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01-10-2010, 01:17 PM
  #101
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Let's not upset the apple cart. We are just starting to build some confidence.

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01-10-2010, 01:28 PM
  #102
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I'm thinking if Kovalchuk goes anywhere, he's going to a large market that needs a "superstar" presence. I honestly don't think the Flyers pull the trigger on the Kovalchuk deal. As for the rest of the large markets, both New York franchises are out, Boston is out, Pittsburgh is out, Washington is out, Tampa Bay and Florida are out, Dallas is out, Phoenix is out, Anaheim is out, San Jose is out, Vancouver is out, Calgary and Edmonton are out, Chicago is out, Ottawa and Toronto are out, Montreal is out........There's only a couple of places where Kovalchuk would fit. The best fit would be Los Angeles, a marquee market that hasn't had a superstar presence since Gretzky (and as great as Kopitar is, he just doesn't have that celebrity status that Kovalchuk would bring). St. Louis would be the second best fit. Other than that, Waddell's hands are completely tied. Isn't it quite true how bad ownership can cripple a franchise?

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01-10-2010, 01:31 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I'm thinking if Kovalchuk goes anywhere, he's going to a large market that needs a "superstar" presence. I honestly don't think the Flyers pull the trigger on the Kovalchuk deal. As for the rest of the large markets, both New York franchises are out, Boston is out, Pittsburgh is out, Washington is out, Tampa Bay and Florida are out, Dallas is out, Phoenix is out, Anaheim is out, San Jose is out, Vancouver is out, Calgary and Edmonton are out, Chicago is out, Ottawa and Toronto are out, Montreal is out........There's only a couple of places where Kovalchuk would fit. The best fit would be Los Angeles, a marquee market that hasn't had a superstar presence since Gretzky (and as great as Kopitar is, he just doesn't have that celebrity status that Kovalchuk would bring). St. Louis would be the second best fit. Other than that, Waddell's hands are completely tied. Isn't it quite true how bad ownership can cripple a franchise?
If he'd go to St. Louis he might as well stay in ATL.

It would be great to see him a King. You are true about that statement. They haven't had a superstar since Gretzky. They would probably kill with Kovi in that line up.

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01-10-2010, 01:33 PM
  #104
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Kovi-Kopi-Brown would be a nasty line

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01-10-2010, 01:52 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I'm thinking if Kovalchuk goes anywhere, he's going to a large market that needs a "superstar" presence. I honestly don't think the Flyers pull the trigger on the Kovalchuk deal. As for the rest of the large markets, both New York franchises are out, Boston is out, Pittsburgh is out, Washington is out, Tampa Bay and Florida are out, Dallas is out, Phoenix is out, Anaheim is out, San Jose is out, Vancouver is out, Calgary and Edmonton are out, Chicago is out, Ottawa and Toronto are out, Montreal is out........There's only a couple of places where Kovalchuk would fit. The best fit would be Los Angeles, a marquee market that hasn't had a superstar presence since Gretzky (and as great as Kopitar is, he just doesn't have that celebrity status that Kovalchuk would bring). St. Louis would be the second best fit. Other than that, Waddell's hands are completely tied. Isn't it quite true how bad ownership can cripple a franchise?
Didn't the pens pull the trigger on a true superstar in Marian Hossa?

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01-10-2010, 02:19 PM
  #106
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According to Pierre LeBrun on ESPN, Homer told him they are NOT trading Carter. His last blog is here:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/...=lebrun_pierre

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01-10-2010, 02:19 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
According to Pierre LeBrun on ESPN, Homer told him they are NOT trading Carter. His last blog is here:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/...=lebrun_pierre
Holmgren announced this a month ago or so.

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01-10-2010, 02:27 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
According to Pierre LeBrun on ESPN, Homer told him they are NOT trading Carter. His last blog is here:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/...=lebrun_pierre
Pierre said the same thing last night on the CBC Hot Stove during Hockey Night In Canada. LeBrun is one of the few guys in sports to trust because he really does have an in with the league and the GMs.

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01-10-2010, 02:30 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by dbr2 View Post
If he'd go to St. Louis he might as well stay in ATL.
St.Louis doesn't have ownership issues like there are in Atlanta. As well, I'd say St.Louis is closer to being a contender than Atlanta is. St.Louis would also be able to give the prospects Atlanta would look for and it wouldn't deplete their farm system any.

