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Old
01-06-2010, 01:25 PM
  #51
Trxjw
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
O'Sullivan is two years younger and is doing marginally better this season (more points, but also a -18).

I would take O'Sullivan over Higgins, but they're not far apart... at all.
Right, that's basically what I'm getting at. Sully is more productive this season but Higgins has proven more. The value is close to a wash.

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01-06-2010, 01:26 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Uh...no and no.
Cole:
6 goals, 8 points, -9.

Higgins:
5 goals, 11 points, -9.


Cole is 31 years old, we could be witnessing his decline.

Higgins is 26 years old, he's young, he still has a lot of years of good hockey in him.

Higgins > Cole.

Justin Williams vastly under-produced last year, and he isn't doing MUCH better this year. He's on pace for only 15 goals.

Williams in 28 years old.


It's not that far off.

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01-06-2010, 01:27 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
What exactly has O'Sullivan done to prove that he's more valuable than Higgins?

Nothing.

He's a nice little player. With some good skills. But he's small and hasn't really been all that impressive over the long course of a season.

This team needs to be careful. We already have way too many smallish, passive players. This team needs more offensive skills, more size and more toughness...more character and balls.

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01-06-2010, 01:27 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
don't bother with the Oiler fans... look at their board and their prosposals for Marc Staal on it.


I saw that thread. Yikes.


Still, it's not just Oilers fans. It happens with every team; A fan base is dying to get rid of a player, until they get a fair offer that really demonstrates just how low that players value is. That's the point where you go from "Get rid of this guy!" to "You don't understand his potential!"

I like Sully as a Ranger. He has better hands than Higgins, but isn't as competent defensively and doesn't play with as much grit. Still, that's a trade off I think this team could make and eventually benefit from. We have less of a need for the grinder that scores 20 in front of the net and plays defense, than we do the guy who scores 20 while sacrificing some defense to generate more offense for his linemates. Ultimately the same production, but a better fit in terms of personnel.


Last edited by Trxjw: 01-06-2010 at 01:48 PM.
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01-06-2010, 01:35 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Cole:
6 goals, 8 points, -9.

Higgins:
5 goals, 11 points, -9.


Cole is 31 years old, we could be witnessing his decline.

Higgins is 26 years old, he's young, he still has a lot of years of good hockey in him.

Higgins > Cole.

Justin Williams vastly under-produced last year, and he isn't doing MUCH better this year. He's on pace for only 15 goals.

Williams in 28 years old.


It's not that far off.
Injuries have slowed both Cole and Williams. Injuries aside, I'd rather have either than Higgins. Both are better players when healthy, especially Williams.

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01-06-2010, 01:41 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Injuries have slowed both Cole and Williams. Injuries aside, I'd rather have either than Higgins. Both are better players when healthy, especially Williams.
I don't want anything to do with Cole at this point in his career. It's all downhill from here.

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01-06-2010, 01:44 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Injuries have slowed both Cole and Williams. Injuries aside, I'd rather have either than Higgins. Both are better players when healthy, especially Williams.
Well the point is that

Higgins = O'Sullivan

in value.


But, i'd rather have Sully.

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01-06-2010, 01:51 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Well the point is that

Higgins = O'Sullivan

in value.


But, i'd rather have Sully.
Of course you would, because they aren't actually equal in value. That's the point.

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01-06-2010, 01:51 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post


I saw that thread. Yikes.


Still, it's not just Oilers fans. It happens with every team; A fan base is dying to get rid of a player, until they get a fair offer that really demonstrates just how low that players value is. That's the point where you go from "Get rid of this guy!" to "You don't understand his potential!"

Still, I like Sully as a Ranger. He has better hands than Higgins, but isn't as competent defensively and doesn't play with as much grit. Still, that's a trade off I think this team could make and eventually benefit from. We have less of a need for the grinder that scores 20 in front of the net and plays defense, than we do the guy who scores 20 while sacrificing some defense to generate more offense for his linemates. Ultimately the same production, but a better fit in terms of personnel.
so true.... especially since we have Byers, Weise and Dupont who could all fill grinder roles waiting in the minors, and still have plenty of grinders on the team currently.

we need skill players and need some fast.

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01-06-2010, 01:52 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
I don't want anything to do with Cole at this point in his career. It's all downhill from here.
Yeah, because the sky's the limit with Higgins.

