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12-29-2009, 06:18 AM
  #51
howztheglass
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
I think most of us who are optimistic about the future feel that in 2 to 3 years both Drury and Rozy will be gone and Redden likely in Hartford or waived. That fact alone would mean that the team will have cap room for another Gaborik like UFA signing...so that the propects listed above won't all need to be elite talents, but rather supporting cast members. If a guy like Stepan turns out to be a 1st line center even better.
That was my point when I wrote the thread yesterday.Hopefully with in 2-3 years all 3 will be gone and we will have more then enough cap space to sign whom they want.Youth will be served and mix in some vets and we have the making of a really good team.

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12-29-2009, 06:29 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by howztheglass View Post
That was my point when I wrote the thread yesterday.Hopefully with in 2-3 years all 3 will be gone and we will have more then enough cap space to sign whom they want.Youth will be served and mix in some vets and we have the making of a really good team.
Plus if you add up the total of players who should not be on the team take $22.9 million off the cap.The way I see it.

Redden $6.5
Drury $7.0
Rosi $5.0
Kotalik $3.0
Brash $1.4

Total $22.9 million

If you want add Higgins(I think the Rangers should keep him)
Higgins $2.2

You have over 25 million that could come off the cap.


With the cap room and youth that could be added to the team they have the making of being a very good team for years to come.

That is unless Sather give out contracts to crappy players like he loves to do.

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12-29-2009, 07:53 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by howztheglass View Post
That was my point when I wrote the thread yesterday.Hopefully with in 2-3 years all 3 will be gone and we will have more then enough cap space to sign whom they want.Youth will be served and mix in some vets and we have the making of a really good team.
How in the world is that a good thing?

Step 1: Free up cap space.
Step 2: ***** and moan about the contracts Sather gave out.
Step 3: Try to get cap space.

Repeat as necessary.

It seems everyone wants to clear cap space to take a swim in the FA pool. People seem to forget just how unsuccessful that has been for us with Sather at the helm. Do we really want to dump Redden in the minors just so he can go out and offer Olli Jokinen $7MM per for the next 5 years?

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12-29-2009, 08:03 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
How in the world is that a good thing?

Step 1: Free up cap space.
Step 2: ***** and moan about the contracts Sather gave out.
Step 3: Try to get cap space.

Repeat as necessary.

It seems everyone wants to clear cap space to take a swim in the FA pool. People seem to forget just how unsuccessful that has been for us with Sather at the helm. Do we really want to dump Redden in the minors just so he can go out and offer Olli Jokinen $7MM per for the next 5 years?
I just puked

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12-29-2009, 08:31 AM
  #55
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I just had a dream last night that i was on this website, i think it was MSG.com and there was a total upheaval of the Rangers management. It Said "Tortorella OUT", Sather OUT, Trotenten In as GM... and some other moves i coulnt make out. At first i read it as Trottier and i flipped out but looked closer and saw that it was a picture of Thomas Sandstrom. Who the **** Trotenten is I have no idea.

But he would probably be a better GM then Sather so i'm all for it.

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12-29-2009, 08:55 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
It seems everyone wants to clear cap space to take a swim in the FA pool. People seem to forget just how unsuccessful that has been for us with Sather at the helm. Do we really want to dump Redden in the minors just so he can go out and offer Olli Jokinen $7MM per for the next 5 years?
Honestly, you run the risk of getting to the UFA pool and finding an aging Jokinen is the best catch in there. Just like it was true of Drury, Gomez and Redden, you have the choice to ice a mediocre but overpaid team, or a team with gaping holes in the name of cap space.

I'd also be concerned that a UFA is going to find NYR a less desirable place knowing a UFA contract was buried in the AHL to make the offer. You can be sure the NHLPA won't be amused that a member with a precedent setting contract was embarrassed regardless of the situation and that they'll be in the ear of UFA's looking to sign in NY.

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12-29-2009, 09:36 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Honestly, you run the risk of getting to the UFA pool and finding an aging Jokinen is the best catch in there. Just like it was true of Drury, Gomez and Redden, you have the choice to ice a mediocre but overpaid team, or a team with gaping holes in the name of cap space.

