal and he comes out with the, "Well, Komisarek made the Olympic team" excuse.
I wanna see how he reacts to "Well you ran the olympic team" responce. lol.

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01-04-2010, 05:47 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by TheDrizzle81 View Post
I wanna see how he reacts to "Well you ran the olympic team" responce. lol.
"It was a cooperative effort."

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01-04-2010, 05:50 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
The Olympic game, if I am not mistaken, is played with European rules, meaning that the game is more up tempo, so clearly it was the smart decision by Burke to pass up mobile, puck moving dmen like Carle and Goligoski in favor OF defenseman like Johnson, Komisarek and Orpik who are too slow for the NHL as it is...
Dude, you have no idea what you're talking about. Brooks Orpik is a better skater than Alex Goligoski will ever be. Too slow for the NHL? Ummm...what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
The most confusing thing to me about Orpik, and especially Komo, being selected ahead of Carle is that the games are on international rinks. Orpik and Komo specialize in play in their own end, being nasty on the boards, nasty in front of the net, etc.

That kind of style is great for the NHL and especially NHL playoffs, it's not so great for international play where board battles aren't as much as a factor and the ability to move the puck and be comfortable with the puck in your own end is much more important.
Okay, I'm starting to think that many of you simply aren't familiar with Orpik's game at all. He isn't an offensive dynamo but he's perfectly capable of carrying the puck and he's a fantastic skater. Hell, the whole reason that he was such a highly touted prospect was because he combined size and skating ability like few others. He's the PERFECT style of defenseman for this kind of tournament. Big and strong enough to handle a physical team like Canada and sleek and agile enough to handle a finesse team like Russia.

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01-04-2010, 06:00 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Brandinho View Post
Okay, I'm starting to think that many of you simply aren't familiar with Orpik's game at all. He isn't an offensive dynamo but he's perfectly capable of carrying the puck and he's a fantastic skater. Hell, the whole reason that he was such a highly touted prospect was because he combined size and skating ability like few others. He's the PERFECT style of defenseman for this kind of tournament. Big and strong enough to handle a physical team like Canada and sleek and agile enough to handle a finesse team like Russia.
I don't mind Orpik that much because you're right about the speed which helps him out (though I'm not totally on board calling him a good puck carrier) plus he's won a Cup and comes up big when it counts.

The Komo one on the other hand is baffling for a number of reasons.

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01-04-2010, 06:03 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I don't mind Orpik that much because you're right about the speed which helps him out (though I'm not totally on board calling him a good puck carrier) plus he's won a Cup and comes up big when it counts.

The Komo one on the other hand is baffling for a number of reasons.
Oh, I'm not here to defend Komisarek. I think he's awful. I'd much rather have Carle. I just hate when people assume that a physical defenseman must be slow. Brooks Orpik might actually be our fastest defender and we're not exactly a defensive corps full of pilons.

As for his puck carrying, I don't blame you for being skeptical but it's an area he's made significant improvement in recently. He's on pace to shatter his career high in assists and that's because he's become much more comfortable with bringing the puck into the offensive zone. He also has a better shot than a lot of people realize, though that's obviously not a key aspect of his game.

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01-04-2010, 06:03 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
"It was a cooperative effort."
yeah ok, but you had the final decision right?

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01-04-2010, 06:06 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
But he hasn't learned that lesson, he's tried to build the same team in Toronto, but this time he's doing it by overpaying average vets on D and he doesn't have the young players on offense or the goaltending to pull it off.
That's ********. With their record, they'll draft a couple of great young players in the first round over the next few seasons.

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01-04-2010, 06:19 PM
  #37
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That's ********. With their record, they'll draft a couple of great young players in the first round over the next few seasons.
Or.... Boston will?

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01-04-2010, 06:22 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
The most confusing thing to me about Orpik, and especially Komo, being selected ahead of Carle is that the games are on international rinks. Orpik and Komo specialize in play in their own end, being nasty on the boards, nasty in front of the net, etc.

That kind of style is great for the NHL and especially NHL playoffs, it's not so great for international play where board battles aren't as much as a factor and the ability to move the puck and be comfortable with the puck in your own end is much more important.

That's something that Yzerman gets, Team Canada has a wealth of nasty d-men to choose from, but the only one making the trip is Pronger and that's because he's a 2-way guy who also has great defensive positioning and is a good leader.

