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Old
01-07-2010, 11:36 AM
  #51
Bluenote13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
THN gives Gaborik the Hart in their mid season blog awards: http://www.thehockeynews.com/
I can live with Myers for ROTY, but Rask gets consideration over MDZ?

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01-07-2010, 11:39 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
I can live with Myers for ROTY, but Rask gets consideration over MDZ?
No Bergfors either.

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01-07-2010, 11:44 AM
  #53
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Duchene and Bergfors as of right now will garner higher consideration than MDZ.

35 points and -20 on the season isnt going to get the kid a nomination.

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01-07-2010, 01:44 PM
  #54
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I decided to investigate the notion that Lundqvist isn't a top 10 goaltender over the half-season, and in my opinion, the starting tenders definitely ahead of him would be:

Miller, Kiprusoff, Bryzgalov and Brodeur.

I understand that this is partially opinion-based, but which others are having clearly better seasons?

My belief is that those claiming him as not Top 10 are way off in their appraisal.

Dagoon hates him so I understand his opinion.

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01-07-2010, 03:03 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
I can live with Myers for ROTY, but Rask gets consideration over MDZ?
MDZ hasn't been all that special since his great start. Sure, the future looks bright, but get some perspective.

Look at his stats, would you consider a defenseman with 5 G, 16 A, and a -16 rating in 43 games for ROTY if he wasn't a Ranger? I know I wouldn't.

I've said it already in this thread, if MDZ was eligible to go to the AHL we would've sent him down at least as long as Gilroy went down awhile ago.

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01-07-2010, 03:06 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I think his contract and incoming expectations have a little bit to do with it. Plus we are talking about the first half on a whole. Ok maybe a B+... Either way hes played well and hes been a role model for the younger kids... he competes...
I suppose you're right, and I didn't exactly snub him with the grades either, but he's getting higher grades than Lundqvist in some posts.

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01-07-2010, 03:39 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Dagoon hates him so I understand his opinion.
You mean you expect his opinion? Hating someone doesn't make a bad appraisal of their good play understandable, it just allows you to see it coming. The guy has 2 rookies and 2 burnt out old men in front of him. He's putting up the numbers he is with a third of a real defense in support. I'd take him over every goalie in this league except maybe miller. Not just based on stats, but age and expected future play as well. Obviously, brodeur is a beast now but he's got to be close to winding down, whereas hank and miller are on the rise. Brzy is making a huge case for himself, but he hasn't been consistent over his career the way Hank has.

I guess me and my BA in English literature will never get to be a GM of an NHL team I was really planning on that, too. I better go think about my new career choice.

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Old
01-07-2010, 04:01 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
MDZ hasn't been all that special since his great start. Sure, the future looks bright, but get some perspective.

Look at his stats, would you consider a defenseman with 5 G, 16 A, and a -16 rating in 43 games for ROTY if he wasn't a Ranger? I know I wouldn't.

I've said it already in this thread, if MDZ was eligible to go to the AHL we would've sent him down at least as long as Gilroy went down awhile ago.
Yes. And he is a Ranger, thats why his +/- is that low. Its shouldnt be cause he's played pretty steady most of the time. If this team had even strength scoring he'd be just below even if that. But these are just numbers, they don't paint the full picture.

Solid defense along with unreal breakout passes at age 19, yeah he'd get a top 3 vote from me.

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01-07-2010, 04:18 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Yes. And he is a Ranger, thats why his +/- is that low. Its shouldnt be cause he's played pretty steady most of the time. If this team had even strength scoring he'd be just below even if that. But these are just numbers, they don't paint the full picture.

Solid defense along with unreal breakout passes at age 19, yeah he'd get a top 3 vote from me.
I agree... but in fairness to the other rookies i havent seen them play as much. But for 19 hes been impressive on the offensive side of the puck. What i like the most about him is he doesnt back down and can mix it up a bit with the body.

OT - lol at the thread that was just closed. It must be tough being a mod.

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01-07-2010, 04:27 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Dagoon hates him so I understand his opinion.
As a matter of Fact I don't hate him and have done business with him and made great money . Hank is vastly over hyped in NY and I don't let that blind me.