I'd also be concerned that a UFA is going to find NYR a less desirable place knowing a UFA contract was buried in the AHL to make the offer. You can be sure the NHLPA won't be amused that a member with a precedent setting contract was embarrassed regardless of the situation and that they'll be in the ear of UFA's looking to sign in NY.
I agree. All legitimate concerns.

Free agency should be used to put a team over the top, not to try and get them out of mediocrity. This is why I'm so against Kovalchuk. Even if you add him to our lineup, we're still stuck with the same underachieving players behind him. The Achilles heel of his team since the lockout has always been lack of depth.

Why are teams like San Jose, Pittsburgh, and Chicago successful? Is it because they have stars in their lineup? Sure, but more importantly, it's because they have the players in their lineup that will contribute when those stars start to falter. J. Staal, Versteeg, Setoguchi, Clowe, etc. We have Gaborik, and then we take a nose-dive into the "lack of talent" pool. You add Kovalchuk, and then we have one extra step before we see that drastic dip in talent. That's just not enough to be competitive in this league, and you can't hang your hat on guys like Grachev, Stepan, and Kreider, who I absolutely love, but are still question marks.

We're not at the point where we can say "We're set at this position." Our blue line looks promising, but even then we're counting on a lot of things to go right. It's certainly easy to watch guys like Kreider and Stepan tear up the WJC's and start chomping at the bit to get them into the lineup, but it's just never that simple. These guys are raw, have no professional experience, and certainly have some holes in their game.

It's a lousy situation, IMO. If Sather had played his hand correctly, we'd be inserting Gaborik into a balanced lineup featuring an all-star goalie, a solid defensive core, and at least one equally talented forward up front. Instead, we're really just going in circles. Do I want to think that we'll have one of the better, home-grown lineups in a few years? Yeah, I do, but as someone who's been a fan of this team for 20 or so years, I have to be a little pessimistic.

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12-29-2009, 10:07 AM
  #58
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we need size AND physical play up front as well as in front of our own net.

We will never get past the 2nd round without it, even with Lundqvist & Gabby.

AA has size and uses it well for positioning etc, and I think he will be a solid pivot, but we need wingers who hit like Cally but have 20-30 more pound of muscle and can put the puck in the net 20-25 times in 80 games.

We need at least one D-man who will punish opposing forwards in front of Henrik.

Not talking about goons/enforcers/fighters

Been saying this since the first playoff appearance (notice I didn't say "run") after the lockout.

Why, why why can't we be a more physical team? Who is it that doesn't see this? Look at the teams that are go deep year after year.

we have had time to build, and this is what we have/had? Drury? Gomez? Redden?

I love it that we got Gaborik, but we need the rest of the pie. Give me a Guerin or other seasoned winger that knows how to get the job done.

I hate watching this soft team. it sucks. and that has a lot to do with the lack of effort that is driving everyone nuts. When they play hard, they can win, but they can't play hard every night because they either do not have the size & physical strength, or the mental wherewithal to maintain that type of play night in and night out.

getting very frustrating after 5 years of "coming close" to being compatitive...

bah

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12-29-2009, 11:49 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Honestly, you run the risk of getting to the UFA pool and finding an aging Jokinen is the best catch in there. Just like it was true of Drury, Gomez and Redden, you have the choice to ice a mediocre but overpaid team, or a team with gaping holes in the name of cap space.

I'd also be concerned that a UFA is going to find NYR a less desirable place knowing a UFA contract was buried in the AHL to make the offer. You can be sure the NHLPA won't be amused that a member with a precedent setting contract was embarrassed regardless of the situation and that they'll be in the ear of UFA's looking to sign in NY.
what precedent setting contract are you referring to?

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12-29-2009, 12:26 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
what precedent setting contract are you referring to?
Which one will still be on the books 2-3 years from now?

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12-29-2009, 02:10 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Free agency should be used to put a team over the top, not to try and get them out of mediocrity. This is why I'm so against Kovalchuk.

We have Gaborik, and then we take a nose-dive into the "lack of talent" pool. You add Kovalchuk, and then we have one extra step before we see that drastic dip in talent.