Burke apparently doesn't see that, I take Suter, Rafalski, EJ, and Martin over Carle obviously, but considering that JMFJ can't play defense and Komo and Orpik are both strongly North American style players, the omission of Carle is pretty confusing.
The olympics this year are on nhl size rinks

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01-04-2010, 06:45 PM
  #39
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IMO, Bogosian was the one who actually got snubbed. If Canada was brave enough to put Doughty in, we could have found the brass to chose talented players over experienced third liners.

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01-04-2010, 06:50 PM
  #40
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There was a show that aired last night on local Vancouver televison that showed the selection process of the American Olympic team; I believe there will be other installments giving time to the other 'Big 6' nations (Canada, Russia, Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic), though I'm not too sure if all nations will be featured.

I only watched the first 15 minutes or so, but camera crews were given full access to the whittling down process by the American management. It was a roundtable discussion and involved everyone from Burke and Wilson, through Dean Lombardi, David Poile and Paul Holmgren.

Burke was very clear through his interviews that they wanted a top 6 forward group that was highly skilled and a bottom six 'full of ******.' (rhymes with 'tricks') The same went for the defense; highly skilled individuals mixed with sandpaper.

Burke will take full responsibility if the US Team fails to meet expectations; he knew how he wanted the team structured and the selection committee made sure the team came out the way they wanted it to.

Carle/Liles/whoever didn't get snubbed; they just didn't fit the mix of talent and grinders that Burke and Co. wanted.

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01-04-2010, 06:57 PM
  #41
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All you gotta hope is that one of the crappy players picked gets injured and Carle gets the call to replace the guy.

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01-04-2010, 06:59 PM
  #42
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Or.... Boston will?
I know... it was a joke... sigh.

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01-04-2010, 07:09 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Brandinho View Post
Oh, I'm not here to defend Komisarek. I think he's awful. I'd much rather have Carle. I just hate when people assume that a physical defenseman must be slow. Brooks Orpik might actually be our fastest defender and we're not exactly a defensive corps full of pilons.

As for his puck carrying, I don't blame you for being skeptical but it's an area he's made significant improvement in recently. He's on pace to shatter his career high in assists and that's because he's become much more comfortable with bringing the puck into the offensive zone. He also has a better shot than a lot of people realize, though that's obviously not a key aspect of his game.
I'll take your word on the puck carrying, I usually avoid Pens games except for the PA battles (and with the way those are going, maybe I should start avoiding them too), but at least we can agree Komo is terrible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDrizzle81
yeah ok, but you had the final decision right?
I believe in democracy, the final decision was made by the group, not one man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhoun
That's ********. With their record, they'll draft a couple of great young players in the first round over the next few seasons.
They've gone down a good road with Tlusty, I'm hoping they accidentally draft a porn star within the next 3-4 seasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyguy_1ca
The olympics this year are on nhl size rinks
Good call I didn't know that, regardless though, I think there will still be a pretty distinct international style (more skilled players, less grinders) which tends to hurt a guy like Komisarek.

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01-04-2010, 07:13 PM
  #44
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Maybe Carle will play harder because of the snub. Either way I'm not mad about it, because if he were to get hurt the Flyers would pretty much be **** out of luck.

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01-04-2010, 07:23 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I'll take your word on the puck carrying, I usually avoid Pens games except for the PA battles (and with the way those are going, maybe I should start avoiding them too), but at least we can agree Komo is terrible.
Completely. I don't even know how Montreal homers could have liked him. Okay, he was physical. That's all he brought to the table.

BTW, since I'm here, I figured I'd ask a question about Carle. It's fantasy-oriented, since he's on a keeper roster of mine, but it's also a matter of curiosity in general. He's always been touted as a very good offensive defenseman but aside from one year in San Jose, his stats have never matched his reputation. I can tell from watching him that he has skill but I don't see him frequently enough to understand why it only seems to manifest in bursts where he'll put up a PPG+ for 5 or 6 games and then do nothing for 10 or 15. Of course, he's a young guy and there's a growth and maturation process that you'd have to expect but he's seemed to regress considerably since his first full season.

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01-04-2010, 07:35 PM
  #46
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Completely. I don't even know how Montreal homers could have liked him. Okay, he was physical. That's all he brought to the table.

