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01-11-2010, 01:07 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
I agree Leighton is playing well over his expectations, and both you and I will not know if he can come up with wins down the stretch or in the playoffs (if it ever comes down to it).
If it ever comes down to it...we're F'd. He sucks. Even while he's getting wins and putting up good numbers right now, he looks atrocious with consistency on rebound control. If you get into a playoff situation, teams are going to see it, and have time to cater their game to throwing pucks at his pads and ripping rebound one-timers in from the slot.

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That's my point. It doesn't matter if you come in cold or not. It is an excuses.
This is classic turning an "excuse" into a dirty word...when, in reality, you're simply talking about a contextual factor. No goalie deserves to be blasted for struggling coming in during the middle of the game...particularly when they haven't played in two weeks, and spent some of that time not practicing due to injury.

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Ok I will give points to getting more time in warmups, but I'm sure there was not that large of a discrepancy because there was and is no #1 at the moment.
Sure there was...Leighton was the starter against Ottawa, so they were concentrating on warming him up, not Boucher. If there wasn't a discrepancy on game day in Ottawa, then that's rather confusing...Leighton was supposed to play, Boucher wasn't. Boucher was in because Leighton looked like a complete turd in that game (interesting that Leighton gets off the hook for that game...).

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We can always play the what if game till the cows come home, but like I said before I do not think he is our #1. Emery will take over, but he has shown he can at least compete for #2.
But we're not going to have the luxury of holding him around to let him compete...when bodies come back, we're going to have to dump one of the goalies because of the salary cap. Based on their track record, and even what I'm seeing now, I don't want to dump Boucher for Leighton.

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Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
ride Leighton until he turns on the suck.
He is winning and giving the Flyers a chance to win every single night. That said the Flyers are going to have to make a decision on this eventually. There are CBA rules regarding conditioning stints in the AHL and I dont think they want to carry 3 goalies on the roster.
Well, the word is they're holding 3 until Parent comes back from injury...so they will have a little bit of time to figure it out.

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01-11-2010, 01:21 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
If it ever comes down to it...we're F'd. He sucks. Even while he's getting wins and putting up good numbers right now, he looks atrocious with consistency on rebound control. If you get into a playoff situation, teams are going to see it, and have time to cater their game to throwing pucks at his pads and ripping rebound one-timers in from the slot.
Yes I agree, but it probably won't be much different with Booch.


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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
This is classic turning an "excuse" into a dirty word...when, in reality, you're simply talking about a contextual factor. No goalie deserves to be blasted for struggling coming in during the middle of the game...particularly when they haven't played in two weeks, and spent some of that time not practicing due to injury.
I'm not blasting him solely on that performance, maybe if he stung up 2 wins in a row we would be talking differently. What I am saying is Leighton has played better, and in the end has given us better results.


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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Sure there was...Leighton was the starter against Ottawa, so they were concentrating on warming him up, not Boucher. If there wasn't a discrepancy on game day in Ottawa, then that's rather confusing...Leighton was supposed to play, Boucher wasn't. Boucher was in because Leighton looked like a complete turd in that game (interesting that Leighton gets off the hook for that game...).
Leighton may not have played well. The first goal was a hard one to follow, but the second goal was all Leighton's fault. He let 2 goals in and got pulled, so who knows if he could have played better after he got warmed up right? ;p

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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
But we're not going to have the luxury of holding him around to let him compete...when bodies come back, we're going to have to dump one of the goalies because of the salary cap. Based on their track record, and even what I'm seeing now, I don't want to dump Boucher for Leighton.
So then at what point do you think he should replace Booch? I mean does he have to be 15-0-1, post 3 more shutouts and have a .980 SV%?

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01-11-2010, 01:36 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
So then at what point do you think he should replace Booch? I mean does he have to be 15-0-1, post 3 more shutouts and have a .980 SV%?
You're right, it's not going to be easy. I don't think he looks very good positionally even in this run we're in right now...I think his rebound control is terrible...and I've seen him in enough games previously to have an already developed low opinion of him.

