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Old
01-11-2010, 11:23 AM
  #51
NikC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #97 View Post
6 years, 5 after this one, @ 1,167M$ per.
sorry, for being and idiot. Does that mean after this year the NYR
will be responsible for paying 4m+ or are we only on the hook
for the $1.167m?

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01-11-2010, 11:25 AM
  #52
Jackson Ranger
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Originally Posted by Kovalev27 View Post
bottom line NO ONE SELLS when they are a point out of 5th place in the conference. And my guess is we'll be in 5th by the end of the week with the way boston and ottawa are playing. we may even catch pittsburgh by month end. Not saying we will but the possibility of home ice even in the conversation makes your argument that much more ridiculous. NO GM NO ORGANIZATION IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD SELL IN THE POSITION WE ARE IN. I don't want to come off as rude but this just isn't done. you want to talk when/if the team is hanging around the 9th 10th spot right before the olympic break fine, we can talk about being sellers but if the team is fighting for 4th or 5th in the conference there is no discussion no debate.
Not saying this is apples to apples but the Canadiens, who finished 1st in the Eastern Conference in 2008, traded Huet to Washington for a 2nd round pick at the trade deadline that year.

With that said, I would agree with you and wait to see where the Rangers are at around the Olympic break before selling. But as any GM should do, Sather should be looking at both sides of the equation in order to make the Rangers better now and in the future.

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01-11-2010, 11:29 AM
  #53
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I wouldn't support selling unless the price someone pays is taking redden off our hands for the next 4 years.

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01-11-2010, 11:30 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by f2d View Post
I wouldn't support selling unless the price someone pays is taking redden off our hands for the next 4 years.
Thats logical.

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Old
01-11-2010, 11:30 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Thats logical.
It's just a pipe dream...

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01-11-2010, 11:31 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Jackson Ranger View Post
Not saying this is apples to apples but the Canadiens, who finished 1st in the Eastern Conference in 2008, traded Huet to Washington for a 2nd round pick at the trade deadline that year.
They did that to make Price their starter, not to sell. It was an assanine move that ended up costing them.

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01-11-2010, 11:32 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
sorry, for being and idiot. Does that mean after this year the NYR
will be responsible for paying 4m+ or are we only on the hook
for the $1.167m?
We are responsible for 1,150M$, that's the amount of the actual one year contract he signed with us last summer. The 1,167M$ per season (total 5,835 over the next 5 years after this one) is the extra money he's getting from Tampa, we're not paying anything and that doesn't count towards our cap.

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01-11-2010, 11:34 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #97 View Post
We are responsible for 1,150M$, that's the amount of the actual one year contract he signed with us last summer. The 1,167M$ (total 5,835) is the extra money he's getting from Tampa, we're not paying anything and that doesn't count towards our cap.
http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Te...ary_cap_thou=8

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Old
01-11-2010, 11:35 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by f2d View Post
It's just a pipe dream...
Maybe not if you're willing to part with some top prospects and a first round pick in the deal. Is that worth it for unloading Redden (and probably taking back a crappy contract)? I dont know, maybe.

I do know that selling high on Vinny Prospal isnt a pipedream and would be a logical move for this organization going forward.

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01-11-2010, 11:36 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
You keep saying that noone sells if theyre in a playoff spot, but I honestly dont care about that.

Id rather see what kind of picks Higgins, Girardi, and especially Prospal can return than another early playoff exit and ugly contract situations with all of these guys. Especially when you consider the very good picks the scouting department has been making in the first 3 rounds lately.

Id like to see this organization get creative for once and stop being so damn short-sighted.

Hanging onto the 3 players above and fooling yourself into believing this team, as currently constucted, is an actual contender is exactly that. Short-sighted....and hurtful in the long run.

ahh but my friend that is the ENTIRE point. that's great that you don't care and all but the people making the hockey and business decisions in the nhl sure do. no one would do this. no one has done it so why talk about it? because a guy on a message board dedicated to prospects wants picks instead of playoffs? thats just unrealistic. like i said if we were in 9th or 10th this would be a discussion. right now its not even worth debating.

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01-11-2010, 11:36 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #97 View Post
We are responsible for 1,150M$, that's the amount of the actual one year contract he signed with us last summer. The 1,167M$ per season (total 5,835 over the next 5 years after this one) is the extra money he's getting from Tampa, we're not paying anything and that doesn't count towards our cap.
thanks! Even as a 2nd line center, at that price I don't know how we could do any better right now!

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01-11-2010, 11:38 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Kovalev27 View Post
ahh but my friend that is the ENTIRE point. that's great that you don't care and all but the people making the hockey and business decisions in the nhl sure do. no one would do this. no one has done it so why talk about it? because a guy on a message board dedicated to prospects wants picks instead of playoffs? thats just unrealistic. like i said if we were in 9th or 10th this would be a discussion. right now its not even worth debating.
Noone has sold off assets while in a playoff spot? Noone???