Last edited by Dagoon44: 01-07-2010 at 05:26 PM.
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01-07-2010, 04:29 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
As a matter of Fact I don't hate him and have done business with him and made great money . Hank is vasty over hyped in NY and I don't let that blind me.
No, but something else blinds you because your opinion on the guy is really out there.

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01-07-2010, 04:30 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Yes. And he is a Ranger, thats why his +/- is that low. Its shouldnt be cause he's played pretty steady most of the time. If this team had even strength scoring he'd be just below even if that. But these are just numbers, they don't paint the full picture.

Solid defense along with unreal breakout passes at age 19, yeah he'd get a top 3 vote from me.
BN, you put a lot more thought into the selection than the Professional Hockey Writers Association. It seems like they vote solely based off of simple stats, or hype.

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01-07-2010, 04:32 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I agree... but in fairness to the other rookies i havent seen them play as much. But for 19 hes been impressive on the offensive side of the puck. What i like the most about him is he doesnt back down and can mix it up a bit with the body.

OT - lol at the thread that was just closed. It must be tough being a mod.
I've watched alot of Tavares, Van Riemsdyk, Myers and Bergfors. The other guys who are in the mix are Duchesne, Hedman, and Rask. All these guys are playing great. But what I see from Del Z is pretty special considering his age and the team he's got around him. Myers is huge and has a very good team infront of him. Hedman is also huge but with a similar team to Del Z. Pretty damn good rookie class either way ya look at it.

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01-07-2010, 04:38 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
BN, you put a lot more thought into the selection than the Professional Hockey Writers Association. It seems like they vote solely based off of simple stats, or hype.
And its pretty much always been done that way. But sometimes they get it right and don't go with the highest point producer.

I remember being a pissed off teenager when Amonte didn't win Calder with 35 goals that year. I was like 'Meh, Lidstrom is boring. Some guy who will disappear in a few years' Doh !

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01-07-2010, 05:11 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
MDZ hasn't been all that special since his great start. Sure, the future looks bright, but get some perspective.

Look at his stats, would you consider a defenseman with 5 G, 16 A, and a -16 rating in 43 games for ROTY if he wasn't a Ranger? I know I wouldn't.

I've said it already in this thread, if MDZ was eligible to go to the AHL we would've sent him down at least as long as Gilroy went down awhile ago.
He wouldn't have been sent down. He plays the point better than any player on the team. Gilroy can't play the point, and his break out passes are nowhere near as good as MDZ's. Not to mention that Del Zotto is stronger and is much more physical.

What would be the point in sending him down? Who can bring what he brings and play better defense? Tortorella already tried Sanguinetti and that didn't exactly work out.

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01-07-2010, 06:08 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
As a matter of Fact I don't hate him and have done business with him and made great money . Hank is vastly over hyped in NY and I don't let that blind me.
Not at all, as a matter of fact my earlier post shows all the flaws in your argument. Hank is by far not over hyped.

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01-07-2010, 07:00 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Yes. And he is a Ranger, thats why his +/- is that low. Its shouldnt be cause he's played pretty steady most of the time. If this team had even strength scoring he'd be just below even if that. But these are just numbers, they don't paint the full picture.

Solid defense along with unreal breakout passes at age 19, yeah he'd get a top 3 vote from me.
You can't ignore the fact that MDZ has the worst +/- amongst d-men on this team by a -6 count. Other than he and Girardi none of the others have a negative +/-. So blaming it on soley the Rangers being a team that don't score goals isn't a fair argument.

The Rangers are also only 12th in the league in goals against per game as well.

+/- is not the only basis for my argument, because it is a very vague stat, but in this case I think you can't just dismiss it.

He makes some great outlet passes, he's going to be a great defenseman, sure, but he's not playing like a top 3 rookie this season. Maybe he is one by default since Duchene, O'Reilly, Kane and van Riemsdyk have also cooled off, and a guy like Bergfors didn't show up on many people's radar until recently, but when I take a step back as optimistic as I am about the future with Del Zotto and as impressive he's been, he's been pretty awful in his own end at times, and once again, if he could be sent down to a minor league team and then brought back up at a later date this season, it would've happened at least once by now, similar to what happened to Jason Demers IMO

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01-07-2010, 07:01 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
I can live with Myers for ROTY, but Rask gets consideration over MDZ?
There have been a lot of rookies a head of MDZ at this point of the season in my opinion. Myers, Tavares, Duchene, Bergforgs, Rask, Varlamov and Howard have all been better than him in my opinion. Hedman has also been a much more complete player. He's a top-10 rookie this season but I would put him up there with the others, especially with how good this rookie class has been. JVR can also make a case for having a better season.

