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01-11-2010, 01:08 PM
  #101
Melrose_Jr.
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
That said, should we start losing again once we start facing tougher competition, we really have to look at dealing guys.
When is that? After the Devils, the Rangers have 6 consecutive games against teams below them in the standings. All 7 of these games are winnable.

And to be fair, they beat Boston twice last week. By Eastern Conference standards, they are the "tougher" competition.

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01-11-2010, 01:12 PM
  #102
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I'd rather think about this come the trade deadline.

The Rangers are playing well, and are currently in a playoff spot. If they have a collapse, then I say start acquiring draft picks.

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01-11-2010, 01:14 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I rarely agree with Brooks, but I'm with him on this one.
I proposed this in October based on my evaluation of the team's talent, and its inability to make a dent in the playoffs. I got venomous hate at the time, but I guess people were more optimistic than realistic about this roster.

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01-11-2010, 01:18 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
I proposed this in October based on my evaluation of the team's talent, and its inability to make a dent in the playoffs. I got venomous hate at the time, but I guess people were more optimistic than realistic about this roster.
Im curious to see what you posted in October.

Because Im willing to bet it wasnt exactly this scenario.

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01-11-2010, 01:21 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
A couple of thoughts...given the return the Isles got for Campoli and Comrie, would it be wrong to expect a late #1 in a Girardi/Higgins package? Also, would Phoenix, a team with playoffs, be looking at a veteran scorer like Prospal, and could he bring back Mueller?
I was thinking that Phoenix could be a good spot for Rosie. They can afford him times three under the cap. They have over $16 to spend. A greater concern for them would be salary, but he has only $7 over the last two years, which isn't bad. That he has only two years left on the contract is also very attractive because they wouldn't be stuck with a long term contract like they would with a UFA.

Nor would we ask for an arm and a leg for Rosie like someone would for a younger, cheaper defenseman of equivalent of ability.

I see no reason why Donnie won't give up a third rounder for him. Alternatively, maybe Rosie+Prospal for Mueller, though I believe he'll be a bust. He's worth a shot, but I have a bad feeling about the guy. He's regressed again this season.

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01-11-2010, 01:21 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
I proposed this in October based on my evaluation of the team's talent, and its inability to make a dent in the playoffs. I got venomous hate at the time, but I guess people were more optimistic than realistic about this roster.
The Devils finish 1st or close to 1st every year and have made roughly the same dent that we have in the playoffs since the lockout. Are they failures too? I think the Cup is *A LOT* harder to win when every team has to be mediocre because of the salary cap. That being said, I think every individual team has a better overall chance because the gap isn't all that large anymore. A hot team with confidence can do it and making the playoffs is the most important thing. Trading away core or top 6 players doesn't help achieve the goal and draft picks are a crap shoot. I'll take the playoffs any time over hope for the future.

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01-11-2010, 01:24 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
I proposed this in October based on my evaluation of the team's talent, and its inability to make a dent in the playoffs. I got venomous hate at the time, but I guess people were more optimistic than realistic about this roster.
Well, October is a bit early to be proposing a fire sale, don't you think? We're at the half way point now and I still don't think anyone knows what you can really expect from this team. However, I will concede that that fact alone begs the question, how do you improve the team?

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01-11-2010, 01:30 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
There's no way I agree with this if we're in a playoff spot if for nothing else than guys like Gilroy, Anisimov, Del Zotto, etc... need to play in the playoffs and gain experience..
This is the only intelligent argument for not selling I've seen here yet. All other stuff about, "but if we get in, we'll have a 0.00001% chance of winning the Cup" are nonsense.

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01-11-2010, 01:34 PM
  #109
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Prospal - Who is going to give away a good pick for him? He's 35 and he's doing well on this team when paired with the most dynamic player on the team, debatably in the league. How many of those assists are on Gaborik goals? I'd bet most of them. He's not the kind of player at this point in his career who is going to step in and make a line and take over the game, he compliments another great player and makes plays that no one else on this team is able to. I really don't think that he's worth what Brooks is suggesting to anyone but us. I'd take a 1st rounder for him, but I don't see that offer coming to be honest.

Higgins - Pretty expensive for his performance, not burying chances at all. Keeping or selling him isn't going to drastically change this team. Also, I can't imagine getting a good return for him but I'd be willing to part with him, even for a pick if it were pretty good.

Girardi - How much are we expecting for him to ask? He's been a pretty good d man and I'm not sure we want to get rid of one of the TWO experienced but not hideously overpaid d men on this team to bring up another rookie, giving us a d corps that is half rookies. I think we should hold onto him for dear life hoping to dump redden and/or rozy and free up the cap space and get an older, underperforming d off the roster. Bringing up a rookie to replace one of them, redden especially, is a step in the right direction while bringing up a rookie to replace Girardi just means that were going to need to bring in another one or two as soon as we can dump the huge d contracts, which should really be our first priority. I say hold onto him. Him and Staal have been holding it down recently and moving him especially for a pick is going to haunt us.