I think you should do some research.

Its not only possible, its logical.

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01-11-2010, 11:39 AM
  #63
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Yeah, right.... next thing Brooks suggests would be to move Sather himself. We are not building contender here. Never have, never will. Forget. About. It.

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01-11-2010, 11:39 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
thanks! Even as a 2nd line center, at that price I don't know how we could do any better right now!
I know how.

We can hope he comes back from knee surgery performing at a point per game pace so we can sell him to a contender for a high draft pick.

Instead of hanging onto him for a few playoff games and then dealing with the eventual contract squabble, and letting him go for nothing/or overpaying him as a 35 year old.

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01-11-2010, 11:40 AM
  #65
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Two things...

If you'd like, look at where Pittsburgh was at this time last season. They went on to win the cup. Where they (or any TALENTED team) stands at this point is irrelevant... the cream will rise in most cases.

As far as selling... I honestly believe that IF Sather CAN'T rid us of one or more albatross contracts then sellers we should be.

No matter what parts we buy at the deadline... we won't go anywhere paying Rozi/Redds/Drury what we're paying them and getting what we get out of them. Mathematically impossible.

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01-11-2010, 11:48 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
There's no way I agree with this if we're in a playoff spot if for nothing else than guys like Gilroy, Anisimov, Del Zotto, etc... need to play in the playoffs and gain experience. I can't subscribe to being a seller if the team is in the playoff hunt. If we're completely out of it, fine. Otherwise, no dice.
Spot on

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Old
01-11-2010, 11:49 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
They did that to make Price their starter, not to sell. It was an assanine move that ended up costing them.
They also had Halak who played well that year and was NHL ready.

To me it's all about assets. Does the loss of the player (Girardi/Higgins/Prospal) outweigh the addition of, most likely the AHL callup plus the draft pick/prospect from the trade?

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01-11-2010, 11:50 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
thanks! Even as a 2nd line center, at that price I don't know how we could do any better right now!
You're welcome.

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Old
01-11-2010, 11:52 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
You keep saying that noone sells if theyre in a playoff spot, but I honestly dont care about that.

Id rather see what kind of picks Higgins, Girardi, and especially Prospal can return than another early playoff exit and ugly contract situations with all of these guys. Especially when you consider the very good picks the scouting department has been making in the first 3 rounds lately.

Id like to see this organization get creative for once and stop being so damn short-sighted.

Hanging onto the 3 players above and fooling yourself into believing this team, as currently constucted, is an actual contender is exactly that. Short-sighted....and hurtful in the long run.
wow. i am agreeing with brb. he is correct. as is uncle larry.

weve beaten cupcakes on this little run weve had. we are a team that is too easy to shut down and thus, we need to be realists and build for the future.

higgins
girardi
prospal- whom i would like to resign at a reasonable contract
rozy

all there guys can bring back picks. all the picks can be used to stockpile for further moves via trade or moving up in the draft a few spots or we can use them.

this is a no brainer folks. this team isnt going anywhere even if they make the playoffs.

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Old
01-11-2010, 11:54 AM
  #70
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Funny to see ODC and BRB agreeing in this one.

I agree too. Especially because I think the Rangers could sell the players in question and not necessarily miss the playoffs. If you can move Rozsie and/or Kotalik as well that's gravy.

IMO none of the players mentioned have been instrumental in the Rangers recent improved play - although Girardi has been mostly solid, I have to admit. Keys up front have been Dubinsky, Christiansen, Drury's resurgance and of course Gaborik. Anisimov really seems to be coming on as well. (Avery has been hit and miss - either contributing a lot or not at all.) Meanwhile, Lisin seems to be showing that he's capable of handling more ice time - I certainly think he could step in for Higgins and we wouldn't lose anything (in fact, we might gain some offense). On the backline, Staal and MDZ have been the most important players. And of course Hank's the real difference maker anyway.

I honestly believe that you could lose Prospal and Higgins and not miss a beat. Kotalik would be a no-brainer if you could find a taker. Girardi would be missed somewhat, depending on just how ready Sangs/Sauer/Beer are - and you probably couldn't move BOTH Girardi and Rozsie at the same point in time without seeing some negative effects. Still, if you could move at least 2 of the forwards and 1 of the Dmen, I think you do it. And you still continue on towards the POs.

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01-11-2010, 11:54 AM
  #71
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A couple points to make here:

-If we dump Girardi that is going to force us to play ANOTHER rookie D-Man next year. As logical as it may seem to move Girardi, for a team with Hank and Gabby in their prime is this risk worth it??