It would be one thing if he was winning games and none of the traits that so cost him previously were not there...but they're all there, just for whatever reason pucks aren't getting buried right now. Boucher has the annoying trait of blocking the puck with his glove hand and not catching it, but if you throw a puck at Leighton's pads there's like a 50% chance he's going to put it right into the slot.

He's hot right now...and just like the dude who hits .450 the first few weeks of the baseball season, this too shall pass.

I'd rather have Boucher. Over their respective careers he's been the better goalie, is a serviceable backup, and I have better faith in him if I'm looking past this week.

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01-11-2010, 02:13 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I'd rather have Boucher. Over their respective careers he's been the better goalie, is a serviceable backup, and I have better faith in him if I'm looking past this week.
What does what Boucher did in year's past have to do with future peformance? What matters is the present and, presently, Leighton is playing better with better results.

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01-11-2010, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
What does what Boucher did in year's past have to do with future peformance? What matters is the present and, presently, Leighton is playing better with better results.
Boucher gives you a much larger sample size to view.

Also, in a technical sense, Boucher is a better goalie. Not quite as good at making the first stop but much better with rebound control. Leighton is standing on the shoulders of giants right now. The defense has been stellar... absolutely stellar.

Neither goalie is anything close to a starter in this league, but I value consistency in a backup over the ability to get hot and thrive on lucky bounces and defensive clears.

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01-11-2010, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
What does what Boucher did in year's past have to do with future peformance? What matters is the present and, presently, Leighton is playing better with better results.
You're 100% correct but everyone is speculating about the future. In the future who is going to be the better backup? That's the issue.

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01-11-2010, 02:22 PM
  #82
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If you’re wondering whether the Flyers can send Emery back for another conditioning assignment, they can request it.

Under the CBA, the Flyers had a maximum window of six days to get him three games of work in the AHL. Except the Phantoms don’t play again until Wednesday.

Rather than waste Emery sitting around, the Flyers brought Emery back on Sunday to continue his rehab here.

If the club feels Emery needs more work, it can request another conditioning stay from the NHL and wait for approval.

However, Holmgren said that Emery will remain here, continue to be re-evaluated as to his playing status, and that the club will go with three goalies once he is activated.

“Facing 14 shots, you’re probably right [about lack of work], but it’s all about the game, playing 60 minute, being sharp, being ready it’s about those things, too,” Holmgren said.
“We wouldn’t consider sending him back, not for Wednesday.

“We’ll see how it goes now. He’s close to be activated. We’ll activate him either today or tomorrow.”

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01-11-2010, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
You're 100% correct but everyone is speculating about the future. In the future who is going to be the better backup? That's the issue.
There's a good chance that Biron has trouble finding a job next season since Halak is going to take a starting spot with possibly a few other young goalies also possibly taking jobs. So, if he is jobless, he'd be an extremely effective backup.

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01-11-2010, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
“We’ll see how it goes now. He’s close to be activated. We’ll activate him either today or tomorrow.”
For cap reasons, wouldn't you wait until his first start to activate him? Or are there restrictions on what he can do with the team if he isn't activated?

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01-11-2010, 02:30 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
What does what Boucher did in year's past have to do with future peformance? What matters is the present and, presently, Leighton is playing better with better results.
When you're talking about making a decision about waiving a guy and potentially permanently losing him...then future performance is precisely what you should be taking into account. I have no problem with and completely agree that riding Leighton while he's hot makes sense presently, but that doesn't mean I would choose him for the rest of the season over Boucher (who is also signed into next season, btw).

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There's a good chance that Biron has trouble finding a job next season since Halak is going to take a starting spot with possibly a few other young goalies also possibly taking jobs. So, if he is jobless, he'd be an extremely effective backup.
Given that Biron moved his family back up to Buffalo...I can't see him signing on to be the backup here. Of course, who knows what our starting goalie situation will be next year.