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01-07-2010, 07:02 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
He wouldn't have been sent down. He plays the point better than any player on the team. Gilroy can't play the point, and his break out passes are nowhere near as good as MDZ's. Not to mention that Del Zotto is stronger and is much more physical.

What would be the point in sending him down? Who can bring what he brings and play better defense? Tortorella already tried Sanguinetti and that didn't exactly work out.
Heikkenen was much better in his own end than Del Zotto.

You keep a youngster honest and you show them they need to tighten up an aspect of their game when you send them down the way Gilroy was, and MDZ would've seen a similar demotion if he was eligible, just my opinion, I'm sure I'll have to agree to disagree with most that don't see it that way.

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01-07-2010, 07:04 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fataldogg View Post
There have been a lot of rookies a head of MDZ at this point of the season in my opinion. Myers, Tavares, Duchene, Bergforgs, Rask, Varlamov and Howard have all been better than him in my opinion. Hedman has also been a much more complete player. He's a top-10 rookie this season but I would put him up there with the others, especially with how good this rookie class has been. JVR can also make a case for having a better season.
I forgot Howard was a rookie, I guess it's all the hype that's been surrounding him.

Maybe Al Montoya will bloom around 25 as well. A year ago it was looking pretty bleak for Howard.

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01-07-2010, 07:10 PM
  #71
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I forgot Howard was a rookie, I guess it's all the hype that's been surrounding him.

Maybe Al Montoya will bloom around 25 as well. A year ago it was looking pretty bleak for Howard.
Yeah, he is the dark horse for me in my opinion. He gets overlooked a lot w/ Rask / Varlamov.

Bottom line is he has played 26 games, is 14 - 9 - 2, 2.23GAA and a .923S%. If he plays 50+ games, which he likely will, he is a much better candidate than Rask playing 30 games or Varlamov playing 35 - 40 games.

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01-07-2010, 08:18 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
As a matter of Fact I don't hate him and have done business with him and made great money . Hank is vastly over hyped in NY and I don't let that blind me.
I have Hank as the 4th or 5th best goalie so far this year. Since you say he's overhyped, why not tell us who has been better this season?

Or one of his other detractors could handle the question.

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01-08-2010, 06:49 AM
  #73
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Gaborik - A+ One man gang, best player besides Hank
Prospal - A A great signing , well deserved “A”, very smart player.
Cally - B Brings it every night in all situations, fearless shot blocking
Kotalik - C- Helps the PP when hes playing and on
MDZ - B- Has a lot to learn on defense, playing more physical lately
Dubinksy - B- Was inconsistent and then injured - Has been much better lately. Must continue to grow in 2nd half.
Anisimov - B - Play is underrated. On pace for 15 and doesnt get a ton of time, take next step in 2nd half.
Drury - C best defensive forward, wins fo's, still need more offense, most impressive is his fearless shot blocking
Staal - B+ sticking to D and playing much better now
Avery - C+ Work ethic has been good, but not scoring. Has to be Avery again, while staying out of box.
Girardi - B Underrated solid, physical d-man
Rozsival - C- Not as bad as some think,
Higgins - C- Can’t dispute his work ethic and perseverance - but he simply isnt scoring
Lisin - C- Has skill, but hasnt put it all together. Has been working hard lately.
Gilroy - C+ Torts should unleash him more offensively, His defense has improved
Redden - C Steady, solid but not spectacular, he and Gilroy play well together
Boyle - C+ - Has worked hard and has been a valuable PK man. But he has to use his size more.
Christensen - C Has played well on the 1st line
Brashear - F - Seems uniterested other than cashing his paycheck. Shows no leadership or ability to play.
Voros - C Brings tireless effort every time he's in the line-up, should play more
Hank - A- Still the best player on this team, w/o him we'd be dead
Johnson - Inc. - Certainly impressed in last night's start, should play more and give Hank a breather
Torts - D Changes lines too much, loves his players, stubborn, poor shootout choices, changes system every other game, a lot of room for improvement

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01-08-2010, 09:26 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Ok, we are one game past the halfway mark, and Carps blog reminded me we should all do ourselves a favor and stress out even more about the current state of the team by grading each player.