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It would be great to see him a King. You are true about that statement. They haven't had a superstar since Gretzky. They would probably kill with Kovi in that line up.
Agreed. That would be something else to see. Someone mentioned the top line of Brown - Kopitar - Kovalchuk and that would be absolutely scary. Have to think though that if Kovalchuk is sent to the Kings, the Thrashers are going to get a boat load of top notch prospects and draft picks.

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01-10-2010, 02:31 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Didn't the pens pull the trigger on a true superstar in Marian Hossa?
After Hossa told the Thrashers he was going to sign and then renegged. Waddell was in a bad situation and he needed to do something and not get any sort of return on Hossa. Now that Atlanta is resigned to the fact that Kovalchuk is probably going to leave, Waddell can start the bidding wars amongst teams.

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01-10-2010, 02:35 PM
  #111
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I just don't see us having the depth of picks/prospects to make the Kovalchuk trade happen... or the cap room required. Can't see us clearing enough cap room in a trade and I want JVR and Giroux to stay Flyers. Ditto for Carter. I also like Gagne and I want him to be a career Flyer, like some others should have been (Propp, Kerr, Poulin). Who was the last guy with any kind of longevity that played his whole career as a Flyer? Barber? After this contract he should sign for less $ based on recent output/age/etc and stay with the Flyers. Great 2-way player.

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01-10-2010, 02:38 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
St.Louis doesn't have ownership issues like there are in Atlanta. As well, I'd say St.Louis is closer to being a contender than Atlanta is. St.Louis would also be able to give the prospects Atlanta would look for and it wouldn't deplete their farm system any.



Agreed. That would be something else to see. Someone mentioned the top line of Brown - Kopitar - Kovalchuk and that would be absolutely scary. Have to think though that if Kovalchuk is sent to the Kings, the Thrashers are going to get a boat load of top notch prospects and draft picks.
I agree, Kings have plenty of prospects and could swing something here. Lombardi, Hexy and co. have stockpiled some serious talent there and they have plenty in junior or on the farm. I think they are the most likely destination.

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01-10-2010, 02:39 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Beastieboy View Post
I just don't see us having the depth of picks/prospects to make the Kovalchuk trade happen... or the cap room required. Can't see us clearing enough cap room in a trade and I want JVR and Giroux to stay Flyers. Ditto for Carter. I also like Gagne and I want him to be a career Flyer, like some others should have been (Propp, Kerr, Poulin). Who was the last guy with any kind of longevity that played his whole career as a Flyer? Barber? After this contract he should sign for less $ based on recent output/age/etc and stay with the Flyers. Great 2-way player.
You really have to look at what Hossa's value got in return.

Colby Armstrong and Eric Christensen, Girardi and a first-round draft pick. That aint much. At all. Im not sure if you are put it seems like some people are saying Carter and JVR and a 1st for this guy. In no way is that fair value. It will be JVR and a first or Carter, not both. If more salary goes the other way, then we will get more back.

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01-10-2010, 02:51 PM
  #114
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You really have to look at what Hossa's value got in return.

Colby Armstrong and Eric Christensen, Girardi and a first-round draft pick. That aint much. At all. Im not sure if you are put it seems like some people are saying Carter and JVR and a 1st for this guy. In no way is that fair value. It will be JVR and a first or Carter, not both. If more salary goes the other way, then we will get more back.
Angelo Esposito was included in the Hossa deal... at one time he was supposed to be great. Not sure what he is doing now. My view is if ANY of Carter, JVR or Giroux is included I don't like it. All of those guys certainly are better than any of the crud the Pens parted with for Hossa. They sent a bunch of spare parts and a 1st round pick. Maybe better to wait and add someone like Ray Whitney on the cheap at the deadline, assuming we are buyers at that point. I sure hope we are not sellers!

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01-10-2010, 02:55 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Beastieboy View Post
Angelo Esposito was included in the Hossa deal... at one time he was supposed to be great. Not sure what he is doing now. My view is if ANY of Carter, JVR or Giroux is included I don't like it. All of those guys certainly are better than any of the crud the Pens parted with for Hossa. They sent a bunch of spare parts and a 1st round pick. Maybe better to wait and add someone like Ray Whitney on the cheap at the deadline, assuming we are buyers at that point. I sure hope we are not sellers!
Yea in general trades for players that are being traded with a purpose, as in their teams dont want or cant afford them dont really go for that much. The FA ones especially. Forwards anyway. Look at the Thornton trade etc etc. Im not sure we need to make any trades besides trying to get a young goalie as a back up to sign him later in case we cant keep Emery. Harding would be a good guy to target. And a team with a set solid starter isnt going to ask for much for a UFA.