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01-11-2010, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Given that Biron moved his family back up to Buffalo...I can't see him signing on to be the backup here. Of course, who knows what our starting goalie situation will be next year.
Biron is in no position to choose where to play. I expect he'll graciously take any reasonable offer with the deciding factor between two competing offers the chances of him being the starter or not. He's going to stay up nights for years knowing that he probably ruined his career by letting his agent **** with the Flyers.

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01-11-2010, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
Biron is in no position to choose where to play. I expect he'll graciously take any reasonable offer with the deciding factor between two competing offers the chances of him being the starter or not. He's going to stay up nights for years knowing that he probably ruined his career by letting his agent **** with the Flyers.
Right, but Buffalo would probably welcome him back with open arms at this point...so if he's signing to be a backup, I would look for him to sign there rather than here.

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01-11-2010, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
Boucher gives you a much larger sample size to view.

Also, in a technical sense, Boucher is a better goalie. Not quite as good at making the first stop but much better with rebound control. Leighton is standing on the shoulders of giants right now. The defense has been stellar... absolutely stellar.

Neither goalie is anything close to a starter in this league, but I value consistency in a backup over the ability to get hot and thrive on lucky bounces and defensive clears.
We can agree to disagree about Boucher's rebound control. I think his rebound control this year has been abysmal.

I agree that neither goalie is a starter in the NHL, but I do think that Leighton has the potential to be a good backup in this league for years to come. On the other hand I think Boucher's career is on the decline (thus my reasoning for saying that Boucher's past performance is irrelevant when talking about the future).

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01-11-2010, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
We can agree to disagree about Boucher's rebound control. I think his rebound control this year has been abysmal.

I agree that neither goalie is a starter in the NHL, but I do think that Leighton has the potential to be a good backup in this league for years to come. On the other hand I think Boucher's career is on the decline (thus my reasoning for saying that Boucher's past performance is irrelevant when talking about the future).
Leighton's not exactly young anymore either.

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01-11-2010, 02:58 PM
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They are both mediocre goalies, and backups at best.

One thing that makes me lean leighton is that his caphit is 300k where as Boucher makes 925k. And since Dunce Paul lost Jones on re-entry that extra 600k could help for a deadline acquisition

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01-11-2010, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
We can agree to disagree about Boucher's rebound control. I think his rebound control this year has been abysmal.
It has been, I don't understand why Boucher is incapable of actually catching the puck with his glovehand. However, he doesn't spit 'em into the slot the way Leighton does.

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I agree that neither goalie is a starter in the NHL, but I do think that Leighton has the potential to be a good backup in this league for years to come. On the other hand I think Boucher's career is on the decline (thus my reasoning for saying that Boucher's past performance is irrelevant when talking about the future).
We're talking about 18 months into the future, not 5 years...we really think Boucher is going to fall off the cliff in that run?

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01-11-2010, 03:00 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
They are both mediocre goalies, and backups at best.

One thing that makes me lean leighton is that his caphit is 300k where as Boucher makes 925k. And since Dunce Paul lost Jones on re-entry that extra 600k could help for a deadline acquisition
If Leighton goes back to being the Leighton we've seen previously...and Emery is out...no deadline acquisition will save us, unless it's another goalie.

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01-11-2010, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
If Leighton goes back to being the Leighton we've seen previously...and Emery is out...no deadline acquisition will save us, unless it's another goalie.
Sadly, if Emery doesn't return to early season form we are jolly well ****ed. And it also means we'd get traderaped for any goalie that would give us a reasonable chance to win in the playoffs.

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01-11-2010, 03:07 PM
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Leighton's not exactly young anymore either.
4 years younger than Boucher is.

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01-11-2010, 03:09 PM
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Boucher is the better technical goalie, and in an ideal world I'd like to see what he can do with this improved defense. Emery is the starter (and I'd really like to see him get in net sooner than later), and we only need one of the two remaining to be a backup obviously, but coming back from injury we can't dump the same workload on Razor that we were previously.