Here are the current stats, projections and my grades:


Gaborik - A - He’s pretty much carried this team the entire year.
Prospal - A - A great signing after being boughtout last year, well deserved “A”.
Cally - B - Scoring dip, but still on pace for around 20. Brings it every night in all situations
Kotalik - D - Helps the PP when hes playing- and on, but has been dreadful even strength.
MDZ - A - Has a lot to learn on defense, but those are great numbers for a rookie D man. Love the fact that he isnt afraid to mix it up.
Dubinksy - EDIT: B- - Was inconsistent and then injured - Has been much better lately. Must continue to grow in 2nd half.
Anisimov - B - Play is underrated. On pace for 15 and doesnt get a ton of time, take next step in 2nd half.
Drury - D - D- if not for his PK, work ethic and play of late. But not worth a 4 mil contract right now.
Staal - B - Early responsibilites screwed with head, but has been strong. Needs to take a notch higher and he will.
Avery - C- - Work ethic has been good, but not scoring. Has to be Avery again, while staying out of box.
Girardi - C- - On a whole, I think hes regressed. Need more offensively, positionally and emotionally.
Rozsival - C - Not as bad as some think, but he has a lot more to offer, and more consistently.
Higgins - D - Can’t dispute his work ethic and perseverance - but he simply isnt scoring. Dissapointment
Lisin - C- - Has skill, but hasnt put it all together. Has been working hard lately. Is there a next level?
Gilroy - C - Expecting more offensively, but he is a rookie. His defense has been OK. 2nd half is big for him.
Redden - D - Some think he has played better, but its not by much. Hes a shadow of his former self and isnt involved enough.
Boyle - C+ - Has worked hard and has been a valuable PK man. But he has to use his size more.
Christ - Inc. - Struggles with confidence issues. Maybe he’ll hit a stride here on the top line.
P.A. - Inc. - Has played alright when hes gotten the chance, but this isnt the team for him to grow on.
Byers - Inc. - Could be playing in Donald Brashear’s spot IMO
Brashear - F - Seems uniterested other than cashing his paycheck. Shows no leadership or ability to play.
Voros - Inc. - Would rather have him on the 4th line and thats saying a lot about Brashear.
Sangs - Inc. - Needs to continue to build at the AHL level. Got his feet wet and thats good.

Hank - A- - Has become a leader of this team and despite some shaky play early on, the Rangers arent where they are without him.
Vally - D - Was pretty bad but i was surprised he wasnt given more of a chance, especially with the workload Henrik has.
Johnson - Inc. - I like him in camp, thought he was composed and in control. Getting his feet wet is good as long as he keeps the right mindset.


What do you think?
Pretty nice wrap-up and grades, would agree with most of them except few minor tweaks. Would only change pluses/minuses for few players...
Kotalik to C- or C - he is on pace for 40-45 points, which is exactly his career average and standard. He is not doing much except PP, but still third in team scoring. As i know Kotalik, he might have hard times with Torts and NYR pressure, cause he is not that "strong mentally". Hopefully it will come around.
Brashear would get Z from me...what a waste of 1,4M$ of cap space...guy is not performing mercenary with no interest what so ever. Spirit of pre lockout teams.

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01-09-2010, 10:52 AM
  #75
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Pretty nice wrap-up and grades, would agree with most of them except few minor tweaks. Would only change pluses/minuses for few players...
Kotalik to C- or C - he is on pace for 40-45 points, which is exactly his career average and standard. He is not doing much except PP, but still third in team scoring. As i know Kotalik, he might have hard times with Torts and NYR pressure, cause he is not that "strong mentally". Hopefully it will come around.
Brashear would get Z from me...what a waste of 1,4M$ of cap space...guy is not performing mercenary with no interest what so ever. Spirit of pre lockout teams.
Agree, but I liked whoever it was that posted an F- for brash. that about sums it up.

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