BTW, since I'm here, I figured I'd ask a question about Carle. It's fantasy-oriented, since he's on a keeper roster of mine, but it's also a matter of curiosity in general. He's always been touted as a very good offensive defenseman but aside from one year in San Jose, his stats have never matched his reputation. I can tell from watching him that he has skill but I don't see him frequently enough to understand why it only seems to manifest in bursts where he'll put up a PPG+ for 5 or 6 games and then do nothing for 10 or 15. Of course, he's a young guy and there's a growth and maturation process that you'd have to expect but he's seemed to regress considerably since his first full season.
I really like the guy (took a lot of heat for it last year), but I'd be really surprised if he ever broke 45 points.

I think he has good puckmoving and stickhandling skills, but his shot is nothing to write home about and he's pretty slow which hinders his ability to get up and join the rush.

The common denominator for almost all d-men who put up a lot of points is a good shot. A good shot scores goals and also creates rebounds and tip chances that lead to assists. Carle doesn't have that, plus he plays with Pronger, so Pronger's the one on that pairing doing most of the shooting.

I think he'll put up 35-40 points and a pretty good +/-, but I don't think he'll ever be an elite offensive d-man.

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01-04-2010, 07:37 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandinho View Post
Dude, you have no idea what you're talking about. Brooks Orpik is a better skater than Alex Goligoski will ever be. Too slow for the NHL? Ummm...what?



Okay, I'm starting to think that many of you simply aren't familiar with Orpik's game at all. He isn't an offensive dynamo but he's perfectly capable of carrying the puck and he's a fantastic skater. Hell, the whole reason that he was such a highly touted prospect was because he combined size and skating ability like few others. He's the PERFECT style of defenseman for this kind of tournament. Big and strong enough to handle a physical team like Canada and sleek and agile enough to handle a finesse team like Russia.
You just called Brooks Orpik sleek. I don't know why but I got a big chuckle out of that. He's an intense, scary looking dude. "Sleek" just made me chuckle a lot.

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01-04-2010, 07:41 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
You just called Brooks Orpik sleek. I don't know why but I got a big chuckle out of that. He's an intense, scary looking dude. "Sleek" just made me chuckle a lot.
Intense and scary doesn't begin to describe him. The dude seems like he'd be a serial killer if he didn't play hockey. There's no life in his eyes. But as for sleek...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXsk_qZTvLo

That kind of play is as much a product of excellent mobility as it is physicality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
I really like the guy (took a lot of heat for it last year), but I'd be really surprised if he ever broke 45 points.

I think he has good puckmoving and stickhandling skills, but his shot is nothing to write home about and he's pretty slow which hinders his ability to get up and join the rush.

The common denominator for almost all d-men who put up a lot of points is a good shot. A good shot scores goals and also creates rebounds and tip chances that lead to assists. Carle doesn't have that, plus he plays with Pronger, so Pronger's the one on that pairing doing most of the shooting.

I think he'll put up 35-40 points and a pretty good +/-, but I don't think he'll ever be an elite offensive d-man.
Makes sense. Thanks.

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01-04-2010, 07:48 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Brandinho View Post
Intense and scary doesn't begin to describe him. The dude seems like he'd be a serial killer if he didn't play hockey. There's no life in his eyes. But as for sleek...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXsk_qZTvLo

That kind of play is as much a product of excellent mobility as it is physicality.
Brooks Orpik is a good player, true story. But that doesn't have anything to do with him being sleek, lol.


Sleek -

1. Smooth and lustrous as if polished; glossy
2. Well-groomed and neatly tailored.
3. Healthy or well-fed



I totally get what you're saying, it's just the word you used made me laugh. I'm picturing Brooks Orpik as a 007 type, made me laugh.

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01-04-2010, 07:56 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Brooks Orpik is a good player, true story. But that doesn't have anything to do with him being sleek, lol.


Sleek -

1. Smooth and lustrous as if polished; glossy
2. Well-groomed and neatly tailored.
3. Healthy or well-fed



I totally get what you're saying, it's just the word you used made me laugh. I'm picturing Brooks Orpik as a 007 type, made me laugh.
The first definition fits what I was saying, but I'm not here to debate semantics. The image of Orpik with his hair slicked back in a tux is pretty damn funny, though. Actually, no, if I saw that I'd run for my life.

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