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01-07-2010, 01:53 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
I hate to break it to ya, but Lisin's stats are not a whole lot different. Especially when you consider who he played with that 1st month of the season where he got the bulk of his points. But yeah, foot problem, i know......

The fact you use one player playing with an entirely different team under a different system as proof just makes you look like a Hockey novice.
too funny. the great one making another astute observation.

how bout he gets points when he plays. when he doesnt play he doesnt get points. even you realize that right ? again, how many points would higgins or kotalik have if they played 6 min per night, oh great one.

korpikoski is average. period. no matter what system he plays in.

atleast lisin wasnt a 1st round reach like the korpedo was.

korpikoski is a 1st round 4th liner. at best.

ill take lisin thank you very much.

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01-07-2010, 01:59 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
How come no one seems to understand how to use this great offensive talent?

Keep fighting the good fight.
when he played with decent mates and got reasonable minutes, even without any pp time, he still put up numbers comparable to the other wings on this team.

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01-07-2010, 02:01 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
when he played with decent mates and got reasonable minutes, even without any pp time, he still put up numbers comparable to the other wings on this team.
Decent mates? Or do you mean the leagues leading goal scorer?

Where he picked up a few secondary assists, but was otherwise invisible

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01-07-2010, 02:23 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Decent mates? Or do you mean the leagues leading goal scorer?

Where he picked up a few secondary assists, but was otherwise invisible
if true, then whats dubis excuse? or higgins. guys whove played alot more minutes and alot more pp time with gaby..... hmmmm..

and now ec, the latest guy to benefit from gaby

and rozy? who makes a career outa riding jagr and now gaby on the pp.

gimme a break, that argument can be applied to every player on this team.

pretty weak bbr, then again, pretty much what i would expect

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01-07-2010, 02:32 PM
  #30
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I don't know, I would expect that the second most offensively talented player on this team would be able to produce regardless of his line mates.

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01-07-2010, 02:34 PM
  #31
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Enver Lisin has 1 goal and 1 assist in the previous 26 games played. During that time he has played the bulk of his time with either Brian Boyle, or Artem Anisimov as his center. Since that game (oct 28th) Anisimov has 4 goals and 4 assists, and Boyle has 2 goals.

He hasn't outperformed BRIAN BOYLE during that period...Brian Boyle who ONLY plays with Lisin, Brashear, and Voros.

*facepalm*

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01-07-2010, 02:35 PM
  #32
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01-07-2010, 02:38 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
if true, then whats dubis excuse? or higgins. guys whove played alot more minutes and alot more pp time with gaby..... hmmmm..

and now ec, the latest guy to benefit from gaby

and rozy? who makes a career outa riding jagr and now gaby on the pp.

gimme a break, that argument can be applied to every player on this team.

pretty weak bbr, then again, pretty much what i would expect
Brandon Dubinsky is 3rd on the team in points per game. Behind Prospal who has played strictly with Gaborik, and...Gaborik. Dubinsky has played all over the place, but Prospal has played pretty much every minute of every game with Gaborik.

Dubinsky is doing his job..667 ppg translates to 55 points. Thats not too shabby. Enver Lisins PPG translates to 22 points...considering like 80% of his points were secondary assists garnered by Gaborik, thats not all that impressive.

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01-07-2010, 02:41 PM
  #34
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Yeah Dubi is quietly having an improving year. Then again in the back of my mind I see him going through another dry spell and finishing on pace for 40 points again.


The entire point of this thread is that Lisin is not producing. And I see him as an alternate to Gaborik's SH threat. Less Gaborik SH time means more Gaborik even strength and PP time. But if Lisin cant play PK to save his life, we'll find out pretty quick.

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01-07-2010, 02:43 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Enver Lisin has 1 goal and 1 assist in the previous 26 games played. During that time he has played the bulk of his time with either Brian Boyle, or Artem Anisimov as his center. Since that game (oct 28th) Anisimov has 4 goals and 4 assists, and Boyle has 2 goals.