Although it probably won’t happen, adding Kovalchuk isn’t just adding “another scorer”.
The guy is as elite, as Gaborik and on the second line would give us as good a “one two punch”
As Malkin and Crosby. It wouldn’t erase other issues, but it would improve this team considerably
On the offensive side.

What we have now is a plethora of 3rd line, sub par 2nd line talent who we are depending upon for primarily
Scoring. If you haven’t noticed, they’re failing miserably at it. Expectations were set too high for a lot of these
Guys for the sole reason is we don’t have enough true top six talent.

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12-29-2009, 02:29 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
Although it probably won’t happen, adding Kovalchuk isn’t just adding “another scorer”.
The guy is as elite, as Gaborik and on the second line would give us as good a “one two punch”
As Malkin and Crosby. It wouldn’t erase other issues, but it would improve this team considerably
On the offensive side.

What we have now is a plethora of 3rd line, sub par 2nd line talent who we are depending upon for primarily
Scoring. If you haven’t noticed, they’re failing miserably at it. Expectations were set too high for a lot of these
Guys for the sole reason is we don’t have enough true top six talent.
Which is why I made a point of saying the real reason a team like Pittsburgh is so good is because they have guys who will step it up when the stars aren't performing.

I'm fully aware of how good Kovalchuk is. That doesn't change the fact that two star forwards don't make a team unless they have the right support, which we can't give to either of them.

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12-29-2009, 02:38 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Special View Post
we need size AND physical play up front as well as in front of our own net.
We will never get past the 2nd round without it, even with Lundqvist & Gabby.

AA has size and uses it well for positioning etc, and I think he will be a solid pivot, but we need wingers who hit like Cally but have 20-30 more pound of muscle and can put the puck in the net 20-25 times in 80 games.

We need at least one D-man who will punish opposing forwards in front of Henrik.

Not talking about goons/enforcers/fighters

Been saying this since the first playoff appearance (notice I didn't say "run") after the lockout.

Why, why why can't we be a more physical team? Who is it that doesn't see this? Look at the teams that are go deep year after year.

we have had time to build, and this is what we have/had? Drury? Gomez? Redden?

I love it that we got Gaborik, but we need the rest of the pie. Give me a Guerin or other seasoned winger that knows how to get the job done.

I hate watching this soft team. it sucks. and that has a lot to do with the lack of effort that is driving everyone nuts. When they play hard, they can win, but they can't play hard every night because they either do not have the size & physical strength, or the mental wherewithal to maintain that type of play night in and night out.

getting very frustrating after 5 years of "coming close" to being compatitive...

bah
My outlook and opinion of this team also. To the tee.

First sentence is why this franchise will remain mediocre.

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12-29-2009, 02:38 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
How in the world is that a good thing?

Step 1: Free up cap space.
Step 2: ***** and moan about the contracts Sather gave out.
Step 3: Try to get cap space.

Repeat as necessary.

It seems everyone wants to clear cap space to take a swim in the FA pool. People seem to forget just how unsuccessful that has been for us with Sather at the helm. Do we really want to dump Redden in the minors just so he can go out and offer Olli Jokinen $7MM per for the next 5 years?

That has Sather written all over it LMAO, that would be Drury situation all over again. If we can somehow free up space to make a run at Kovalchuk, that's fine. If not we need to stand pat. Something tells me however that if Kovy isn't playing for Rangers then 1 or 2 of Hejduk, Jokinen, Frolov, Demitra, Selanne will.

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12-29-2009, 03:05 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Which is why I made a point of saying the real reason a team like Pittsburgh is so good is because they have guys who will step it up when the stars aren't performing.

I'm fully aware of how good Kovalchuk is. That doesn't change the fact that two star forwards don't make a team unless they have the right support, which we can't give to either of them.
We have only 2-3 true top six forwards on this team. We are asking the remaining forwards to produce at a level they are incapable of, at the moment. Bringing in more true top six talent can take pressure off alot of guys so that they can excel in their supporting roles.

