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01/10/10 what do you think of the mini-camp?

View Poll Results: what do you think of the mini-camp?
it's for publicity 10 18.52%
they honestly need the work and practice time 19 35.19%
its a combination of need the work and publicity 14 25.93%
they need the team building 4 7.41%
i really don't know 4 7.41%
Other, please explain 3 5.56%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-10-2010, 10:40 AM
  #1
BlueBelle
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01/10/10 what do you think of the mini-camp?

Oilers have big decision ahead
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...895/story.html

Visnovski back on ice after injury
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...906/story.html

Jung rediscovers last season's form
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...902/story.html

Oil Kings Game Review
http://www.edmontonsun.com/sports/ho...09791-sun.html

Getting back to basics
http://www.edmontonsun.com/sports/my...09801-sun.html

Easy Comrie, easy go
http://www.edmontonsun.com/sports/my...09806-sun.html


Last edited by BlueBelle: 01-10-2010 at 10:49 AM.
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Old
01-10-2010, 10:46 AM
  #2
BlueBelle
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Tom Gilbert takes some knocks, but only because he's playing a quieter game.
http://communities.canada.com/edmont...eter-game.aspx

Hisey
http://lowetide.blogspot.com/2010/01/hisey.html

Hall Vs. Seguin Part 1, The Case For Taylor Hall
http://bryanbryoil.blogspot.com/2010...or-taylor.html

On Tanking - This Time it's Experiential
http://www.coppernblue.com/2010/1/10...-this-time-its

The Copper & Blue's 2009 Stat Leaders
http://www.coppernblue.com/2010/1/10...9-stat-leaders

How bad are the current Oilers? (continued)
http://www.coppernblue.com/2010/1/9/...current-oilers

Penalty Kill Save Percentage Update
http://www.coppernblue.com/2010/1/9/...centage-update

“…And by Calgary standards, she’s stunningly gorgeous.”
http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=3293

A New GM for the Edmonton Oilers
http://lowonoil.com/

Shameless Plugs - The Oilogosphere
http://oilersjambalaya.blogspot.com/...ogosphere.html

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Old
01-10-2010, 10:48 AM
  #3
BlueBelle
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kukla
http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/hockey/

rumours
http://www.spectorshockey.net/index....&id=5&Itemid=4

puck daddy has a couple
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy

Salary Cap Vs. Luxury Tax
http://my.thescore.com/hockeyordie/a...uxury-tax.aspx

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Old
01-10-2010, 11:11 AM
  #4
jumptheshark
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second best way a girl wakes ,me up BB is with these links

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The twenty year rebuild is on!!! Embrace the suck
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Old
01-10-2010, 11:18 AM
  #5
0ilerman
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riiight...anyways
This mini camp is just a punnishment and probably a deserved one

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Old
01-10-2010, 12:02 PM
  #6
Real_Estate-Agent
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This one hits the nail on the head.....

Lost leadership leads to losses
http://www.edmontonsun.com/sports/co...09891-sun.html

"Look wherever you want on the roster and it's hard to find any player who has ever earned a championship medal in the adult hockey universe."

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Old
01-10-2010, 12:11 PM
  #7
czar99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real_Estate-Agent View Post
This one hits the nail on the head.....

Lost leadership leads to losses
http://www.edmontonsun.com/sports/co...09891-sun.html

"Look wherever you want on the roster and it's hard to find any player who has ever earned a championship medal in the adult hockey universe."
Good little read and soooo true!

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Old
01-10-2010, 12:45 PM
  #8
Jet
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mini camp is just a bunk attempt at Oilers management to sell tickets for a team that plays like crap.

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Old
01-10-2010, 12:52 PM
  #9
Jimmi Jenkins
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Anyone else get tired of that tubby liar Garioch?

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Old
01-10-2010, 12:59 PM
  #10
n00b1AnPr1nc355
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Originally Posted by jet228 View Post
mini camp is just a bunk attempt at Oilers management to sell tickets for a team that plays like crap.
i still dont understand what a mini-camp is.

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Old
01-10-2010, 01:08 PM
  #11
Other Little Mikey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real_Estate-Agent View Post
This one hits the nail on the head.....

Lost leadership leads to losses
http://www.edmontonsun.com/sports/co...09891-sun.html

"Look wherever you want on the roster and it's hard to find any player who has ever earned a championship medal in the adult hockey universe."
Okay, I'll look, because I think this is an interesting question. This is mostly from memory so feel free to correct me where I'm wrong.

Staios has, I believe, won two gold medals and one silver at the World Championships. I think Horcoff was on both gold medal teams. I remember them playing well at times but I don't think there was ever a leadership component. I'm pretty sure Staios has had an A, but we all know what "leadership" means to Steve - blocking shots with your face if it's necessary to win. Apparently that's not rubbing off on anyone around here. So does a good leader need to be skilled too?