He hasn't outperformed BRIAN BOYLE during that period...Brian Boyle who ONLY plays with Lisin, Brashear, and Voros.

*facepalm*
arty 43 7 8 15 -2 1 0 1 16 50 14 12:09

boyle 41 3 1 4 0 0 0 1 35 45 6.67 8:08

lisin 38 4 6 10 -1 0 0 0 10 63 6.35 11:32

umm..... those guys arent exactly lighting it up and they've played more games and neither had a broken foot for 5 weeks.

faceplam all you want, but weak comparison at best there inferno.

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01-07-2010, 02:43 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Yeah Dubi is quietly having an improving year. Then again in the back of my mind I see him going through another dry spell and finishing on pace for 40 points again.


The entire point of this thread is that Lisin is not producing. And I see him as an alternate to Gaborik's SH threat. Less Gaborik SH time means more Gaborik even strength and PP time. But if Lisin cant play PK to save his life, we'll find out pretty quick.
why risk it though? were a team struggling to score goals, giving up a goal or 2 in an experiment is risky as all hell.

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01-07-2010, 02:46 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
why risk it though? were a team struggling to score goals, giving up a goal or 2 in an experiment is risky as all hell.
Its the kind of thing I would test in games where we have a 2 or 3 goal cushion, or are down by 2 or 3 and need a goal. As a coach, I wouldn't be stupid enough to try Lisin on the PK for the first time in a tie game.

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01-07-2010, 02:48 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Yeah Dubi is quietly having an improving year. Then again in the back of my mind I see him going through another dry spell and finishing on pace for 40 points again.


The entire point of this thread is that Lisin is not producing. And I see him as an alternate to Gaborik's SH threat. Less Gaborik SH time means more Gaborik even strength and PP time. But if Lisin cant play PK to save his life, we'll find out pretty quick.
Lisin, like a lot of the team, isnt producing. But other guys, and Ill use Higgins as the prime example, play a sound game and do other things well on the ice. Lisin does not. He was brought in for his offensive upside and has not been able to deliver. Its not some conspiracy...Lisin gets 5-6 minutes a night because hes not a good hockey player.

Defensively, hes an even bigger disaster, so the PK isnt exactly the place where Lisin is going to find his game or be successful.

The best place for Lisin is in the pressbox, which is where he'll be when Prospal returns.

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01-07-2010, 02:50 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Yeah Dubi is quietly having an improving year. Then again in the back of my mind I see him going through another dry spell and finishing on pace for 40 points again.


The entire point of this thread is that Lisin is not producing. And I see him as an alternate to Gaborik's SH threat. Less Gaborik SH time means more Gaborik even strength and PP time. But if Lisin cant play PK to save his life, we'll find out pretty quick.
i completely understand what your point was. although his speed is a weapon, hes never killed penalties all year so to start now, especially with a team full of pk 3rd liners types seems silly.

i would like to see torts give lisin some pp time and some more time playing with skilled line mates. now that hes healthy playing him 6 minutes per night on the 4th line is counterproductive to attempting to get him to contribute.

ill say it again, put higgins on the 4th line and hell hustle and skate hard, but he wont score jack. same as lisin.

the haters just want to hate on lisin all the while not realizing the team is better with his speed being utilized on one of the lines that gets a regular shift.

im still waiting for proof that hes such an awful defensive player as well. heck, hes only a -1.

higgins and kotalik combined are a terrifying -27

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01-07-2010, 02:50 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
arty 43 7 8 15 -2 1 0 1 16 50 14 12:09

boyle 41 3 1 4 0 0 0 1 35 45 6.67 8:08

lisin 38 4 6 10 -1 0 0 0 10 63 6.35 11:32

umm..... those guys arent exactly lighting it up and they've played more games and neither had a broken foot for 5 weeks.

faceplam all you want, but weak comparison at best there inferno.
Yeah yeah, all I hear is broken foot this and broken foot that.