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12-29-2009, 03:15 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Which is why I made a point of saying the real reason a team like Pittsburgh is so good is because they have guys who will step it up when the stars aren't performing.

I'm fully aware of how good Kovalchuk is. That doesn't change the fact that two star forwards don't make a team unless they have the right support, which we can't give to either of them.
I'm not knocking the talent of the Pens, it's there, but you really can't compare that franchise to the NYR in any way shape or form.
They are the pet project of Bettman and the NHL.

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12-29-2009, 04:24 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Honestly, you run the risk of getting to the UFA pool and finding an aging Jokinen is the best catch in there. Just like it was true of Drury, Gomez and Redden, you have the choice to ice a mediocre but overpaid team, or a team with gaping holes in the name of cap space.

I'd also be concerned that a UFA is going to find NYR a less desirable place knowing a UFA contract was buried in the AHL to make the offer. You can be sure the NHLPA won't be amused that a member with a precedent setting contract was embarrassed regardless of the situation and that they'll be in the ear of UFA's looking to sign in NY.
I don't think that's as big an issue as you think it could be. the Devils have buried guys in the Minors since the Lock out. Sather buried John Mc Clean there years ago.

Everyone wan't to play for the Rangers, I don't think that will ever be an issue getting UFA's to play here. The Rangers get who they want 90% of the time perhaps even more than that once a player hits the open market.

I think the issue will be is taht teh Rangers won't be tossing around the ridiculous Millions & NTC's & NMC's as they have in the past.

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12-29-2009, 04:32 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Special View Post
we need size AND physical play up front as well as in front of our own net.

We will never get past the 2nd round without it, even with Lundqvist & Gabby.

AA has size and uses it well for positioning etc, and I think he will be a solid pivot, but we need wingers who hit like Cally but have 20-30 more pound of muscle and can put the puck in the net 20-25 times in 80 games.

We need at least one D-man who will punish opposing forwards in front of Henrik.

Not talking about goons/enforcers/fighters

Been saying this since the first playoff appearance (notice I didn't say "run") after the lockout.

Why, why why can't we be a more physical team? Who is it that doesn't see this? Look at the teams that are go deep year after year.

we have had time to build, and this is what we have/had? Drury? Gomez? Redden?

I love it that we got Gaborik, but we need the rest of the pie. Give me a Guerin or other seasoned winger that knows how to get the job done.

I hate watching this soft team. it sucks. and that has a lot to do with the lack of effort that is driving everyone nuts. When they play hard, they can win, but they can't play hard every night because they either do not have the size & physical strength, or the mental wherewithal to maintain that type of play night in and night out.

getting very frustrating after 5 years of "coming close" to being compatitive...

bah
Right On!

I've said it before, I was against signing Gaborik, I still am. I'd trade him right now if it was up to me. Sure he's putting up mad numbers and on a sick scroing pace, yes, I know he's a superstar player, etc. But he isn't help this team in anyway other than more jersey sales and tickets, which are afterall most important to Dolan etc. Anyway though, like others have said, we're just going around in a circle with this. We're not winning with the crap we ice, Trxjw said it right, Gabby would've been ideal if we already had our team in place, we don't, so he's useless in the real big picture.


Sign FA Colby Armstrong
Take Adv. of Chicago's cap issues and get Buff here

those are two things right there we can do this offseason to help

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12-29-2009, 04:51 PM
  #69
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Ryan and Werek are not going to be ready in 3 years. Those guys are more like 4-5 years away. Unless our current players like Dubi and Cally really make leaps and bounds, a team full of rookies and some suspect players will not be what I call an ideal playoff team. We'll need some big UFA dumps (Redden and Drury) replaced with some great UFA signings (Kovy, ???) and the D is gonna need some serious growth. There is a great deal to look forward to but it's not a set in stone we will rock you team.
This is one thing i dont get about many people that are Rangers affiliates, this attitude that young players are too young. Forget that open your eyes, 18 years olds are capable to play and play above average so why would a guy like Werek or Ryan who i assume is atleast 18-19 or older not be ready in 2 years, i dont get that. If there not ready at that point, what would make them ready a year latter. Also i have no problem building a team around young players.