Lastly, Boston isn't bad. When we lose we're terrible, when we win the competition is terrible so we're still terrible. They're playing well and winning...be happy and embrace it for once. I don't know what you guys are expecting. This team isn't going to be a powerhouse that comes in every game and storms through collecting points at will. It's a competitive league. Teams lose. Stop whining and enjoy winning when you can.

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01-11-2010, 01:38 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Im curious to see what you posted in October.

Because Im willing to bet it wasnt exactly this scenario.
This is what I wrote on 10/7/09:

Quote:
"Let me use this moment when everyone is happy to call for a mini fire sale. I just don't want people to think that I am responding to a loss if I post it when the team is down.

I really wish that Sather traded Higgins, Kotalik, Prospal and Rosie at the trading deadline for a second rounder each. Based on what he did in 2004, it is not unreasonable.

The more excited I get about our youth, the more I wish we could actually add enough to it to make the team truly Stanley Cup quality in a few years. Plus, when the present crop matures and gets "adult" contract, we'll need cheap rookies.

If we have 6 picks in the first two rounds in 2010, it would be big for the franchise. Last time in 2004, we got at at least 2 players (Dubinsky and Korpikoski) plus another is on the way (Byers), as well as a 4th rounder in Callahan.

If we could pull off another three guys like Dubi, Cally and Korps, it would be excellent for the franchise. However, given the depth that already exists in the system, Slats would be able to go for high-risk, high-return guys like Savard and Dube. Hopefully, he'd pull out at least one superstar out of the 6 picks in the first two rounds or one of our later picks.

Oh well, I know it won't happen, but that's what I want. Ultimately, dealing away these 4 guys will guys will be better for the franchise than playing 5-6 more playoff games.

Again, I know it won't happen, but does anything think it might be a good idea towards the end of the season (obviously not now)?"
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=689144

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01-11-2010, 01:41 PM
  #111
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With all of the "Higgins on the 4th Line Predictions" why wouldn't you move Higgins for a 3rd? All signs are point to us not re-signing him anyway.

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01-11-2010, 01:42 PM
  #112
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Yeah let's sell so we can get draft picks from a contender that Sather can turn into more players like Dawes and Korpikoski. Please! On paper it sounds like a decent idea, but remember, Sather is the one who is using these picks to draft new people. Sure he hit with Del Zotto, but more often we end up picking garbage. If a fire sale came with a new GM, maybe it's worth considering...otherwise you'll end up having these Rangers miss the playoffs all so they can draft guys with futures as 3rd line wingers.

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01-11-2010, 01:50 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sousuffer View Post
Yeah let's sell so we can get draft picks from a contender that Sather can turn into more players like Dawes.
Yeah, who needs a guy like that. On pace for a career year and younger than Gilroy.

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01-11-2010, 01:54 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by sousuffer View Post
Yeah let's sell so we can get draft picks from a contender that Sather can turn into more players like Dawes and Korpikoski. Please! On paper it sounds like a decent idea, but remember, Sather is the one who is using these picks to draft new people. Sure he hit with Del Zotto, but more often we end up picking garbage. If a fire sale came with a new GM, maybe it's worth considering...otherwise you'll end up having these Rangers miss the playoffs all so they can draft guys with futures as 3rd line wingers.
The 08 Draft alone should tell you how valuable draft picks can be in our organization

MDZ - Stepan - Grachev

3 top 5 Prospects, in one draft

09 Wasn't to shabby either

Krieder - Werek - Borque

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01-11-2010, 01:55 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Not necessarily.

Tampa traded Prospal to Philly at the deadline a few years ago and he re-signed with the Lightning.

Tkachuk and Weight have done the same thing.
Didn't we trade Martin Rucinsky like 3 times and he returned the first two times?

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01-11-2010, 01:56 PM
  #116
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Well clearly, Dawes single handedly won the stanley cup for us last year. Role players like him are a dime a dozen- yes, some of them help. The true successful franchises are the ones that draft big time players with their picks and then go out and sign (or trade for) some of their role players from outside. We do the opposite- which is why we always ending up having to pay top dollar for every superstar we want. Parise is making $3-$4 this year. I'll bet Drury wouldn't hurt as much if we could sign a guy like him (Parise) for 3 or 4 million- but you can't- you have to draft them. Sather isn't capable of doing that unless he has a #1 or #2 pick.


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01-11-2010, 01:56 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
This is what I wrote on 10/7/09:
Yea, kind of like I thought. You got half the players right.