Hes looked like the same incompetent player for the entire season. Every 15 games or so he makes me jump out of my seat in excitement because I see him finally do something intelligent like have that takeaway and make a beautiful pass to Chris Drury...then Ill see him play a dozen games in a row where he skates in full speed with the puck and then stick handle himself into a corner, or have the puck stripped off his stick like he wasnt even there, or have him take a 75 foot wrist shot that is easily turned aside.

All the tools in the world..the hockey IQ of a turnip. I honestly have trouble remembering which games he had the injury, because his play looked the same with, or without said injury.

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01-07-2010, 02:53 PM
  #41
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I think its also important to point out that the Rangers nosedive began when Lisin was getting more minutes on the first line.

Coincidence?

I certainly dont think so.

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01-07-2010, 02:55 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Yeah yeah, all I hear is broken foot this and broken foot that.

Hes looked like the same incompetent player for the entire season. Every 15 games or so he makes me jump out of my seat in excitement because I see him finally do something intelligent like have that takeaway and make a beautiful pass to Chris Drury...then Ill see him play a dozen games in a row where he skates in full speed with the puck and then stick handle himself into a corner, or have the puck stripped off his stick like he wasnt even there, or have him take a 75 foot wrist shot that is easily turned aside.

All the tools in the world..the hockey IQ of a turnip. I honestly have trouble remembering which games he had the injury, because his play looked the same with, or without said injury.
no thats brandon dubinsky with the hockey iq of a turnip.

players need to play. 6 minutes aint gonna get er done bro.

hate all you want. if he sits on the bench and plays once every 5 minutes, his production will be minimal- not unlike higgins and kotalik were they put in the same situation.

sorry. true.

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01-07-2010, 02:57 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
i think there is an overall positive in having more contributers rather than fewer. gaborik killing penalties does nothing but make him more tired. we are a team full of penalty killers, no need for gaby playing pk.
You say this all the time yet Gaborik sparingly kills penalties and usually it's toward the end of the powerplay in hopes that the guy out of the box comes out and Gaborik's part of an odd-man rush. On top of that I don't know where you get off saying Gaborik gets "tired". He's in phenominal shape, and pretty much right on par in average ice time compared to other top forwards in the league.

The only thing I could see Gaborik being tired from is being tired of being the only one scoring goals.

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01-07-2010, 03:01 PM
  #44
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Just because Lisin is fast doesn't mean he'll be a good penalty killer. I don't know if he's ever done it in the AHL or the past, but there are plenty of guys on our roster that have a history of doing it and doing it well. If we're to teach anyone to PK, I'd prefer we give Anisimov more PK time than he's been getting. He does it sometimes and does a fine job with it.

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01-07-2010, 03:35 PM
  #45
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Well, since i think we can all agree the vast majority of Lisins assists are secondary assists, lets just look at goal production.

Lisin has played 15 minutes or more 10 times this season. In that time he has scored a grand total of 1 goal.

He has played fewer than 15 minutes 28 times. In that time he has scored 3 goals.

Lisin >15 mins of ice time = .1G/G
Lisin <15 mins of ice time = .107G/G

I would argue that he is the identical goal scorer with or without big minutes. Why? Because his hockey IQ is horrendous.

For the record Dubinsky has 7 goals in 28 games playing over 15 minutes or .25 G/G...two and a half times the production of Enver "the second most talented player on this team behind Gaborik" Lisin.

Its interesting to look at the TOI for the games where Lisin has scored a goal...
9:14
17:14
13:38
8:30

There seems to be no correlation between TOI and goal production...as you might expect given he is a player that is invisible for 99% of a game except for once ever dozen games or so where he does something positive.

You want Lisin to score goals? Give him a brain transplant.