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12-29-2009, 05:01 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by howztheglass View Post
Looking at the glass half full instead of half empty.Lets take a look at how the NY Rangers could look in 2-3 years.

Grachev
Stepan
Kreider
Dubi
Cally
Werek
Weise
Arty
Bourque
Lisin
Byers

and of course--Gabby

Def

MDZ
Staal
Sangs
Gilroy
McDonagh
Kund
Heik
Sauer
Williams

Now this is not the order that I believe the players will be listed just a look into the future--I for one have to admit things could be looking very nice for us.

Some may be moved(and I might have left someone off the list) but hopefully Sather doesn't get greedy and thinks how good this team could look.

What does everyone think.
Your post is fairly optimistic. There is no way that all those prospects turn out and there is a fair chance that half of them will be bottom 6 or bottom pair players tbh. With Glen Sather at the helm we will almost always be led by players from out of the drafting system. The future looks good but the more important part is how many of them will be top 6 players with youth.

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12-29-2009, 06:10 PM
  #71
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Right On!

I've said it before, I was against signing Gaborik, I still am. I'd trade him right now if it was up to me. Sure he's putting up mad numbers and on a sick scroing pace, yes, I know he's a superstar player, etc. But he isn't help this team in anyway other than more jersey sales and tickets, which are afterall most important to Dolan etc. Anyway though, like others have said, we're just going around in a circle with this. We're not winning with the crap we ice, Trxjw said it right, Gabby would've been ideal if we already had our team in place, we don't, so he's useless in the real big picture.


Sign FA Colby Armstrong
Take Adv. of Chicago's cap issues and get Buff here

those are two things right there we can do this offseason to help
Well, I don't think Gaborik is useless in the big picture, I actually think he has considerable importance in terms of mentoring our young players. He's a worker, has a great attitude, and is a team player.

I love Armstrong. I've been a fan of his since I moved to Pittsburgh and started paying more attention to their team. Was really surprised they moved him for Hossa, but I think its a safe bet that Atlanta will retain him. He's a fan favorite there and is well-liked by his teammates.

Buff is too inconsistent for my liking. Especially at his salary. I'd much rather target Versteeg from Chicago.

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01-05-2010, 05:23 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by howztheglass View Post
Looking at the glass half full instead of half empty.Lets take a look at how the NY Rangers could look in 2-3 years.

Grachev
Stepan
Kreider
Dubi
Cally
Werek
Weise
Arty
Bourque
Lisin
Byers

and of course--Gabby

Def

MDZ
Staal
Sangs
Gilroy
McDonagh
Kund
Heik
Sauer
Williams

Now this is not the order that I believe the players will be listed just a look into the future--I for one have to admit things could be looking very nice for us.

Some may be moved(and I might have left someone off the list) but hopefully Sather doesn't get greedy and thinks how good this team could look.

What does everyone think.
While I admit that not all of these players will turn out to be stars--anyone watching the WJC a few players have stood out for team USA.

Stepan
Kreider
Bourque

All 3 would be more fun watching on the Rangers then most of our third and fourth liners not that that's going to happen but the future sure does look bright.

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01-05-2010, 05:29 PM
  #73
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I dont get it...you guys seem excited about the prospects but dont think the rangers will be good w/ sather at the helm....who do you think got and kept those prospects?

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01-05-2010, 05:45 PM
  #74
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I dont get it...you guys seem excited about the prospects but dont think the rangers will be good w/ sather at the helm....who do you think got and kept those prospects?
I think the concern is the way he throws money at veterans, they will not be able to afford to keep these prospects.

Of course, he's been here a decade and the team is still not all that good.

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01-05-2010, 06:08 PM
  #75
morffin
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: CT
Country: United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I think the concern is the way he throws money at veterans, they will not be able to afford to keep these prospects.

Of course, he's been here a decade and the team is still not all that good.
yeah but the reason hes overpaid for trash like redder is that the system didnt dev players good enough to play in the NHL..and when it did they were traded away.

the NHL team is one of the youngest in the lg and our player dev. is one of the top rated in the lg.

Ive been dreaming of this for decades.

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