Technical flaws like inconsistent rebound control aside, Leighton has been doing enough to put the team in a position to win, and to win regularly. That's all you can ask of someone in a backup spot, but will he be able to do it when he hasn't been starting the majority of the games?

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01-11-2010, 03:11 PM
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It has been, I don't understand why Boucher is incapable of actually catching the puck with his glovehand. However, he doesn't spit 'em into the slot the way Leighton does.
No, he saves that for his leg saves that he kicks straight out.

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Originally Posted by Jester
We're talking about 18 months into the future, not 5 years...we really think Boucher is going to fall off the cliff in that run?
Not sure, but I'm happy with Leighton's play and would like to see him continue to work with Reese to see if he could be a mainstay as the Flyers backup for the next few seasons.

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01-11-2010, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
4 years younger than Boucher is.
Yeah, but he'll be 29 at the end of the season and his name isn't Tim Thomas. He is what he is. Mediocre. Boucher is what he is... and that's slightly more consistently mediocre.

You need to assume that our backup may have to play in the playoffs. You go for experience and someone who has been there before.

When Parent decides to piece his carcass back together, Leighton gets a hearty handshake and a bus ticket out of town.

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01-11-2010, 03:12 PM
  #98
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Sadly, if Emery doesn't return to early season form we are jolly well ****ed. And it also means we'd get traderaped for any goalie that would give us a reasonable chance to win in the playoffs.
Especially given our lack of most useful draft picks for such trades (Go Homer!). That being said, the Boucher I would expect to see (and we've seen for the most part here) can keep you in games and afloat. The Leighton I would expect to see (and have not seen here to this point) can't keep you in games and afloat. So, that's a big factor here...I've seen enough of Leighton previously, and am unimpressed with him enough still that I just don't trust him...at all.

And, right, I wouldn't expect to accomplish much of anything with Boucher...but the guy has proven himself an adequate NHL goalie, which is something Leighton hasn't done to this point in his career.

Lets hope Emery comes back, finds his solid early season form, and enjoys a healthy rest of the year.

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01-11-2010, 03:14 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
No, he saves that for his leg saves that he kicks straight out.
You say this as if Leighton doesn't do this with consistency...

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Not sure, but I'm happy with Leighton's play and would like to see him continue to work with Reese to see if he could be a mainstay as the Flyers backup for the next few seasons.
I would have no problem with this if we weren't dealing with a decision that will have potential point-of-no-return consequences. You waive either guy and (as Leighton can attest from experience) there's a very good chance they won't be in the organization anymore.

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01-11-2010, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
Yeah, but he'll be 29 at the end of the season and his name isn't Tim Thomas. He is what he is. Mediocre. Boucher is what he is... and that's slightly more consistently mediocre.

You need to assume that our backup may have to play in the playoffs. You go for experience and someone who has been there before.

When Parent decides to piece his carcass back together, Leighton gets a hearty handshake and a bus ticket out of town.
Funny a lot of people thought that Tim Thomas and Craig Anderson were mediocre as they bounced around until they were in their late 20's. But when given a legitimate opportunity they took it and developed into solid NHL goaltenders. I'm certainly not saying that Leighton (former teammate of Anderson) will, but I'm willing to give him a shot as the backup for the rest of this season.

As for Boucher, he's actually consistently inconsistent. He can stand on his head for a stretch and then look like a beer league goalie for a stretch.

As for "someone who has been there before" for the playoffs, Cam Ward certainly did well in his maiden voyage in the playoffs and Varlamov did pretty well last year. And, oh yeah, Ray Emery did ok in his first run in the playoffs as well. I'm sorry, but the fact that Boucher played in the playoffs 10 years ago doesn't mean much to me.

I'd be happy to wager a beer that once Parent is back that Leighton stays and Boucher is waived.

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