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01-07-2010, 03:38 PM
  #46
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I think it's important to understand that Lisin is still developing as a player. Our coaching staff has a pretty talented kid they need to groom into what they want, and that can take some time. I still think Lisin should have started the season in Hartford, playing on a top line with Grachev. 20+ minutes a night. The voids in his game can be credited to a lack of experience. OTCB doesn't make many valid points in his defense of Lisin, but playing a half-dozen minutes a night isn't sufficient ice-time to learn this game. As of right now, there's no chance in hell you can flirt with giving Lisin PK time. He's not competent defensively.

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01-07-2010, 03:45 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
I think it's important to understand that Lisin is still developing as a player. Our coaching staff has a pretty talented kid they need to groom into what they want, and that can take some time. I still think Lisin should have started the season in Hartford, playing on a top line with Grachev. 20+ minutes a night. The voids in his game can be credited to a lack of experience. OTCB doesn't make many valid points in his defense of Lisin, but playing a half-dozen minutes a night isn't sufficient ice-time to learn this game. As of right now, there's no chance in hell you can flirt with giving Lisin PK time. He's not competent defensively.
see, i might agree with you if I thought that he looked overwhelmed at this level. Ive never gotten that sense of him out there. I get the feeling that, by and large, this kid can do what he wants, when he wants to do it. He can zoom past people like they arent there, he can get in deep on the forecheck, he can backcheck, and tries to do all these things, and many of them he does with great success. The problem I have with him is his decision making. His head for the game, his feel on when to do things. The guy has a borderline elite set of tools. hes big, hes fairly strong, hes fast...but hes so effing stupid with the puck. I mean, you dont see him do many smart things out there, and when he actually DOES do something smart, everyone goes ape-**** over it because its so damn rare. Like that takeaway and pass to Drury...thats a BRILLIANT play he made there...but they are so few and far between that i think its simply his lack of hockey IQ thats causing his issues, and not his age.

Can you fix stupid? I dont know...but I do know that if indeed its his hockey iq that is lacking, the last place on earth you want him is on the penalty kill, because intelligence is damn important on the PK. reading the play, knowing when to attack, when to sit back, these are all things that come into play. quick, smart decisions are needed, speed means nothing when you are talking about a contained environment where you are on the defensive.

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01-07-2010, 03:53 PM
  #48
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Not worth the effort Inferno.. OTCB fell in love with Lisin's youtube clip, and hyped him up all summer long. Instead of just admitting he overrated him, he's just digging for excuses to justify his failed opinion. Oh it's his foot's fault.. Oh it's his line-mates fault.. Wah wah wah... Sad part is, despite some of the nice tools Lisin has, he doesn't know how to properly use them. He's a one-dimensional hockey player who isn't anything special offensively. I'll take Korpikoski over Enver any day of the week. Lauri at least understands the game of hockey. Enver, might never 'get-it'... That's why I think some AHL time would have been ideal for him.

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01-07-2010, 03:58 PM
  #49
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yeah, im not sure i get it either...i mean, ive hated on redden, but ive also admitted when hes played well...i spent most of last season defending Drurys play, but this year he has been atrocious. Im not sure anyone who has actually spent time watching Lisin play day in and day out can say he is a good player. I just dont get it. I think hes a 4th liner who every once in a while will wow you with some skill. I think Korpedo fits that role better, but granted doesnt have near the upside that Lisin has if he ever learns how the game of hockey is played at this level.

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01-07-2010, 04:17 PM
  #50
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You know, despite the difference in talent between Lauri and Enver, you rarely notice Enver make smart plays. I know it's not very nice, but I gotta agree with your thoughts about the kids I.Q. He's not a smart player. At all. Period. Period. Period. (That's for you, OCB) Look at Callahan, for example. Can't say he's much of a better skater than Enver. Nor is he as talented with the puck. But his hockey I.Q, combined with his pretty pedestrian attributes, makes him 20X the player Enver will ever be. Talent is so overrated. Yet I.Q is underrated. Some guys know how to play the game, and some guys, ultimately don't. That's why I suggested some AHL time for Enver. Everything is slower there. The kid needs to learn to have some patience when he has the puck, and has to learn a whole lot more when he doesn't have it.

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