-While it's true Prospal is getting older... remember how Straka was in the later years of his career. Why can't Prospal do the same thing? Maybe Gaborik is to Prospal what Jagr was to Straka

-While moving Higgins is smart, we are still a team in cap hell. Higgins is showing signs of life and will still be cheaper than anybody else we can get this off season.

-Guys the answer to clearing cap space is simple, send Redden or Rosy to the minors. (did I just contradict myself about the rookie D-man thing?)

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01-11-2010, 12:03 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennglin13 View Post
A couple points to make here:

-If we dump Girardi that is going to force us to play ANOTHER rookie D-Man next year. As logical as it may seem to move Girardi, for a team with Hank and Gabby in their prime is this risk worth it??

-While it's true Prospal is getting older... remember how Straka was in the later years of his career. Why can't Prospal do the same thing? Maybe Gaborik is to Prospal what Jagr was to Straka

-While moving Higgins is smart, we are still a team in cap hell. Higgins is showing signs of life and will still be cheaper than anybody else we can get this off season.

-Guys the answer to clearing cap space is simple, send Redden or Rosy to the minors. (did I just contradict myself about the rookie D-man thing?)

Umm yeah...lol

Sather is going to have to suck it up. Send Redden packing and Rozsival if you want Girardi and Staal back.
And what could help lessen the amount of defenseman rookies next year is to give Sanguinetti some extended NHL time this year. Otherwise we are looking at 2 rookie D-man again.

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Old
01-11-2010, 12:08 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennglin13 View Post
A couple points to make here:

-If we dump Girardi that is going to force us to play ANOTHER rookie D-Man next year. As logical as it may seem to move Girardi, for a team with Hank and Gabby in their prime is this risk worth it??

-While it's true Prospal is getting older... remember how Straka was in the later years of his career. Why can't Prospal do the same thing? Maybe Gaborik is to Prospal what Jagr was to Straka

-While moving Higgins is smart, we are still a team in cap hell. Higgins is showing signs of life and will still be cheaper than anybody else we can get this off season.
-Guys the answer to clearing cap space is simple, send Redden or Rosy to the minors. (did I just contradict myself about the rookie D-man thing?)
nope.

with guys like dubi, drury and cally we have enough 3rd line energy mucker types already. i mean how many penalty killers do we need?

we need a true 1c. someone with enough speed and creativity to play with gaby. actually we need erik christensen to be the "real deal" and not the -flash in the pan 10 game guy who comes back to earth and goes 5 games without a point- like i think hes gonna. it would be great if he could keep this up though.

i like dubi at wing better and always have so hes not your future 1c. arty seems to be the future 2c for now.

if we resign prospal i play him with gaby and all we need is a true 1c for those 2.

next year ya gotta believe ev grachev will have a top 9 wing spot to grab not to mention enver lisin who is making solid progress and will be affordable as well. we have options at the wing.

we need a true impact centerman in the worst way and the higgins money we will save by not resigning him will help us there.

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Old
01-11-2010, 12:11 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennglin13 View Post
A couple points to make here:

-If we dump Girardi that is going to force us to play ANOTHER rookie D-Man next year. As logical as it may seem to move Girardi, for a team with Hank and Gabby in their prime is this risk worth it??

-While it's true Prospal is getting older... remember how Straka was in the later years of his career. Why can't Prospal do the same thing? Maybe Gaborik is to Prospal what Jagr was to Straka

-While moving Higgins is smart, we are still a team in cap hell. Higgins is showing signs of life and will still be cheaper than anybody else we can get this off season.

-Guys the answer to clearing cap space is simple, send Redden or Rosy to the minors. (did I just contradict myself about the rookie D-man thing?)
1. Yes
2. I think this comparison is way off base. Gaborik is currently making Erik Christiansen look like a talented player.
3. Hanging onto Chris Higgins and giving him a raise would still be a bad decision, even if its less of a bad decision than previous bad decisions.
4. Pipe dream. This is the real world. Dolan isnt throwing 25 million dollars worth of Redden into the minors to rot there for the duration. And Roszival is tradable this offseason.

In fact, if you can get rid of Prospal/Higgins/Girardi/Rozsival for picks, you've cleared the necessary cap space to sign Kovalchuk in the offseason if hes available come July 1st. And if hes not, you've picked up some picks and cleared up some of the cap mess. All while not ridding the organization of one player that consists of the core.

Getting rid of those 4 players without taking salary back is a bit of a tall order, but gaining assets for any one of them would be a step in the right direction.

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Old
01-11-2010, 12:18 PM
  #75
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I think the flaw with Brooks approach is that the guys you want to sell, you can't.

And it doesn't make sense to sell the players you want to keep, that defeats the whole point.

The Rangers challenge right now is that they may have to dump players they don't want to (Girardi), because they can't dump the guys like they'd like to (Redden, Rozy, etc.).

Personally, I'm interested to see where their discussions with Edmonton about Cogliano are.

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