Roszival isnt going anywhere until the offseason, and Kotalik might be our worst contract behind Redden's. Hes not going anywhere either.

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01-11-2010, 01:58 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by SouvenirCity View Post
The 08 Draft alone should tell you how valuable draft picks can be in our organization

MDZ - Stepan - Grachev

3 top 5 Prospects, in one draft

09 Wasn't to shabby either

Krieder - Werek - Borque
I'll believe it when I see it. Until they make some impact on the major league level (not MDZ), they're just names- just like they were 3 years ago when everyone was talking about how amazing Korpikoski was going to be or 6 (maybe 7 or 8?) years ago with Malhotra.

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01-11-2010, 02:09 PM
  #119
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Too early.

Ask again later.

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01-11-2010, 02:46 PM
  #120
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Not moving all three of Prospal, Higgins and Girardi (and for the record, I expect maybe one of them will get moved at the most) will simply prove that Glen Sather STILL doesn't get how to run a team in a salary cap league. Not that that's in anyway surprising after the contract he gave Kotalik.

This completely asinine approach to running a team, this absurd refusal to accept the cyclical nature of professional sports, only continues to ensure that this team will never be strong enough to compete for a Stanley Cup.

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01-11-2010, 03:02 PM
  #121
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...and Kotalik might be our worst contract behind Redden's. Hes not going anywhere either.
True. Proving that Sather hasn't learned a damn thing. No one wanted Kotalik for 3m/3yrs.

Insane.

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01-11-2010, 03:14 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Kovalev27 View Post
completely unrealistic and precedent setting for a playoff team to sell at the trade deadline. that's asking glen sather to do something no one else in the league would do. sorry LB but you don't sell when you have a playoff spot ESPECIALLY in a weak conference. rangers can beat any top team in the east as it stands right now INCLUDING the caps who they should have beat last year without gaborik. this is just silly. no other GM in the league would do it why expect sather to?

and one more thing if the fanbase saw a team in the 5th spot in the EAST unload everyone and watch a freefall in the standings 95 percent would lose it and be calling for sather and tortorella's heads. not to mention the message it sends to guys like lundqvist and gaborik who want to win now.

I agree if the rangers stay around the 5th or 6th spot they actually need to try to improve this year team to make a playoff run. Maybe try adding a defensemen. Instead of dumping there tradeable players.

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01-11-2010, 04:00 PM
  #123
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Granted its undoubtedly harder, shouldn't they focus on trying to get rid of the ridiculous contracts instead of getting rid of players who Brooks somehow expects unrealistic returns for? Higgins I don't really care about, but if we trade prospal and girardi aren't we going to need an experienced playmaking center/winger and an experienced young d man? These guys aren't extra players that are filling roles that we already have other players for. Higgins is, obviously, but prospal and girardi are going to need to be replaced with two very similar guys. Why get rid of them? Try to get rid of redden and rozy and to a slightly lesser extent, drury, before trying to dump propsal and girardi for picks. Give girardi whatever he wants within reason, he's not a rookie and doesn't have an absurd contract, him and staal are the only players on this defense that both of those things are true for. We need them both desperately. I'd only consider getting rid of either of them if a team were willing to take redden or rozy too and honestly, I'd get rid of a lot of people on this team if someone were going to take either of them also.

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01-11-2010, 04:10 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
When is that? After the Devils, the Rangers have 6 consecutive games against teams below them in the standings. All 7 of these games are winnable.

And to be fair, they beat Boston twice last week. By Eastern Conference standards, they are the "tougher" competition.
Well, one of the issues with Boston right now is they're missing their top 2 centers...

The last rangers game they had a wing centering for almost a whole period, so that's a game I'd expect the rangers to win.

Regardless, we've definitely stepped up our game since that embarrassing home loss to the islanders. 8-1-3 is nothing to sneeze at. And other then that flyers game (which was another extremely embarrassing loss.. to get shut out 6 nothing), the effort level has been there.

Even the 1-2 SO loss at atlanta was a well played game. The defense was NOT slacking. Yes, we made a mistake with that boneheaded line change.. but it happens.. If we played like we were a few weeks ago we would not have gotten a point that game.

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01-11-2010, 04:22 PM
  #125
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This team was lucky they hit the soft part of their schedule the last 12 games or so. If they played more top teams in the league, the season could be over right now. They need to sell, can you see this team going far with Redden and Rozy on defense. They will be exposed against the good teams again, just wait. Also, getting rid of Higgins (if you can) is no big deal. I could see keeping Prospal just because you may want to re-sign him next season and trading him away at the deadline might leave some bad blood. If you could get a 2nd for Girardi, i would definitly trade him.

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