Penner's won a Stanley Cup, but he was a rookie at the time so, again, we can assume he didn't ever play a leadership role. Still, at least he's experienced it.

So has Khabibulin, and he was an important part of that Tampa team's win. But, he's injured. I guess we can ask the Canucks how well a goalie works as a team leader.

Grebeshkov has two WC gold medals, but I'm guessing he was too young to play a leadership role for them, and that's likely true here as well. This is, for the most part, only his third full NHL season, putting him in the same category as Gagner, Cogliano and Gilbert. Not enough experience. An important stat: zero NHL playoff games.

Which brings us to Lubo. By all accounts an excellent player with little NHL team success. He's played 12 NHL playoff games, but eight of those were as a rookie. He's won medals at the World Championship but again, all relatively near the start of his NHL career (although he was 25 or older, so it's not like he was young). There is, however, the lockout year, where he played for his old team in Bratislava and they won the league championship. Right, not the same as NHL playoffs, but I think this still has merit. So what other characteristics does a good leader need? Do you think the players consider Lubo a leader on the team? Is it significant that he doesn't normally wear a letter?

Hemsky is a bit similar. He won a gold at the World Championship (more important than I would usually deem the WCs, as it was the lockout year) and a bronze at the Olympics, but based on the players on those Czech teams, no, I don't think you can count Ales as a leader. But he also won a league championship during the lockout, and was named playoff MVP after he was the leading scorer. So if we assume Hemsky has the skill part down, then what areas is he lacking in to be a good leader?

Because I think it's fair to say the Oilers might not have a "complete" leader, one with at least good skill, experience winning, and most of all, the right personality. They have players with some characteristics but not the others, but I think a truly outstanding leader is probably almost as hard to find as a star scoring winger ... do the Oilers need an Yzerman or a Messier, or do they just need someone competent?

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Old
01-10-2010, 01:44 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by BlueBelle View Post
On Tanking - This Time it's Experiential
http://www.coppernblue.com/2010/1/10...-this-time-its
I can't get on board with any suggestion like this one. The current situation isn't perfect, I can't see as this one would be better. If a team is really really bad, no matter how hard they try they'll be close to last place. At least now they can tank as hard as the others are tanking and keep pace. Let's face it: teams that sell at the deadline are doing just that.

The only system I can think of is what I call the Finger Post Scramble. You base pick order on the rank of the out-of-playoffs teams based on goal differential of 2nd half minus 1st half. Half a season is a pretty good indicator how good the team is. So, for example, if team A's goal differential is -10 in the 1st half and -20 in the 2nd half, that's a good indication they're tanking to get a higher draft pick. If team B's differential is also -10 in the 1st half but go 0 for the second half, its a good indication they're trying hard and making the race interesting. The first team's score would be -20-(-10) = -10, whereas the 2nd team's score would be 0-(-10)=10. If you set picks 1-15 based on rank from top to bottom, team B would pick well before team A. The best picks go to teams that go on a bit of a run in the second half.

This would create some VERY interesting dynamics. Teams that suck might not choose to part with some of their vets at the deadline unless the returns are better. The ones that do might find the deals better because of the reduced supply. In fact, poor teams at the halfway point would be incentivized to shore up their weaknesses rather then exacerbate them. Imagine a poor team being a buyer at the deadline in order to go from picking 3rd to picking 1st! Imagine the last few games of the year where the crummier teams are desperately trying to gain points in order to move up in the draft!

Also, trading for draft picks becomes a very interesting proposition as a team trading away its first rounder does not feel compelled to compete down the stretch and can get rid of vets at the deadline for the better returns. Thus teams that gamble in the offseason by trading future for now and who are on the cusp at midseason can safely play their youngsters and load up for a quicker turnaround.

The teams this hurts most are the ones that are injured or just suck in the 2nd half. The Ottawa senators a few years back, for example. I think the current system is probably the best we'll get, but at least the above patented Finger Post Scramble For Picks would make things interesting for all teams throughout the year.

Edit: it should be noted that the way to game the Finger Post Scramble is not to tank for the second half, but play kids and tank in the first half and hope like hell you can pull it together in the second half to either squeak into the postseason or make the best goal differential swing. While this would still suck for regular seasons ticket holders in the first half, at least nobody is likely to get a full season of suck.


Last edited by Finger Post: 01-10-2010 at 01:51 PM.
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Old
01-10-2010, 03:00 PM
  #13
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Quote:
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Anyone else get tired of that tubby liar Garioch?
x2 I never believe what Garrioch says anymore. It's just more lies.