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01-10-2010, 03:05 PM
  #116
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Yeah, don't see two vets with NMC waiving them to go to an Atlanta team without Kovalchuk and the team's best goalie.

Kovalchuk will cost, bare minimum, Carter and JvR or Giroux. Probably more.
still doesnt make room for the 9 million kovy is supposedly asking for. even at a sweetheart deal say 7.5 we have to move more than one roster player and that means creating holes which would in turn lessen our chance at making the playoffs or going deep into them. and we simply dont have the cap space or prospect pool to compete with offers that say a team like la could make more along the lines of your standard rental. from what im reading though atlanta is interested in making the playoffs and this offer might suit them better.

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01-10-2010, 04:27 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Joke. I was trying to even out the values.

Regardless, not only does Carter for Halak never happen in the real world, Kovalchuk is almost certainly not coming back unless we have some kind of hope for signing him. That hope of course doesn't exist unless some kind of package like Briere and Hartnell was headed back the other way, the kind of package that would be dumb to send since he isn't already signed.
Oh, haha I thought you were saying that someone actually suggested that package.

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01-10-2010, 05:16 PM
  #118
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I'm not sure it's prospects the Thrashers would be looking for. If they trade Kovalchuk, they're still going to want players who can help them get there this year. This is why I think if Chicago wants them, in terms of player-for-player value, they have a good shot, because they might be able to give up Sharp, Versteeg and Barker and not sweat it if it means they get Kovalchuk. I think for both teams, that might be the deal to make.

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01-10-2010, 05:36 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
still doesnt make room for the 9 million kovy is supposedly asking for. even at a sweetheart deal say 7.5 we have to move more than one roster player and that means creating holes which would in turn lessen our chance at making the playoffs or going deep into them. and we simply dont have the cap space or prospect pool to compete with offers that say a team like la could make more along the lines of your standard rental. from what im reading though atlanta is interested in making the playoffs and this offer might suit them better.
I'm strictly talking about assets that Atlanta will want, not salary we'd have to dump on them

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01-10-2010, 05:37 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I'm not sure it's prospects the Thrashers would be looking for. If they trade Kovalchuk, they're still going to want players who can help them get there this year. This is why I think if Chicago wants them, in terms of player-for-player value, they have a good shot, because they might be able to give up Sharp, Versteeg and Barker and not sweat it if it means they get Kovalchuk. I think for both teams, that might be the deal to make.
They'd want guys who can drive moving vans, because if they trade Kovalchuk, they're going to draw less people than the Sixers.

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01-10-2010, 06:18 PM
  #121
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I would make everyone available with 4 exceptions; Richards, Carter, JVR and Giroux.

If Flyers can trade and then can sign Kovy. They must do it. I do not think they can tough.

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01-10-2010, 06:54 PM
  #122
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I would make everyone available with 4 exceptions; Richards, Carter, JVR and Giroux.

If Flyers can trade and then can sign Kovy. They must do it. I do not think they can tough.
I bet Atlanta would want at least 2 out of those 3 to even listen to you. Kovalchuk reportedly wants the max contract, which is an $11mm a year cap hit.

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01-10-2010, 07:09 PM
  #123
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I bet Atlanta would want at least 2 out of those 3 to even listen to you. Kovalchuk reportedly wants the max contract, which is an $11mm a year cap hit.
I don't think Atlanta would ask for that much actually...He will be a FA afterall. And I don't think Kovy is really asking for 11 M a year...Ovie doesn't even make that.

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01-10-2010, 07:15 PM
  #124
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I don't think Atlanta would ask for that much actually...He will be a FA afterall. And I don't think Kovy is really asking for 11 M a year...Ovie doesn't even make that.
Kovalchuk is the only reason people go to games in Atlanta. Do you think that they're going to trade him for a bag of nothing? He's going to be expensive-they're not going to screw it up like Florida did with Bouwmeester.

As for the contract demands, Why does he care what Ovechkin gets? He wants to get paid, and almost certainly will. He's making $7.5mm now, so even $10mm isn't a huge raise.

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01-10-2010, 07:44 PM
  #125
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Holmgren announced this a month ago or so.
And I don't see why people keep insisting on throwing his name out there. He's basically the only forward we have that's capable of keeping up with the elite teams. Trading him and leaving us with Giroux and Richards as our centres is recipe for a lottery pick. Carter is a horse and Laviolette has been using him as one, giving him lots of ice time and letting him go up against the other teams' best lines.

Good for Homer to have the sense not to trade the one player we really need.

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