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01-06-2010, 01:56 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Yeah, because the sky's the limit with Higgins.
Higgins is clearly having a rough year, but he's 26 and has scored 20+ what, 4 times? I can think of plenty of players who have had one complete crap year and rebounded to have 5+ consecutive years of excellent numbers.

Graves had 17 goals the year after he had 52.

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01-06-2010, 01:58 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Higgins is clearly having a rough year, but he's 26 and has scored 20+ what, 4 times? I can think of plenty of players who have had one complete crap year and rebounded to have 5+ consecutive years of excellent numbers.

Graves had 17 goals the year after he had 52.
Graves had 17 goals during the 48 game lockout season AND he was coming off of back surgery.

No comparison.

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01-06-2010, 02:00 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Higgins is clearly having a rough year, but he's 26 and has scored 20+ what, 4 times? I can think of plenty of players who have had one complete crap year and rebounded to have 5+ consecutive years of excellent numbers.

Graves had 17 goals the year after he had 52.
Agree...some people here, who supposedly spout on and on about future this and young guys are also the same people who are the first to ***** about an off year. I thought young players took time? Not that Higgins is super young, but my god he's 26!? Sheesh....

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01-06-2010, 02:00 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Graves had 17 goals during the 48 game lockout season AND he was coming off of back surgery.

No comparison.
How about the 17 or 18 goals he had COMBINED in his first 3 seasons? That better?

23 goals in 217 games to start his career to be specific.

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01-06-2010, 02:01 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
How about the 17 or 18 goals he had COMBINED in his first 3 seasons? That better?
Agreed again..and off the top of my head, what about Mike Knuble? Remember him? whatd he do here? Whatd he do when he left? Your absolutely right....and as I said..some people here just dont get it.

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01-06-2010, 02:04 PM
  #66
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Wasn't this rumor out there last month?
yep

but because some wannabe ekputz wants to be the flavour of the month--the rumour stays alive

bottom line is both teams are rearranging chairs on the titanic

after NYE and how they handled it--Ethen Moraue needs to get driven out of Edmonton-- Souray--who was reportedly not there is the one who stood up and said something

from the oiler perspective--we are not interested in taking contracts(in cap hell) or taking vets over 30

is Bob Sanguinetti available for a package based around Cogliano

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The twenty year rebuild is on!!! Embrace the suck
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01-06-2010, 02:05 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
Nothing.

He's a nice little player. With some good skills. But he's small and hasn't really been all that impressive over the long course of a season.

This team needs to be careful. We already have way too many smallish, passive players. This team needs more offensive skills, more size and more toughness...more character and balls.
That's true, but you can't pass up opportunities to fill one hole because it doesn't fill all of them. Would I love to bring in a power forward who is good for 30 goals and can wear a C or an A? Sure, but that's a very tough player to find. Sometimes you need to piece something together, rather than buy it all in one box.

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01-06-2010, 02:07 PM
  #68
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How about Zach Parise's rookie year - 32 points in 82 games with 14 being goals? Dubinsky's rookie year was better by comparison. Higgins is on a one year contract and he clearly wants to be here. He plays well defensively, battles for the puck well, good on the PK, etc.... He's snakebit, but there's no way I trade him for some ****** that's got the same amount of points to make a trade for the sake of making a trade. His contract is coming off the books if we don't want to re-sign him and I'll take that over moving him in the hopes that his 2nd half is that much better than his first.

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01-06-2010, 02:10 PM
  #69
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How about the 17 or 18 goals he had COMBINED in his first 3 seasons? That better?

23 goals in 217 games to start his career to be specific.
You should stop before you dig a deeper hole.

What do the first 3 seasons of the career of Adam Graves have to do with Chris Higgins as a 26/27 year old?

Graves was mostly used as a center with the Wings when they had Yzerman,Oates and Burr ahead of him on the depth chart. Then he was traded to Edmonton in the Jimmy Carson deal and centered the kid line with Jo Jo Murphy and Marty Gelinas.

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01-06-2010, 02:12 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Higgins is clearly having a rough year, but he's 26 and has scored 20+ what, 4 times? I can think of plenty of players who have had one complete crap year and rebounded to have 5+ consecutive years of excellent numbers.