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Old
01-10-2010, 09:32 PM
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nafrelio
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Re: the mini-camp - all I know is that I'm a wife and kids of a player who is gone on the road as much as they are, and if I was being told that there would be a fun vacation in California for the whole family (or wherever), I would be royally choked, angry and disappointed. Imagine being a player and having to tell your family that a family holiday was being cancelled because "I have to go practice working"...again. I don't see this as motivation, but as kick them while they are down and more fodder for family conflict and hard feeling towards the employer.

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01-10-2010, 10:10 PM
  #15
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Personally, as someone who would like to see the Oilers get a top 3 pick, I'm not too happy about the trip being cancelled. But selfish thoughts aside, I think the mini-camp is a very good idea for the team.

As Quinn himself said, the new coaching staff never really had a chance to instill their basics into the players at the beginning of the season. And I guess now is that opportunity. It's definitely too late to make the playoffs now, but I think the mini-camp could help them turn their season around and get everyone on the same page. I have a feeling that they'll start winning some games. Again, as a proponent of tanking for Taylor, I'm not too excited about the positive effect the camp could have But in a way, I am though, because I feel a bit of remorse for the team, as things have been going wrong here for a while now.

Really, the camp may help a bit, but the team won't really be any good until Tambellini pulls his head out of his ass and cleans the mess on this team.

The flip side to the positive effect the camp could have on the team is what nafrelio mentioned. The players families may be excited to spend time with their dads/husbands, and now that's shot. But hey, it happens. I remember having vacations cancelled as a kid before. It's disappointing as hell, but the players have a long break in the summer to make up for it.

I'm not sure where the heck the publicity angle comes from though in the poll... but lots of people picked that.

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Old
01-10-2010, 10:26 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by nafrelio View Post
Imagine being a player and having to tell your family that a family holiday was being cancelled because "I have to go practice working"...again. I don't see this as motivation, but as kick them while they are down and more fodder for family conflict and hard feeling towards the employer.
Waaaah. Think about it like any other workplace: your company plans a special event. However, in the weeks leading up to it, you and your co-workers screw around and nothing gets done. Are you really going to be surprised when said event gets canceled in favor of more work?

The Oilers deserved exactly what they got.

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01-10-2010, 10:37 PM
  #17
nafrelio
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Waaaah. Think about it like any other workplace: your company plans a special event. However, in the weeks leading up to it, you and your co-workers screw around and nothing gets done. Are you really going to be surprised when said event gets canceled in favor of more work?

The Oilers deserved exactly what they got.
From a spouse/kid's perspective, there's always more work. And now work is impeding on planned family time? Not cool, IMO. That is punishing the families, not the players.

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Old
01-10-2010, 11:04 PM
  #18
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Kevin this is Pat.

Hi Pat.

Kevin the team sucks.

Pat we should do something.

KK, lets not go golfing.

KK, I'm good with that.

So what will that accomplish?

Nothing.

Oh okay. I'm good with that.

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01-10-2010, 11:18 PM
  #19
T-Funk
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From a spouse/kid's perspective, there's always more work. And now work is impeding on planned family time? Not cool, IMO. That is punishing the families, not the players.
if the players really cared about their families they would be upset about disappointing them playing like little girls and pissing away a possibly successful career that could support their children and their grandchildren for a lifetime

sure their families may blame the organization, but if the players don't blame themselves for being unable to find motivation playing a game for millions...their grade 12 education didnt go too far

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Old
01-11-2010, 12:56 AM
  #20
Other Little Mikey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nafrelio View Post
Re: the mini-camp - all I know is that I'm a wife and kids of a player who is gone on the road as much as they are, and if I was being told that there would be a fun vacation in California for the whole family (or wherever), I would be royally choked, angry and disappointed. Imagine being a player and having to tell your family that a family holiday was being cancelled because "I have to go practice working"...again. I don't see this as motivation, but as kick them while they are down and more fodder for family conflict and hard feeling towards the employer.
Was it a family vacation? They were supposed to golf with team sponsors. Besides, most of them are getting the Olympic break off.

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01-11-2010, 01:58 AM
  #21
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they better not go on some stupid win streak because of the mini-camp.. the Oil suck right now and have zero chance of making the playoffs..... winning another 5 in a row will not get us anywhere close to playoff contention but will move us out of the top 3 picks

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Old
01-11-2010, 09:38 AM
  #22
BlueBelle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Kevin this is Pat.

Hi Pat.

Kevin the team sucks.

Pat we should do something.

KK, lets not go golfing.

KK, I'm good with that.

So what will that accomplish?

Nothing.

Oh okay. I'm good with that.
exactly, but I thought I would poll the mases.

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