Graves had 17 goals the year after he had 52.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diehardfan419 View Post
Agree...some people here, who supposedly spout on and on about future this and young guys are also the same people who are the first to ***** about an off year. I thought young players took time? Not that Higgins is super young, but my god he's 26!? Sheesh....
Higgins isn't having an "off year" and he isn't having a "rough year." He's playing the same way he played in MTL. The only reason he scored more there than he is here is because he played with better linemates there.

Do you people actually watch hockey, or do you just sit and look at stats? This is the same Chris Higgins. Same thing. He blew tons of chances there, too.

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01-06-2010, 02:17 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
You should stop before you dig a deeper hole.

What do the first 3 seasons of the career of Adam Graves have to do with Chris Higgins as a 26/27 year old?

Graves was mostly used as a center with the Wings when they had Yzerman,Oates and Burr ahead of him on the depth chart. Then he was traded to Edmonton in the Jimmy Carson deal and centered the kid line with Jo Jo Murphy and Marty Gelinas.
Yeah, and you were using your crystal ball and just knew he was going to score 52 goals after being traded here, right? Get off it.

The whole point is that ONE BAD HALF SEASON does not make a career, particularly when you're talking about a guy that's scored 20+ 3 times in 4 seasons and is 26 freakin' years old.

Do you really want or need a more specific example than Graves? Tony Amonte had 17 goals, combined, in 1993-4 for the Rangers and 'Hawks. He scored 30+ for the next 6 years and the two before that.

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01-06-2010, 02:29 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Do you people actually watch hockey, or do you just sit and look at stats? This is the same Chris Higgins. Same thing. He blew tons of chances there, too.
Yeah, actually, I make a point of it to watch every night. That's why I spent nearly $200 on Center Ice.

And, FYI, your line mates don't score goals for you and you can't dismiss 3 20 goal seasons because he happens to be playing with good players. Then you could dismiss just about every player in the league.

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01-06-2010, 02:31 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Yeah, and you were using your crystal ball and just knew he was going to score 52 goals after being traded here, right? Get off it.

The whole point is that ONE BAD HALF SEASON does not make a career, particularly when you're talking about a guy that's scored 20+ 3 times in 4 seasons and is 26 freakin' years old.

Do you really want or need a more specific example than Graves? Tony Amonte had 17 goals, combined, in 1993-4 for the Rangers and 'Hawks. He scored 30+ for the next 6 years and the two before that.
a good example is the guy right across the river. Langenbrunner.

His goal totals: 22, 10, 19, 23, 13, 29 and is on pace for 26 g and 74pts this year.

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01-06-2010, 02:35 PM
  #74
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That's true, but you can't pass up opportunities to fill one hole because it doesn't fill all of them. Would I love to bring in a power forward who is good for 30 goals and can wear a C or an A? Sure, but that's a very tough player to find. Sometimes you need to piece something together, rather than buy it all in one box.
True, but you can't keep trying to fill perceived holes/weaknesses, with more players who have the same weakneses/shorcomings that already plague your team. That's just spinning yourm wheels and making changes for the sake of change.

Even moreso if your going to foolishly trade away a player like Dubinsky ...or Callahan....or another important part of your team. Makes zero sense.

You look to fill holes and strengthen weaknesses without opening up and creating weaknesses in other areas or adding to the weaknesses and redundancies you already have.

Better to stand pat, let your kids keep developing, try desperately to some how rid yourself of the putrid vetern contracts that are killing your team (Redden, Rozsival, Drury, Kotalik and Brashear). And then look to get a GM who actually knows what he's doing and gets players (through trades or Free Agency) that truely eliminate your weaknesses and shortcomings.

Every season this team is nothing but a roster filled with 95% redunancies. That's a pathetic testimony to the braindead status quo of Sather and Dolan.

I'm disgusted with this organization and this team's wheel spinning. Every year, with this.....One Step Forward......Two Steps Back. Two Steps Forward....Three Steps Back....approach. It's bullsh*t. Sather doesn't have a clue as to what he's doing and the Oilers aren't much better.

Although, at least the Oilers made the Finals in gthe last 10 years.


Last edited by Jeds2StepOpus: 01-06-2010 at 02:43 PM.
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01-06-2010, 02:37 PM
  #75
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a good example is the guy right across the river. Langenbrunner.

His goal totals: 22, 10, 19, 23, 13, 29 and is on pace for 26 g and 74pts this year.
Great example. Great player, too. I hate the Devils, but I'd love to have some of their guys.

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